TDEE - When do you decrease your cut?

Phrick

I'm 35, female. SW 254, CW 216, GW somewhere around 140. I've been working off TDEE -25% since I kept reading that those with a LOT to lose (over 100, clearly me) could stand a larger cut than the typical 20% recommendation. Obviously as I lose I keep revising the total calories down, but still at the 25% cut. I'm just wondering at what point should I switch to a 20% cut, and then (in the distant future) when to switch to 15% and then10%? Is it just a case of "when 25% stops working for you switch to 20%," or is there a statement that can be made along the lines of "50 lbs to lose, 20% cut; 30lbs, 10-15%" etc ? Thanks

LongIsland27itl

When you say 25% cut, are you talking about a 25% deficit?

Phrick

yes - 25% deficit or "cut" off my TDEE

LongIsland27itl

You should create more of a deficit (lower calories) when you stop losing weight at your current intake.
When you stop losing, I'd lower cals by about 300 depending on the current amount you are consuming

BTW, you should not stop losing weight in a caloric deficit. Are you adjusting your numbers as you lose weight? I'm sure you know your TDEE changes every time you lose. I re calculate every 5lbs and that'll lower your cals right there

Phrick

You should create more of a deficit (lower calories) when you stop losing weight at your current intake.
When you stop losing, I'd lower cals by about 300 depending on the current amount you are consuming

BTW, you should not stop losing weight in a caloric deficit. Are you adjusting your numbers as you lose weight? I'm sure you know your TDEE changes every time you lose. I re calculate every 5lbs and that'll lower your cals right there

Yes, I do recalculate it every 10 lbs, I've seen people recommend to recalculate every 5-10 so I arbitrarily chose 10, no real reason. So 4 times now, and I'm stil at (what feels like) a ridiculously high number, but I keep doing my best to meet it or at least get close.

LongIsland27itl

If you're overweight, the number will be high, that's just how it is
It's like that for a reason, because there's no sense in someone (for example) who is 300lbs eating the same calories to diet apps someone who is 150lbs. It's all geared towards losing weight at a safe and steady rate. There's more to it also, such as, when you use a lower deficit, as you lose weight, you have room to drop the calories. If you started at a high deficit, say only eating 1400 cals, then where would you drop to when you lose more weight, 1200? Then 1000, it's a recipe for disaster not to mention hunger.

Vailara

This road map post suggests a cut of 30% while obese, then going to 20 % while overweight.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/975025-in-place-of-a-road-map-short-n-sweet

Personally, I had a 20% cut while obese, because I find it so difficult to eat less!

I don't know when you would go down to 15% or 10%. I haven't really looked into it, because I haven't got that far!

pcastagner

You should create more of a deficit (lower calories) when you stop losing weight at your current intake.
When you stop losing, I'd lower cals by about 300 depending on the current amount you are consuming

BTW, you should not stop losing weight in a caloric deficit. Are you adjusting your numbers as you lose weight? I'm sure you know your TDEE changes every time you lose. I re calculate every 5lbs and that'll lower your cals right there

That's bad advice. If you stop losing, don't increase deficit. First, wait and see. Next, look for mistakes measuring inputs and outputs. Then, wait some more.

When to decrease the deficit: when your athletic performance, behavior, or energy levels are off. As I got below 20% I had to back off on my cut.

LongIsland27itl

You should create more of a deficit (lower calories) when you stop losing weight at your current intake.
When you stop losing, I'd lower cals by about 300 depending on the current amount you are consuming

BTW, you should not stop losing weight in a caloric deficit. Are you adjusting your numbers as you lose weight? I'm sure you know your TDEE changes every time you lose. I re calculate every 5lbs and that'll lower your cals right there

That's bad advice. If you stop losing, don't increase deficit. First, wait and see. Next, look for mistakes measuring inputs and outputs. Then, wait some more.

When to decrease the deficit: when your athletic performance, behavior, or energy levels are off. As I got below 20% I had to back off on my cut.

the advice was assuming OP is measuring correctly and obviously waited long enough to realize they stopped losing weight.

SideSteel

I'm 35, female. SW 254, CW 216, GW somewhere around 140. I've been working off TDEE -25% since I kept reading that those with a LOT to lose (over 100, clearly me) could stand a larger cut than the typical 20% recommendation. Obviously as I lose I keep revising the total calories down, but still at the 25% cut. I'm just wondering at what point should I switch to a 20% cut, and then (in the distant future) when to switch to 15% and then10%? Is it just a case of "when 25% stops working for you switch to 20%," or is there a statement that can be made along the lines of "50 lbs to lose, 20% cut; 30lbs, 10-15%" etc ? Thanks

Once you have your intake set (which you do as of now) I wouldn't worry about figuring things out in terms of percentage of TDEE. I would simply monitor your results and how you feel and when you stop getting results (and of course waited a few weeks to make sure your lack of results isn't due to fluid retention, and making sure you haven't just gotten complacent with food scale usage and tracking accuracy) then I would simply take your current intake and reduce it slightly, or I would increase physical activity, or a combination of the two. Point being, once you've ruled out water weight changes and inaccurate logging (two very common culprits for stalls), you will need to do something to create a more noticeable energy deficit.

pcastagner

You should create more of a deficit (lower calories) when you stop losing weight at your current intake.
When you stop losing, I'd lower cals by about 300 depending on the current amount you are consuming

BTW, you should not stop losing weight in a caloric deficit. Are you adjusting your numbers as you lose weight? I'm sure you know your TDEE changes every time you lose. I re calculate every 5lbs and that'll lower your cals right there

That's bad advice. If you stop losing, don't increase deficit. First, wait and see. Next, look for mistakes measuring inputs and outputs. Then, wait some more.

When to decrease the deficit: when your athletic performance, behavior, or energy levels are off. As I got below 20% I had to back off on my cut.

the advice was assuming OP is measuring correctly and obviously waited long enough to realize they stopped losing weight.

In my experience that assumption is responsible for lots of bad advice. Also responsible for many plateaus.

I'm very good at measuring and I still make mistakes.

Vailara

I meant to mention as well, that even if you stick with, say, a 20% cut, your actual deficit will slowly decrease as you lose weight anyway, because your TDEE will go down (assuming same levels of activity, etc.).

pcastagner

I meant to mention as well, that even if you stick with, say, a 20% cut, your actual deficit will slowly decrease as you lose weight anyway, because your TDEE will go down (assuming same levels of activity, etc.).

That falls under the category "error in measuring inputs or outputs"

The tdee method works best if you have a very steady routine, but you have to revise tdee from time to time.

SideSteel

I meant to mention as well, that even if you stick with, say, a 20% cut, your actual deficit will slowly decrease as you lose weight anyway, because your TDEE will go down (assuming same levels of activity, etc.).

That falls under the category "error in measuring inputs or outputs"

The tdee method works best if you have a very steady routine, but you have to revise tdee from time to time.

Not necessarily.

While I agree that measurement errors happen (it's the first place I'd look along with fluid retention to explain a stall), adaptive thermogenesis also happens and as people lose weight they may need to reduce intake.

pcastagner

I meant to mention as well, that even if you stick with, say, a 20% cut, your actual deficit will slowly decrease as you lose weight anyway, because your TDEE will go down (assuming same levels of activity, etc.).

That falls under the category "error in measuring inputs or outputs"

The tdee method works best if you have a very steady routine, but you have to revise tdee from time to time.

Not necessarily.

While I agree that measurement errors happen (it's the first place I'd look along with fluid retention to explain a stall), adaptive thermogenesis also happens and as people lose weight they may need to reduce intake.

Definition of error (as I am using it in this case):

6. The difference between an observed value and the true value of a quantity. The difference between the observed value of a quantity and that which is taken or computed to be the true value; sometimes called residual error.

SideSteel

I meant to mention as well, that even if you stick with, say, a 20% cut, your actual deficit will slowly decrease as you lose weight anyway, because your TDEE will go down (assuming same levels of activity, etc.).

That falls under the category "error in measuring inputs or outputs"

The tdee method works best if you have a very steady routine, but you have to revise tdee from time to time.

Not necessarily.

While I agree that measurement errors happen (it's the first place I'd look along with fluid retention to explain a stall), adaptive thermogenesis also happens and as people lose weight they may need to reduce intake.

Definition of error (as I am using it in this case):

6. The difference between an observed value and the true value of a quantity. The difference between the observed value of a quantity and that which is taken or computed to be the true value; sometimes called residual error.

Ok I see.

But in terms of application, since people aren't going to be able to accurately track acute changes in BMR, NEAT, TEF and only "sort-of" able to monitor exercise thermogenesis (which is still an estimate, just a more educated one if they're using an HRM), I would still say that the logical approach to this is to look at your intake (you can rather tightly control this variable), make sure you're eliminating as much error as possible by correcting tracking laziness, and if you're still not losing over a reasonable time-frame then you need to re-create or enlarge the current deficit (if it even exists at all at that particular point in time) and you do this by reducing intake or increasing activity or both.

Expenditure tends to decay over time during prolonged caloric deficits and after weight loss. Any way you slice it, most people will have to either eat less or move more as they lose.

pcastagner

I meant to mention as well, that even if you stick with, say, a 20% cut, your actual deficit will slowly decrease as you lose weight anyway, because your TDEE will go down (assuming same levels of activity, etc.).

That falls under the category "error in measuring inputs or outputs"

The tdee method works best if you have a very steady routine, but you have to revise tdee from time to time.

Not necessarily.

While I agree that measurement errors happen (it's the first place I'd look along with fluid retention to explain a stall), adaptive thermogenesis also happens and as people lose weight they may need to reduce intake.

Definition of error (as I am using it in this case):

6. The difference between an observed value and the true value of a quantity. The difference between the observed value of a quantity and that which is taken or computed to be the true value; sometimes called residual error.

Ok I see.

But in terms of application, since people aren't going to be able to accurately track acute changes in BMR, NEAT, TEF and only "sort-of" able to monitor exercise thermogenesis (which is still an estimate, just a more educated one if they're using an HRM), I would still say that the logical approach to this is to look at your intake (you can rather tightly control this variable), make sure you're eliminating as much error as possible by correcting tracking laziness, and if you're still not losing over a reasonable time-frame then you need to re-create or enlarge the current deficit (if it even exists at all at that particular point in time) and you do this by reducing intake or increasing activity or both.

Expenditure tends to decay over time during prolonged caloric deficits and after weight loss. Any way you slice it, most people will have to either eat less or move more as they lose.

Seems like a logical and efficient (and through!) way to account for error.

But the reason I advocate waiting is that reducing intake too much can have a big impact on athletic performance, and on behavior, resulting in even lower expenditures. If fat loss is expected to be linear, the expectation can't be met without making your program progressively intense. Awesome if you can pull it off, but patience is also a good way to go. I think that helps explain the prevalence of so much "eat more" advice.