Food as a addiction?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »Did conquering my trigger foods come over night? No. I had to give them up for a long time. I had to do some work on myself and learn a lot. But it's possible.
congratulations! I think you're experience is typical, not giving it any discredit! It takes a long time to get to where you ended up, like you said. I think it's possible to consider that some people might not get to where you got or might feel it's too slippery of a slope to go back to their trigger foods. Not impossible. Just not for everyone. If someone makes a decision to give up sugar for health reasons because some foods are difficult to control for them, I applaud them for trying to make a change. Also, more cookies for me. I, too, would like for OP to be able to enjoy a cookie without the guilt or the fear, but that's not my decision.
Well, it's one thing to give up sugar for a time as a step on the road to dealing with it in a more sane way.
It's another thing to cling to the idea that you're addicted to it and have no responsibility in your behavior with it.
The first step to lasting change with an issue with food is to own that YOU'RE the problem.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »My therapist said I was not a binge eater. Even though in my past life I could get through a loaf of bread, easily, in a day. Mine I think was more automatic or mindless eating.
I think the binge eat is when the person resists for so long the body just sort of takes over and there's a mad rush to cram food in. It is quite irresistible. I am describing it when I haven't lived inside it. I think I saw it once on the subway. A sad anorexic with a box of sugar free gelatin cups in her lap. When I looked away she polished them all off. When I looked back there was an empty box of gelatin treats in her lap. She still looked sad.
Once I got a handle on my control issues OUTSIDE OF FOOD, the bingeing stopped. Had it been physical in nature, like a heroin addiction, that would not have been the case.
While I never faced the issues you faced, the part I bolded really resonated with me, because that was key for me as well. A lot of my emotional issues manifested themselves in ways that had nothing to do with food. Food was just one coping mechanism, and a sign of a larger problem.
Exactly. I don't know the psychological connection with overeating. But I do know that anorexia/bulimia are control disorders. For anorexics, the ability to control one's diet is the coping method for a life that is (or feels) out of control. Bulimics, on the other hand, practice the art of losing control (bingeing) and then regaining control (purging) - that's why the purge is so empowering. Obsessive compulsive disorders run in my family. I do believe OCDs have something to do with why some people are more prone to eating disorders than others. I also believe that there is a difference between disordered eating and a full-blown eating disorder that requires medical intervention.
I'd be fascinated to learn more about the overeating side of the ED coin. As you say, it's a coping mechanism.
I would imagine that for just your everyday overeater there are probably a lot of different psychological reasons.
I only know mine. Food was a coping mechanism developed to deal with emotions that sprang up during childhood (distant parents and childhood sexual abuse) because the emotions were too overwhelming to deal with at that age. Eating sort of soothed them and tamped them down. That overstuffed, full feeling felt calming.
I hid from my emotions and was afraid of them for years. They'd make me anxious and felt overwhelming.
Once I realized on the inside that I was no longer a child and that I could cope with what came my way, a lot of things started to fall into place in my life. That realization took me until I was 50 to get to!
I was still left with my bad behavior around food, though. I had no idea about portion size, and had a lot to learn about how much I could eat for my height and age.
My weight was the LAST piece of the puzzle.
Your last two replies are smth everyone should read, as they are the perfect description on food triggers and how to learn to cope with them. Sometimes, it makes it easier knowing someone else went through the same thing, and succeeded.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Binge eating is an actual disorder, it has nothing to do with the amount of food within a period of time. It comes with things like immense guilt, hiding, hoarding, loss of control, avoiding social life or certain activities in order to binge, having compulsive thoughts, anxiety, behaviors protective of the binge so it isn't noticed in fear of being encouraged to solve the problem... etc. It has nothing to do with the type of food either. A person diagnosed with the disorder just wants to shove things into their mouth regardless if they like it or not. I'm closely familiar with the situation, and the person who had it would start eating sticks of butter and drinking condiments if that's what he happened to reach for. It's a life destroying disorder. People who overindulge and claim to be binge eaters have no idea how horrible actual binge eating is.
Yeah, this. I'm not a binge eater at all (I overate plenty, though, and still can), and how lightly it gets used on MFP drives me crazy sometimes (ana, I don't mean you, but the usual overeating=binge terminology).
I do think there are much closer ties between binge eating disorder and addiction than between the "I like sugar so overeat" things that usually get called addiction or even emotional or stress eating, which I also do. (When people talk about bingeing it sounds a ton like the control issues I had around booze, in part. I indulged in emotional eating in part as a way of compensating for not drinking, but it wasn't ever the same in that way--sure, I was stuffing my emotions, but people who do that can do it in lots of different ways, the physical element was different.)
One thing that seems significant about bingeing to me is that it's not about enjoying the food (which does seem related to the extreme amounts of food).
That BED is a real disorder says nothing about whether run of the mill overeating is a disorder or whether sugar (or whatever) is addictive.0 -
There's no code in the ICD-9-CM (which has a code for every accepted medical condition) for food addiction. There is, however, a code for eating disorder.0
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2snakeswoman wrote: »There's no code in the ICD-9-CM (which has a code for every accepted medical condition) for food addiction. There is, however, a code for eating disorder.
I believe it's covered in other eating disorders.0 -
2snakeswoman wrote: »There's no code in the ICD-9-CM (which has a code for every accepted medical condition) for food addiction. There is, however, a code for eating disorder.
I believe it's covered in other eating disorders.
Overeating Disorder or Binge Eating Disorder may be covered, but not food addiction. Because food addiction has not been proven.
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2snakeswoman wrote: »There's no code in the ICD-9-CM (which has a code for every accepted medical condition) for food addiction. There is, however, a code for eating disorder.
I believe it's covered in other eating disorders.
Overeating Disorder or Binge Eating Disorder may be covered, but not food addiction. Because food addiction has not been proven.
I'm sorry I thought she said binge eating . I need to take a nap. You're right, I don't believe people can be addicted to food but it's used like an emotional crutch.0 -
2snakeswoman wrote: »There's no code in the ICD-9-CM (which has a code for every accepted medical condition) for food addiction. There is, however, a code for eating disorder.
I believe it's covered in other eating disorders.
Overeating Disorder or Binge Eating Disorder may be covered, but not food addiction. Because food addiction has not been proven.
I'm sorry I thought she said binge eating . I need to take a nap. You're right, I don't believe people can be addicted to food but it's used like an emotional crutch.
Agreed. Why don't adults get naptime? I'll never understand.
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It seems that people believe addiction is "I like it so much that I keep doing it even though it's not good for me." That is not the definition of addiction.0
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So much to comment on......Good for you for knowing that it was your coping strategies that led to bringing food back into your life that you know is harmful to you as well as something you are addicted to.
To those who question if sugar is addictive research studies have shows that sugar (especially processed sugar) is as addictive or more addictive that heroin and cocaine....1 example of many....http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/10/16/research-shows-cocaine-and-heroin-are-less-addictive-than-oreos/
And addiction to substance is very individual and personal. Not everyone who smokes a cigarette likes it or becomes addicted to it. Not everyone has the same reactions to sugar as others. Not everyone who stresses out turns to food. Not everyone who uses marijuana or alcohol or other substances continue to do so or become addicted and don't want to stop. This is her experience, this is her addiction and just because you don't have the same addiction or the same reaction to sugar as she does does not mean it is not real to her and others.
And to the pseudo-psychiatrists/counselors in the group, the DSM-V (the most recent DSM manual available) does include Binge Eating Disorder and is classified under the category of substance-abuse disorder....which shows that this is an addictive type of disorder. So you are wrong when discussing this.
I'm a clinically licensed therapist and know that food addiction is a physically real occurrence and that this is categorized is the diagnostic community being in the same realm as drug addiction.....per the professionals.
Congrats on knowing what your triggers are and if cutting out certain foods because of addiction, willpower or whatever is what you need then do so and don't listen to the naysayers who don't understand.
Alright, if we are throwing around degrees. I am a PhD in Psychology and specifically trained in the treatment of eating disorders and obesity and this is also my area of research. a) Binge Eating Disorder is classified in DSM-V under Feeding and Eating disorders. b) If food addiction exists, it is thought to be a subset of people with BED who would have food addiction. BED does not equal food addiction. However the science is definitely not settled on this at all. Food addiction is simply a model with very mixed support. There was recently a big review suggesting no evidence for a physiological addiction to foods.
Like I stated, the science is not settled. It is possible that food addiction exists, but even if that is the case, it does not necessarily mean that an abstinence approach is going to be ideal. Even in the treatment of substance abuse, many people are able to find success with non-abstinence approaches. With food, abstinence is quite convoluted since we eat every day and if you take the approach of eliminating certain foods/nutrients they are still very likely to be prevalent in the environment. Coming from an eating disorders perspective, we commonly see that the elimination of foods can increase the belief that you are powerless over that food and/or that that food is "bad" and there is something shameful in eating it, which only serves to increase anxiety and lessen self-efficacy.0 -
girlviernes wrote: »So much to comment on......Good for you for knowing that it was your coping strategies that led to bringing food back into your life that you know is harmful to you as well as something you are addicted to.
To those who question if sugar is addictive research studies have shows that sugar (especially processed sugar) is as addictive or more addictive that heroin and cocaine....1 example of many....http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/10/16/research-shows-cocaine-and-heroin-are-less-addictive-than-oreos/
And addiction to substance is very individual and personal. Not everyone who smokes a cigarette likes it or becomes addicted to it. Not everyone has the same reactions to sugar as others. Not everyone who stresses out turns to food. Not everyone who uses marijuana or alcohol or other substances continue to do so or become addicted and don't want to stop. This is her experience, this is her addiction and just because you don't have the same addiction or the same reaction to sugar as she does does not mean it is not real to her and others.
And to the pseudo-psychiatrists/counselors in the group, the DSM-V (the most recent DSM manual available) does include Binge Eating Disorder and is classified under the category of substance-abuse disorder....which shows that this is an addictive type of disorder. So you are wrong when discussing this.
I'm a clinically licensed therapist and know that food addiction is a physically real occurrence and that this is categorized is the diagnostic community being in the same realm as drug addiction.....per the professionals.
Congrats on knowing what your triggers are and if cutting out certain foods because of addiction, willpower or whatever is what you need then do so and don't listen to the naysayers who don't understand.
Alright, if we are throwing around degrees. I am a PhD in Psychology and specifically trained in the treatment of eating disorders and obesity and this is also my area of research. a) Binge Eating Disorder is classified in DSM-V under Feeding and Eating disorders. b) If food addiction exists, it is thought to be a subset of people with BED who would have food addiction. BED does not equal food addiction. However the science is definitely not settled on this at all. Food addiction is simply a model with very mixed support. There was recently a big review suggesting no evidence for a physiological addiction to foods.
Like I stated, the science is not settled. It is possible that food addiction exists, but even if that is the case, it does not necessarily mean that an abstinence approach is going to be ideal. Even in the treatment of substance abuse, many people are able to find success with non-abstinence approaches. With food, abstinence is quite convoluted since we eat every day and if you take the approach of eliminating certain foods/nutrients they are still very likely to be prevalent in the environment. Coming from an eating disorders perspective, we commonly see that the elimination of foods can increase the belief that you are powerless over that food and/or that that food is "bad" and there is something shameful in eating it, which only serves to increase anxiety and lessen self-efficacy.
+1
Bonus +1 for use of "efficacy." Love it.
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I'm not a professional so I can't say whether it's a true addiction but what I do know is that I'm involved in a 12-step group and people do find the group helpful for what they consider to be a food addiction. For those of you who believe they have an addiction perhaps a 12-step group may help
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BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive0 -
BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
Because calling people horrible is so kind....
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BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
So supportive means not challenging statements that you think are at best false and quite possibly harmful? Okay.
This is the "food and nutrition" forum also, and thus is for the discussion of topics about food and nutrition. We can't do that if we aren't permitted to challenge facts that we think are wrong--and OP stated that he/she was posting to challenge other facts that had been presented elsewhere in the form, which seems to suggest that a debate was intended. Just because you may not like debates doesn't mean that others consider such discussions "mean" or contrary to what they are looking for.
If someone wants support and not to be called on any claims they may make, there's a "motivation" section, and of course you can achieve that on your friends page if you surround yourself with people who agree with you only or won't say it if they don't.
I don't blog very often, but I'm happy to say that some of my own friends disagreed with my last blog post and we had a little bit of a discussion. If I say something goofy or wrong or that people think is detrimental to my success, I hope they will call me on it, even if I respectfully disagree after considering what they have to say.
The extent to which people seem to object to perfectly reasonable debate or disagreement and claim that it's mean or "non-supportive" (as if facts should be dismissed if not supportive) always makes me sad. What happened to the idea that it was a positive thing to be able to debate and defend your ideas if you think they are valid. Why else post on the internet?0 -
BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
But is it really horrible? Is it horrible to point out that she is not as powerless as she believes she is? That she has the power to change whatever she thinks has power over her? That recognizing the root of the problem would ultimately help her more than avoiding it? Doesn't knowledge get better results and make for better support than random uninformative pats on the back?0 -
girlviernes wrote: »So much to comment on......Good for you for knowing that it was your coping strategies that led to bringing food back into your life that you know is harmful to you as well as something you are addicted to.
To those who question if sugar is addictive research studies have shows that sugar (especially processed sugar) is as addictive or more addictive that heroin and cocaine....1 example of many....http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2013/10/16/research-shows-cocaine-and-heroin-are-less-addictive-than-oreos/
And addiction to substance is very individual and personal. Not everyone who smokes a cigarette likes it or becomes addicted to it. Not everyone has the same reactions to sugar as others. Not everyone who stresses out turns to food. Not everyone who uses marijuana or alcohol or other substances continue to do so or become addicted and don't want to stop. This is her experience, this is her addiction and just because you don't have the same addiction or the same reaction to sugar as she does does not mean it is not real to her and others.
And to the pseudo-psychiatrists/counselors in the group, the DSM-V (the most recent DSM manual available) does include Binge Eating Disorder and is classified under the category of substance-abuse disorder....which shows that this is an addictive type of disorder. So you are wrong when discussing this.
I'm a clinically licensed therapist and know that food addiction is a physically real occurrence and that this is categorized is the diagnostic community being in the same realm as drug addiction.....per the professionals.
Congrats on knowing what your triggers are and if cutting out certain foods because of addiction, willpower or whatever is what you need then do so and don't listen to the naysayers who don't understand.
Alright, if we are throwing around degrees. I am a PhD in Psychology and specifically trained in the treatment of eating disorders and obesity and this is also my area of research. a) Binge Eating Disorder is classified in DSM-V under Feeding and Eating disorders. b) If food addiction exists, it is thought to be a subset of people with BED who would have food addiction. BED does not equal food addiction. However the science is definitely not settled on this at all. Food addiction is simply a model with very mixed support. There was recently a big review suggesting no evidence for a physiological addiction to foods.
Like I stated, the science is not settled. It is possible that food addiction exists, but even if that is the case, it does not necessarily mean that an abstinence approach is going to be ideal. Even in the treatment of substance abuse, many people are able to find success with non-abstinence approaches. With food, abstinence is quite convoluted since we eat every day and if you take the approach of eliminating certain foods/nutrients they are still very likely to be prevalent in the environment. Coming from an eating disorders perspective, we commonly see that the elimination of foods can increase the belief that you are powerless over that food and/or that that food is "bad" and there is something shameful in eating it, which only serves to increase anxiety and lessen self-efficacy.
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BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
It is not supportive to enable faulty thinking that will only undermine people in the long run.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »BeachKitty301 wrote: »Good grief, people. The original poster simply made a candid observation about his own behavior and OWNED it - took responsibility, and did NOT make an excuse. This is my first post here, and I joined to give & receive support, not to be eaten by a school of cyber piranhas.
This site exists to help each other out during a very difficult process. If you've found success in your weight loss journey, maybe you could offer some insight and encouragement instead of insults. Is this how you behave in real life? Thanks, but I won't be sticking around.
Well said - what a bunch of horrible people. Thought these sites were supposed to be supportive
But is it really horrible? Is it horrible to point out that she is not as powerless as she believes she is? That she has the power to change whatever she thinks has power over her? That recognizing the root of the problem would ultimately help her more than avoiding it? Doesn't knowledge get better results and make for better support than random uninformative pats on the back?
There's a really really big assumption in there.
I don't believe that everyone does have that power - all the evidence we have says not everyone has that power - so if (IF) she doesn't, telling her to "try harder" isn't going to solve anything, and may well make things worse.
There's just no way to know from comments on an anonymous chat board.
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What does it mean to not have the power?0
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