Cutting Gets Easier?

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keithcw_the_first
keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
I ran numbers, based on some conservative estimates of what I could gain in terms of fat and muscle.

To get back down to pre-bulk BF%, I would have to lose less weight. So is that the key to the nonchalant attitude regarding "meh just cut down afterwards"? The fact that with more lean mass, you can cut on more calories and all that? It's an attractive proposition for sure.

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  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    keithcw_the_first wrote: »
    I ran numbers, based on some conservative estimates of what I could gain in terms of fat and muscle.

    To get back down to pre-bulk BF%, I would have to lose less weight. So is that the key to the nonchalant attitude regarding "meh just cut down afterwards"? The fact that with more lean mass, you can cut on more calories and all that? It's an attractive proposition for sure.

    It's probably part of the equation, the other part is probably work capacity increase.

    http://swolesister.com/2013/08/24/the-myth-of-metabolic-capacity/
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    So if your deadlift goes up by... I don't know, 50 lbs, then your work capacity increases and on cutting, you're in a place where your same three days at the gym (or five or whatever) are going to require more calories than where you were?
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    edited April 2015
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    keithcw_the_first wrote: »
    So if your deadlift goes up by... I don't know, 50 lbs, then your work capacity increases and on cutting, you're in a place where your same three days at the gym (or five or whatever) are going to require more calories than where you were?

    I would think of it more so in terms of if you were working at "x" volume before, and you are working at "x" volume now; your overall work capacity has increased. In order to continue to build upon or maintain that level of performance, your caloric needs are higher than when you would've started (ideally).

    Edit - That may be worded very poorly...
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    LolBroScience wrote: »
    keithcw_the_first wrote: »
    So if your deadlift goes up by... I don't know, 50 lbs, then your work capacity increases and on cutting, you're in a place where your same three days at the gym (or five or whatever) are going to require more calories than where you were?

    I would think of it more so in terms of if you were working at "x" volume before, and you are working at "x" volume now; your overall work capacity has increased. In order to continue to build upon or maintain that level of performance, your caloric needs are higher than when you would've started (ideally).

    Edit - That may be worded very poorly...

    No no, I think I get you. Picking deadlift was a specific and probably poor example.

    You bulk, you get stronger (probably), your work volume (probably, hopefully) increases. Now maintaining that higher volume on a cut requires more calories than requiring your pre-bulk work volume would.

  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    keithcw_the_first wrote: »
    LolBroScience wrote: »
    keithcw_the_first wrote: »
    So if your deadlift goes up by... I don't know, 50 lbs, then your work capacity increases and on cutting, you're in a place where your same three days at the gym (or five or whatever) are going to require more calories than where you were?

    I would think of it more so in terms of if you were working at "x" volume before, and you are working at "x" volume now; your overall work capacity has increased. In order to continue to build upon or maintain that level of performance, your caloric needs are higher than when you would've started (ideally).

    Edit - That may be worded very poorly...

    No no, I think I get you. Picking deadlift was a specific and probably poor example.

    You bulk, you get stronger (probably), your work volume (probably, hopefully) increases. Now maintaining that higher volume on a cut requires more calories than requiring your pre-bulk work volume would.

    Exactly. I would assume that accounts for the majority of the caloric increase. The additional LBM contributes, but it probably isn't as significant as the increased work capacity.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    I wouldn't say it's "mentally" easier- but yeah in theory you can technically eat a little more. Which is nice.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
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    Increased work capacity,
    Hormone balance.
    Increased BMR.
    Often NEAT is increased.
    Better body composition.

    Getting down to pre-bulk body fat means that you don't have to get down to pre-bulk weight. Each pound lost is a higher percentage of body fat than if you didn't gain lean mass.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    Awesome, thanks! That's encouraging for when I inevitably have to cut again.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    usmcmp wrote: »
    Getting down to pre-bulk body fat means that you don't have to get down to pre-bulk weight. Each pound lost is a higher percentage of body fat than if you didn't gain lean mass.

    this.... is hard to explain to people (esp none lifters) your words... they be good.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    JoRocka wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    Getting down to pre-bulk body fat means that you don't have to get down to pre-bulk weight. Each pound lost is a higher percentage of body fat than if you didn't gain lean mass.

    this.... is hard to explain to people (esp none lifters) your words... they be good.

    I'm an Excel nerd; when I put the numbers into a spreadsheet and projected x pounds of gain in lean mass and fat and so forth, it was really eye opening. You could look the same at a heavier weight, or look leaner at the same weight. It's really incredible if you can keep your GAINZ during a cut.

    Which seems to involve switching bread for protein powder.

    Kidding. But I have noticed that it's easy to hit my macros without supplements now, and it was much difficult to get the protein I needed without a few scoops of whey when attempting a cut.
  • SteveJWatson
    SteveJWatson Posts: 1,225 Member
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    I find cutting is "easier" because you have done it before and know what you have to stick to...

    I'm on my third cut now and I hardly log, the weight is coming off at 1-1.5lbs/week... Easy.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    keithcw_the_first wrote: »
    Which seems to involve switching bread for protein powder.

    it's funny because it's true LMAO... kidding- not kidding.

    I totally don't eat bread any more either... mostly because I can eat my daily allowance in bread.

    damn you slow metabolism and inferior female genetics.
  • SteveJWatson
    SteveJWatson Posts: 1,225 Member
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    I mostly eat bread as my carb source because I live by myself and I can't be arsed to make pasta/potatoes.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    SteveJWatson wrote: »
    I mostly eat bread as my carb source because I live by myself and I can't be arsed to make pasta/potatoes.

    ice cream and popcorn are my two main sources of carbs.

    i'm not even sorry.
  • SteveJWatson
    SteveJWatson Posts: 1,225 Member
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    I'm more of a savoury kind of bloke...

  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
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    I make a big batch of rice and mix it with vegetables and meat for lunches. Less cooking for lunch for several days.

    I think this cut is easier than my last because calories are higher, I've done it before (experience in getting the most bang for my buck along with still getting candy/ice cream), and the higher intake for 16 months helped me fix some of my binge eating issues.
  • Cortelli
    Cortelli Posts: 1,369 Member
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    usmcmp wrote: »
    Increased work capacity,
    Hormone balance.
    Increased BMR.
    Often NEAT is increased.
    Better body composition.

    Getting down to pre-bulk body fat means that you don't have to get down to pre-bulk weight. Each pound lost is a higher percentage of body fat than if you didn't gain lean mass.

    Came in to comment but I'll just go with ^^^ this; and
    SteveJWatson wrote:
    I find cutting is "easier" because you have done it before and know what you have to stick to...

    ^^^ this too.
  • irridia
    irridia Posts: 528 Member
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    My working weight is almost at what my 1 rep max for dead squats (trap bar, easier on my joints) was about a month and a half ago. I keep reading that HIIT is the best bet for cutting, and it worked really well when that was all I was doing. I spent a little time doing it on my off days and ended up with hip flexor issues. What I'm wondering is, should I progressively move into HIIT only, keep working on gaining strength, or do maintenance lifts and HIIT on non leg days? (doing splits because I really need more recovery time especially for anything involving hip flexors and ITB [iliotibial band] issues.) My BF is still high. The only 1rep max I remember is the dead squats and that was 195. Working weight is 190. Benches and rows are at 90. OHP stalled at 68. Farmer's carry is at 135 for a hundred yards with 2 stops. Oh, also I find I have a hard time getting enough protein and am not terribly hungry until the day after a hard workout. I have to make progress this year on cutting.

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