Half Marathon training - Getting slower

jb290978

Training for a half marathon from basically scratch. I ran 9 miles last night at a pace 30 seconds per mile slower than my last 9 miles two weeks ago.
My last couple of moderate runs of 5 miles were at a pace slower than my 7 mile long run and recently ran a slow 3 miles recovery run which i really struggled with. Again this was actually slower than my 7 mile long run and in the past have ran over 3 mile tempo runs at a much higher pace.

Its a bit demoralising when i know i can do much better. I work shifts so i know timing of runs and eating habits has an effect but is this normal and down to fatigue. I was unable to do a long run for 2 weeks so included a few 5 miles to increase my overall weekly mileage.

Does anyone else have this problem during their training.??

cheshirecatastrophe

Sometimes you just have an off day or days. You might be cultivating some low-lying virus that you're not fully aware of. Maybe seasonal allergies are making it just a little harder to breathe. Weather could be a factor. Are you running the same route? Also, "easy recovery run" is not the same thing as a rest day. If you're adding in more *days* of running, even with the same overall distance, it stands to reason that your legs are going to be a bit more tired.

And sometimes you just have an off day.

scottb81

I have had that problem before after a long period of running all my training runs too hard.

glevinso

scottb81 wrote: »

I have had that problem before after a long period of running all my training runs too hard.

I'll second this. If I have been doing too much "hard" running (or riding) then I find my ability to sustain a good pace for the long distance workout of the week suffers.

As you get closer to your race your efforts will taper off so that you are well rested on race day. Don't worry too much about your paces on the long distance runs as those are usually going to be done when your body is in a state of fatigue at some level.

TheBigFb

Wind, surface can all effect you. Relax, running 9 miles is super as it is

HardcoreP0rk

When I'm deep into my training, I get slower almost every day. Pushing myself is harder. My muscles feel exhausted. Then I'll take 3 straight days off... and I'm so fast coming back. You're just exhausted and aren't sufficiently recovering. Try doing better cross training and make sure you get plenty of rest before race day. It isn't unusual for me to take 5 days off before race day, with only a short 2 mile run in the middle to stay loose.

JT__99

I had the same problem...working my butt off in the gym and then running afterwards. It slowed me down, now I run before lifting and my times have improved.

erickirb

How large is your deficit? I would suggest while training you may want to eat at maintenance or just under if you still want to lose (0.5lb/week weight loss goal)

chivalryder

What most of the people are saying: You're probably pushing too hard too much. Take a day (or two) off.

I would go further to suggest only running once every other day, with maybe one back-to-back run a week. This will give you ample time to recover between runs so you will likely be able to keep your pace up (and possibly improve).

Also, don't increase your weekly mileage by more than 10% each week, from the previous week. If you ran 20 miles this week, don't do more than 22 miles next week, and so on. I would go further and suggest no more than 5% each week to allow your body to adapt to running the longer distances. Remember, in the world of fitness, more is not better. Slow, progressive increases will get you further than jumping in with both feet.

If you increase too quickly, or don't allow yourself ample time to recover, you will experience exactly what you're experiencing right now: You're burning out, your performance is suffering, and you're getting slower.

quietasariot

I currently just finished my 10 mile week (so I ran 10 on saturday) and felt so slow and bogged down - partially PMS, partially tiredness. I took two days off and feel like I'll be better today. Just take your time. I know how frustrating it can be to have your pace get slower, but you are, at the very least, getting it done.

glevinso

erickirb wrote: »

How large is your deficit? I would suggest while training you may want to eat at maintenance or just under if you still want to lose (0.5lb/week weight loss goal)

There is a certain measure of this as well. In the past I have tried cutting weight while training hard. The result was not what I wanted come race day.

shmulyeng

Since this discussion is on MFP rather than on a running blog, I'll assume you're doing this for fitness rather than winning races. If that's true, don't combine training for speed with training for your first half marathon. When I found myself losing the enjoyment in running, I realized I was focusing too much on pace. Now I intentionally slow myself down a little and focus more on enjoying the run. Once in a while I'll run a short run at full speed just to get it out of my system.

HardcoreP0rk

glevinso wrote: »

erickirb wrote: »

How large is your deficit? I would suggest while training you may want to eat at maintenance or just under if you still want to lose (0.5lb/week weight loss goal)

There is a certain measure of this as well. In the past I have tried cutting weight while training hard. The result was not what I wanted come race day.

I run into this too. Eating at a deficit, trying to rehab an injury and still train? Not ideal. Training hard for PERFORMANCE requires good nutrition. Performance will suffer, depending on your deficit and weight loss goals. You don't see this in newbies trying to just "get it done" but in actual athletes with high performance expectations... seen it plenty

eva_svi

You're probably on the right track. I always slow down during training as the body is tired - once you rest enough the pace picks up incredibly. Don't be afraid to slow down it's actually good for you. My college trainer used to make us run 1-2 fast runs every week (tempo and/ or intervals) and the rest was as slow as comfortable for everyone. During big mileage increases we did not push he pace at all. It helps your body deal with the mileage increases. You don't need to always run fast during training to be fast during the race just make sure you rest enough before your big day (mileage decrease incl. No long runs during the last three weeks of preparation, a short run in your race pace the day before) and you'll be fine...

jgnatca

<-reading with rapt attention. ^^^

I've been getting slower too. And all I'm training for is my first 5K in about ten days. Pretty well guaranteed I'll walk half of it. I'm doing more stretches to rehabilitate my knees and every run seems shorter. This is so different than the early progress when I was going through the running class. Every week I could do more.

I think I'm beginning to understand the mental part of this game. It's sure a lot harder to keep the motivation going if progress seems backwards.

scottb81

Any training program should consist of 80% or more of the runs being easy runs for best results (particularly if you are building mileage). If you run too hard all the time progress will usually stagnate or begin regressing after a few months.

Easy is really easy, below the ventilatory threshold. In other words, you aren't even breathing hard. It sounds like magic that you get better running so easy but it works.

dennyman100

Also, Think about the weather. As it starts to warm up you will get tired and groggy faster. I know that when it was chilly I could run with ease. Now we have peaked at 70 degrees and I was dying after 2 miles so i had to slow down some to keep my body from stopping all together.

lporter229

scottb81 wrote: »

Any training program should consist of 80% or more of the runs being easy runs for best results (particularly if you are building mileage). If you run too hard all the time progress will usually stagnate or begin regressing after a few months.

Easy is really easy, below the ventilatory threshold. In other words, you aren't even breathing hard. It sounds like magic that you get better running so easy but it works.

+1. I always recommend picking up a copy of Matt Fitzgerald's "80/20" to people who are having a difficult time wrapping their head around this. The premise of the book is: Train slower to run faster. It works.

stealthq

scottb81 wrote: »

Any training program should consist of 80% or more of the runs being easy runs for best results (particularly if you are building mileage). If you run too hard all the time progress will usually stagnate or begin regressing after a few months.

Easy is really easy, below the ventilatory threshold. In other words, you aren't even breathing hard. It sounds like magic that you get better running so easy but it works.

+2

I'm a researcher by nature, so found out about this while I was still doing c25k. I've run almost all of my runs this way following higdon's marathon training plan (I stopped at the 14 mile long run week), and am at 10 min miles for half marathon distances. I don't race, and do no speed work or pace work, so that's a comfortable pace for me. Easy, relaxed breathing.

Considering it's been only 10 months since I started with c25k, I think it's very satisfactory progress. Especially since I thought I completely sucked at and hated running. Running slow keeps it pretty enjoyable, and keeps me from wearing out.

jb290978

Thanks guys. I normally only do 3 days a week but the last week I have crammed 22 miles in when normally I only do around 14 or so.

Those who concerned about eating at deficit. II'm not concerned what I eat or about losing weight. I have lost some belly fat etc due to running but I'm sleight build anyway.

I do get the muggy weather. That is the day a barely done 3 mile. Hope it's not like that on the day.

Will keep plodding along at my steady pace. Good for the encouragement this site.

AzTriathlete

Your first half? Don't worry about times. Slowly build your long distance run. No more than a mile more distant than the week before. Run only 3 days a week, one long and two about half the long distance. The speed will come with the more you run. You've never ran before and it's very easy for a new runner to over do it, this can lead to slower times and even worse injuries! Find a local running club, they are everywhere and most have Internet pages. Start going on beginners group runs and chat it up with experienced runners. And you can always find a running coach to keep you in a happy training place. Good luck, Mike. (2X26.2 2X13.1 1/2 ironman)

HardcoreP0rk

Side note: but is anyone else concerned about stride and stride length at slower paces? I find that my stride is AWFUL at slower paces. Anything slower than a 9 min mile really starts to suffer.

esjones12

Lots of good advice already...just wanted to throw a little caution to the wind. Decreased performance can also be a sign of over training. Google Overtraining Syndrome and see if you have any other symptoms. If you've been following a good running program, it is probably not the case...but a little education on the subject doesn't hurt if you intend to keep running

HardcoreP0rk

esjones12 wrote: »

Lots of good advice already...just wanted to throw a little caution to the wind. Decreased performance can also be a sign of over training. Google Overtraining Syndrome and see if you have any other symptoms. If you've been following a good running program, it is probably not the case...but a little education on the subject doesn't hurt if you intend to keep running

Throwing caution to the wind means that you are essentially dispensing with caution... it's basically tantamount to saying "I don't care what the consequences are - I am going to do this!"

Not maybe the phrase you'd want to use when you're trying to warn someone against over training.

misskris78

I train for 15k distances (and longer) at a pace about 2 min/mi slower than my 5k pace. As a result, if I run a 5k while training for a distance race, I'll run that 5k slower than I would if my training runs were short distance. I don't think it's overtraining as much as adapting to longer and slower distances. Try taking some time off and see if that helps the times. It also may be beneficial to add some yoga or cross training to your routine and reduce the miles. At a half marathon distance, you shouldn't need to run a ton of miles - even if you're starting from scratch. Use a respected training program as a base, and fine tune the details to make them work for you.

scottb81

I disagree with reducing your miles since you said you are running less than 20 a week now.

You will always be faster at all distances over 800 meters by running more miles if you run those training moles right.

My fastrsti 5k ever was only 2 weeks after my one and only 100 mi training week.

Once you get your miles up there for a while, if you don't run all of them too hard, your sramina for holding speed will go through the roof.

hbrittingham

scottb81 wrote: »

Any training program should consist of 80% or more of the runs being easy runs for best results (particularly if you are building mileage). If you run too hard all the time progress will usually stagnate or begin regressing after a few months.

Easy is really easy, below the ventilatory threshold. In other words, you aren't even breathing hard. It sounds like magic that you get better running so easy but it works.

I started following this advice and my distance has increased well beyond what I was able to do when I was running in the past.

SonicDeathMonkey80

The purpose of easy training runs is not to beat your previous paces. You're not winning anything, except more recovery time.

glevinso

SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »

The purpose of easy training runs is not to beat your previous paces. You're not winning anything, except more recovery time.

This. I know too many people who always try to "win" their workouts. Or PR every training run. This is not the right way to train.

It has gotten to the point where one friend will start telling me about his "PR 10k" effort on his training run the day before and I have stopped him dead. If you can PR your 10k in a training run, you are sandbagging your races.

SonicDeathMonkey80

glevinso wrote: »

SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »

The purpose of easy training runs is not to beat your previous paces. You're not winning anything, except more recovery time.

This. I know too many people who always try to "win" their workouts. Or PR every training run. This is not the right way to train.

It has gotten to the point where one friend will start telling me about his "PR 10k" effort on his training run the day before and I have stopped him dead. If you can PR your 10k in a training run, you are sandbagging your races.

Yep. I was there once myself, and I plateaued at 8:00 mile pace for everything. And to a point this goes for races as well. I'm in a couple clubs (Half Fanatics/Marathon Maniacs) and lots of the members will pile on the races and get all out of whack when they don't PR at each one of them. Even during a race, a PR shouldn't happen as a surprise - it should be trained for and completely expected (unless it's your first attempt at that distance). I've never PR'd during a training run, and even if I did, it would only mean that I haven't raced that particular distance in years, or like you said, I'm sandbagging the races.

Racing is not training, and training is not racing.

glevinso

I had a series of half-marathon PRs in training last season while training for a marathon. But that was because I almost never run half marathons (except as part of a half-ironman).

I was amused by that since I know full well I shouldn't be PRing in training, but at least I had a legitimate reason for this one.

The only time I was surprised by a PR was at a half marathon I ran this past January. I was at a triathlon training camp and the race was supposed to just be a kind of training event. We had ridden a few hundred miles in the days before, a few really long and hard swim efforts and some track runs. My legs were decidedly destroyed. Yet I get to the start line and rip out a 30-second PR. No clue where that even came from considering how tired I was and the lack of anything resembling a taper. Makes me wonder what I can do when specifically training for a half marathon with a sufficient taper ahead of it.