I guarantee you will gain it back if...

55in13

I see this in a lot of posts and I would like to make a suggestion - STOP IT!!!

If you think you have a better alternative, say so. Please don't use absolutes to tell people what is going to happen if they use a particular method you disagree with. Different things work for different people. Crazy crash diets usually do not work long term I agree with that statement. The converse of it is that only a few people have lost weight that way and kept it off long term, but some have. So if you guarantee it will come back, you immediately lose credibility.

There are a couple of reasons I dislike them. One is that absolutes turn debates into insolvable arguments. The other is that I see many posters respond to the first response they get indicating they take it as being on authority like the MFP forum is the official support forum for getting your life back. Speaking in absolutes reinforces this incorrect notion IMO.

55in13

bump

yarwell

you forgot to add "and more besides" ;-)

JustPeachy044

I agree with you, with one caveat. As people asking for advice and support, we need to understand that people are giving their opinion. Anyone asking for advice and input needs to read replies critically and not take what others say as guaranteed truth, no matter how the reply is worded!

riccoismydog

I think if someone is depending on the advice of strangers on an online forum full of weekend experts who once read an article that said something profound, but cannot site that article because it was two years ago....

Your gonna have a real bad time.

Do your own research, seek out professionals (trainers, nutritionists, doctors (even these are better than a person whose claim to knowledge is a book they read last year, or what their friends tell them)

Think for yourself. Someday, no one will be there to think for you.

dogo187

everyone has a different opinion, because every single one of us has a different reality...

one's experiences in life will always dictate that no one's opinion is exactly the same as some one elses...

I would never tell someone that they are going to regain the weight...its like telling some one they will fail...

brower47

I never speak in absolutes.

55in13

Well, your caveat could imply that people asking for education should already educated. Not trying to pick on you, but expecting new posters here looking for advice to be anything but green is optimistic.I like optimism, but I think the more common reality differs in this case...

I get the comment from time to time and know to just shrug it aside. My weight loss is unsustainable (everyone's is or we would all wink out of existence at some point :bigsmile: ). I will have a new challenge when I get to goal weight. I understand that. A lot of posters really don't seem to get that when someone tells them "it can't be done" a certain way that it is just an opinion of low probability.

55in13

I would never tell someone that they are going to regain the weight...its like telling some one they will fail...

Exactly! Even if it seems very likely, positive suggestions work so much better.

jennifer_417

I never speak in absolutes.

I see what you did there...

JustPeachy044

I get your point. Not everyone understands the concept, "you can't believe everything you read." and not everyone understands that speaking in absolutes is almost "guaranteed" to alienate or mis-inform others. Life is just too short for either extreme...

marinebiologist_girl

I would never tell someone that they are going to regain the weight...its like telling some one they will fail...

Exactly! Even if it seems very likely, positive suggestions work so much better.

Precisely this! I FINALLY had a friend of my mother's who's not seen me in months turn to me and say:

NOT "You've lost so much weight!"
NOT "You better be careful not to put it all back on!"

BUT "Wow, you're maintaining really well, good on you!"

...Thank god there's someone out there who understands it.

glovepuppet

I see this in a lot of posts and I would like to make a suggestion - STOP IT!!!

If you think you have a better alternative, say so. Please don't use absolutes to tell people what is going to happen if they use a particular method you disagree with. Different things work for different people. Crazy crash diets usually do not work long term I agree with that statement. The converse of it is that only a few people have lost weight that way and kept it off long term, but some have. So if you guarantee it will come back, you immediately lose credibility.

There are a couple of reasons I dislike them. One is that absolutes turn debates into insolvable arguments. The other is that I see many posters respond to the first response they get indicating they take it as being on authority like the MFP forum is the official support forum for getting your life back. Speaking in absolutes reinforces this incorrect notion IMO.

i LOVE this thread.

your experience is not a universal truth. people who insist it must be just strike me as a bit dim.

55in13

i LOVE this thread.

your experience is not a universal truth. people who insist it must be just strike me as a bit dim.

That is exactly the point. You can be right without a differing viewpoint being wrong when it comes to weight loss.

glovepuppet

i LOVE this thread.

your experience is not a universal truth. people who insist it must be just strike me as a bit dim.

That is exactly the point. You can be right without a differing viewpoint being wrong when it comes to weight loss.

not just weight loss but also many other aspects of life.

55in13

i LOVE this thread.

your experience is not a universal truth. people who insist it must be just strike me as a bit dim.

That is exactly the point. You can be right without a differing viewpoint being wrong when it comes to weight loss.

not just weight loss but also many other aspects of life.

Very true; intolerance of other viewpoints is one of the biggest problems in the world today.

Carol_L

i LOVE this thread.

your experience is not a universal truth. people who insist it must be just strike me as a bit dim.

That is exactly the point. You can be right without a differing viewpoint being wrong when it comes to weight loss.

not just weight loss but also many other aspects of life.

Very true; intolerance of other viewpoints is one of the biggest problems in the world today.

The problem with reality is that there are absolutes. No feel good, all viewpoints are equally valid, Oprah inspired, let's give everyone a participation medal philosophy is going to make that go away.

Gravity is an absolute - jumping off of a tall cliff and thinking positive thoughts is not going prevent the sudden deceleration when you hit the bottom from maiming or killing you. If you stick your hand on a hot element for a minute, or pick up a coal and hold it in your hand, you will damage yourself. Standing outside in a -50 windchill in a swimsuit for 30 minutes will result in severe frostbite with a high potential for serious hypothermia.

In the same way, mainlining all the raspberry ketones in the world with a side of green coffee bean extract and washing it all down with slim-tea (or whatever name it goes under), living on sunlight and wheat grass, or (pick your poison) anything else as a weight loss method that doesn't require balanced nutrition (protein, carbs and fat) with a certain degree of activity to accompany it will ultimately end in failure for a number of different reasons.

People spend so much time obsessing about a number on the scale with no regard to what that number means. Two black boxes of identical weight can have radically different contents. In the case of your body, unless your weight loss plan includes tracking and attempting to maintain your lean muscle mass, you will be losing both fat and muscle. Unlike muscle, fat is not 'active' tissue, so your body does not need to expend any energy to maintain it. The insidious part is that muscle is a lot harder to build (e.g. gain) than fat.

So, someone has a quick loss of 20 lbs following one of these 'alternative' weight loss methods, but what combination of fat and muscle have they lost? How much of it is water weight because the method you've used involved a diuretic? Taking an unrealistically optimistic view that it was more fat and muscle than water, you still have affected your body's base metabolism by however much muscle you lost in the process. Now that you're metabolism is lowered, unless you're upping your activity or actively trying to build muscle, if you go back to your old eating habits weight will be gained because you're body requires fewer calories to maintain the same weight because of diminished muscle.

Attempting to evade reality, or helping others to do so, helps no one.

55in13

Attempting to evade reality, or helping others to do so, helps no one.

I guess it is a good thing the internet wasn't around about 30 years ago when I crash dieted to lose 42 pounds after the first time I let my weight get out of hand. Since I didn't know it wasn't possible to maintain a healthy weight after doing that, I kept it off and was in good shape for about 20 years. Then along comes the internet (curse you, Al Gore! :laugh: ) and I was alerted to my folly and started gaining the weight back and more. It's a shame I couldn't have remained ignorant and skinny.

Note - I absolutely (yes, I used that word) agree that crash diets are not the best way to lose weight, but they do sometimes work and they can be the starting point for what becomes a healthy lifestyle change. I am eating pretty healthy right now, but I kick started my loss with a crash diet. I have a hard time staying committed at first. Once I had a "lead to protect", doing what I think are the right things for the long term became easier to do. The psyche and the physique are both important components, IMO.

glovepuppet

does losing weight via unhealthy means always, absolutely, without exception mean that the person will return to cake once the weight is off? were that the case, you would see a lot of obese ex-anorexics.

most people may lose weight and then gain it back.
that is not, however, a universal truth.
a sizable number will maintain at the lower weight once they get there, using their new slim figure and memories of obesity as motivation to never overeat again.

is is smart? of course not. we all know that.
but we all also know people who stay thin by less than healthy methods. the world is full of them.

socajam

I think if someone is depending on the advice of strangers on an online forum full of weekend experts who once read an article that said something profound, but cannot site that article because it was two years ago....

Your gonna have a real bad time.

Do your own research, seek out professionals (trainers, nutritionists, doctors (even these are better than a person whose claim to knowledge is a book they read last year, or what their friends tell them)

Think for yourself. Someday, no one will be there to think for you.

Exactly.

glovepuppet

and i'm sure we all also know people who made the healthy lifestyle changes but slipped back into bad habits over time. not everyone finds wholegrains and jogging addictive.

jinna86

I never speak in absolutes.

I see what you did there...

I said this exact same thing in my mind... are you a mind reader??

Whipppets

Absolutely think crash dieting is ridiculous.

55in13

I never speak in absolutes.

I see what you did there...

I said this exact same thing in my mind... are you a mind reader??

Along those same lines, I have noticed that all generalizations are wrong...

BrainyBurro

I see this in a lot of posts and I would like to make a suggestion - STOP IT!!!

If you think you have a better alternative, say so. Please don't use absolutes to tell people what is going to happen if they use a particular method you disagree with. Different things work for different people. Crazy crash diets usually do not work long term I agree with that statement. The converse of it is that only a few people have lost weight that way and kept it off long term, but some have. So if you guarantee it will come back, you immediately lose credibility.

There are a couple of reasons I dislike them. One is that absolutes turn debates into insolvable arguments. The other is that I see many posters respond to the first response they get indicating they take it as being on authority like the MFP forum is the official support forum for getting your life back. Speaking in absolutes reinforces this incorrect notion IMO.

upset at people who speak in absolutes, while speaking in absolutes.

seems absolutely legit.

magerum

cmcollins001

I never speak in absolutes.

...EVER!

NonnyMary

I agree with you. I have to do whats right for me because i have to live with myself. I read all the various approaches to weight management, and some I would do, and some no thanks. i have decided that if I am to lose weight, I cant go on a "diet" because that means to me "starvation and deprivation", but if i could corral these things that put on weight, and live like that the rest of my life, then it will be a permanent change. Well I found a method for me - this Fitness Pal is great becuase I can see if i can have more food, or less food, or what kind of food I can eat. I dont think its an exact science because I eat out a lot, but I write down the best choice they give you to choose from the foods listed. I think a combination of Dr Oz and Dr fuhrman's weight management seems to be what works for me. maybe other things will work for others. But not everything i read here will work for me. Like i refuse to eat tofu and mushrooms! i dont care if they were a miracle. cant stand them.

jennifershoo

:huh:

Weird thread.

bajoyba

I think if someone is depending on the advice of strangers on an online forum full of weekend experts who once read an article that said something profound, but cannot site that article because it was two years ago....

You're gonna have a real bad time.

Do your own research, seek out professionals (trainers, nutritionists, doctors (even these are better than a person whose claim to knowledge is a book they read last year, or what their friends tell them)

Think for yourself. Someday, no one will be there to think for you.

Good advice not just for the internet, but also for life.
I take everything I read here with a grain of salt, and if it sounds legit, I research it for myself. I also tend to trust those who have had great long term success, because they obviously know what they're doing.

The problem with internet forums is that if you post a thread asking for opinions, you're going to get them, including those that feature absolutes. I have also noticed that many of the people who speak in absolutes do tend to offer alternative solutions to the ideas they disagree with. Almost everything I've learned on MFP I learned from those people.

I respect the fact that different things work for different people, and I agree that positivity is a great motivator. I'm not going to say this is absolutely true, but I feel confident in saying that there's one thing that will work for just about everyone: eat a moderate deficit, move your body.

NonnyMary

testing