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If you can't gain muscle while eating at a calorie deficit...
Replies
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SophiaSerrao wrote: »Any weight loss will result in fat and lean muscle loss. To what extent will matter on the approach. People that do calorie deficit with no lifting will most definitely lose more lean muscle vs someone who does lift while losing weight (the exception would be someone who has a physical labor job, IE a ditch digger, since their muscle is always being stressed).
People want to lose enough body fat and keep enough lean muscle. Resistance training makes it more doable.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't read through the rest of the posts, but I was wondering if I could ask you something: what's the difference between resistance training and strength training? I tried a google searcg, but I didn't get the simple, consice anser I was looking for.
?
Strength training is progressive. One is intently looking to increase their strength by progressively making the resistance higher on any given exercise when they can.
Resistance training doesn't have to be progressive. One could use the same weight for a given exercise over and over because they are just maintaining whatever strength level they are at now. Aging people over 50+ usually don't have a big desire to keep increasing their strength, but more concern about maintaining it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This was really helpful. Thank you.0 -
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
When I was 15% bf and 115 I had to lift heavy like 6 times a week with mininal cardio and I still lost a bunch muscle while eating 150g of protein on a 1300 cal diet. Or maybe my coach just sucked lol idk but I had to lift A LOT to maintain my musclr
Maybe you overworked the muscles 6 days/week heavy??? where is the recovery time (that is when muscles grow and/or repair)
Lol I know what recovery is and yes I know believe me it didn't make sense to me either and I was exhausted0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
When I was 15% bf and 115 I had to lift heavy like 6 times a week with mininal cardio and I still lost a bunch muscle while eating 150g of protein on a 1300 cal diet. Or maybe my coach just sucked lol idk but I had to lift A LOT to maintain my musclr
Maybe you overworked the muscles 6 days/week heavy??? where is the recovery time (that is when muscles grow and/or repair)
Or maybe 1300 was a deficit for you...ok AND maybe 1300 was a deficit...
that too0 -
SophiaSerrao wrote: »Any weight loss will result in fat and lean muscle loss. To what extent will matter on the approach. People that do calorie deficit with no lifting will most definitely lose more lean muscle vs someone who does lift while losing weight (the exception would be someone who has a physical labor job, IE a ditch digger, since their muscle is always being stressed).
People want to lose enough body fat and keep enough lean muscle. Resistance training makes it more doable.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't read through the rest of the posts, but I was wondering if I could ask you something: what's the difference between resistance training and strength training? I tried a google searcg, but I didn't get the simple, consice anser I was looking for.?
Strength training is progressive. One is intently looking to increase their strength by progressively making the resistance higher on any given exercise when they can.
Resistance training doesn't have to be progressive. One could use the same weight for a given exercise over and over because they are just maintaining whatever strength level they are at now. Aging people over 50+ usually don't have a big desire to keep increasing their strength, but more concern about maintaining it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Great, thanks. I've had that question for a while and that's exactly the kind of clarification I was loking for. I understand perfect. A final question.... if one is overweight enough still so that fat loss is the main concern/goal... would you say one is more recommended? Which one?
(Sorry for butting in the original thread, hehe)0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »
Why do you insist on trying to chime in on things that you have no understanding of (this topic and many others)?0 -
There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine
0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows
^^^^^this.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Recomp in what sense and for whom? Overweight, untrained individuals can gain muscle and lose fat in a deficit - newbie gains, but this is very short lived. Recomp for trained individuals needs to be extremely meticulous, and long term, for significant gains. I've recomped myself, but I know I haven't only lost fat. Lost fat mostly, yes? But some muscle with it.
Ok, but your original statement said you will ALWAYS gain fat in a surplus, and ALWAYS lose muscle in a deficit. That's why I questioned it.
Lol... I didn't say ALWAYS. Never used the term. Also, I stated surplus and deficit calories, not maintenance. And again, has anyone proven the theory of a recomp over the long term?0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows
I have so much to learn. Thanks guys :')0 -
She was referring to her gym maybe not having a rowing machine.DeguelloTex wrote: »
There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows
0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »Thank you! I really appreciate the concise answers. I guess I need to stop looking for excuses to not lift
One thing though; to preserve your lean muscle mass and improve your strength, you don't have to go heavy with the weights. Start light or even do bodyweight strength exercises and you'll see great improvements.
Also, eat sufficient protein and one day a week (full body) lifting is probably good enough to minimize muscle loss.
Really? Only once a week? That's awesome.
What would you consider to be sufficient protein?
When I was 15% bf and 115 I had to lift heavy like 6 times a week with mininal cardio and I still lost a bunch muscle while eating 150g of protein on a 1300 cal diet. Or maybe my coach just sucked lol idk but I had to lift A LOT to maintain my musclr
Maybe you overworked the muscles 6 days/week heavy??? where is the recovery time (that is when muscles grow and/or repair)
Or maybe 1300 was a deficit for you...ok AND maybe 1300 was a deficit...
Yes 1300 was a deficit. She wanted me to lose more fat while keep muscle I developed in like 3weeks. Never doing that again.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
She was referring to her gym maybe not having a rowing machine.DeguelloTex wrote: »
There are machine rows. A barbell row is a barbell exercise. A dumbbell row is a dumbbell exercise. A machine row is a machine exercise.nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
Row is a barbell exercise, not a machine
She is referring to stornglifts 5x5 which is a barbell routine, using barbells for rows
If you go back to who the OP was talking to and about what it was me and we were discussing the Strong lift program...OP was confused by the term as she hasn't lifted....yet....;)
0 -
I think the ratio of gain is 1:1. So if you gain 1 pound. Its half muscle, half fat. Recomp is what I'm working on. Not comfortable with the idea of a bulk/cut. The fat I already have is a b*tch to take off as is. I don't wanna add to it and have to take more off.0
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Effect of Two Different Weight-Loss Rates on Body Composition and Strength and Power-Related Performance in Elite Athletes
For the just the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
Last line of which is "In conclusion, data from this study suggest that athletes who want to gain LBM and increase 1RM strength during a WL period combined with strength training should aim for a weekly BW loss of 0.7%."
For the full text: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Disclosure statement of funding: Norwegian Olympic Sports Center and Norwegian School of Sport Sciences.
For what it is worth.0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
I know I kinda confused myself lol. What I think I mean is I want to eat a surplus and to avoid turning that into fat I have to turn it into muscle and at the same time hope im burning fat. This all confused the ish outta me when I was competing. My coach wanted me to eat 1200 while not losing my muscle at 115lbs.
The human body isn't efficient enough to partition calories to muscle only. Surplus calories will lead to weight gain, both fat and muscle, if you are lifting progressively. A deficit in calories will lead to both muscle and fat loss. Heavy lifting and adequate protein intake will spare some muscle loss, but it's impossible to lose weight by ONLY burning fat and not muscle.
If the above is true, how can you ever recomp??
Question how can a person have 5% bf and be huge in muscle.
How do you define huge at 5%? IFBB pros? Or natural competitors?0 -
Strength training will burn more calories due to increase of intensity over time vs resistance training, but if fat loss is still your main concern, it's whatever you prefer. Fat loss still comes down to calorie deficit and if you're hitting it, then training preference isn't as much of concern.SophiaSerrao wrote: »SophiaSerrao wrote: »Any weight loss will result in fat and lean muscle loss. To what extent will matter on the approach. People that do calorie deficit with no lifting will most definitely lose more lean muscle vs someone who does lift while losing weight (the exception would be someone who has a physical labor job, IE a ditch digger, since their muscle is always being stressed).
People want to lose enough body fat and keep enough lean muscle. Resistance training makes it more doable.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't read through the rest of the posts, but I was wondering if I could ask you something: what's the difference between resistance training and strength training? I tried a google searcg, but I didn't get the simple, consice anser I was looking for.?
Strength training is progressive. One is intently looking to increase their strength by progressively making the resistance higher on any given exercise when they can.
Resistance training doesn't have to be progressive. One could use the same weight for a given exercise over and over because they are just maintaining whatever strength level they are at now. Aging people over 50+ usually don't have a big desire to keep increasing their strength, but more concern about maintaining it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Great, thanks. I've had that question for a while and that's exactly the kind of clarification I was loking for. I understand perfect. A final question.... if one is overweight enough still so that fat loss is the main concern/goal... would you say one is more recommended? Which one?
(Sorry for butting in the original thread, hehe)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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@Tweakfish you got this...if you want to lift just check out the group, ask for help at your gym and bam you are there. If you don't like it you don't have to continue but if you do have fun it's well worth the effort.0
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nancyjay__ wrote: »
I'm guessing she is stating "recomp" in a long, close enough, sentence?dieselbyte wrote: »nancyjay__ wrote: »That's when you don't eat at a deficit instead you eat to maintain and try to burn fat and create muscle
Or try to eat at a surplus making those extra calories muscle
But in a deficit you'll always lose either fat or muscle or both
But to answer your question you want to burn fat while gaining muscle while not addidng any more cals to have to burn
I know you said you corrected yourself, but I still don't understand what you are stating?
What is recomp
eating at maintenance while lifting burning fat and building small amounts of muscle too.
OP I lift to prevent muscle loss while I lose mostly fat, I lift because I love being strong....and I lift because damn it's fun.
It took me so long to get into cardio and enjoy it. I really need to train myself to enjoy weight lifting as well. It still baffles me but I see so many people having fantastic results with it.
I enjoy it because I like what it does, how I feel afterwards but not everyone does.
My sister just can't do it...heavy lifting that is.
But she is still pretty lean and lots of muscle shows....but she does do resistance training through body weight exercises. Maybe start with something like that...I did.
I started with JM 30 Day Shred...pushups, lunges, squats....all bodyweight...then I realize what it was doing and bam strong lifts 5x5...I can currently bench 128lbs, squat 205, OHP 98 and DL 230lbs...I weigh 150....
I hear a lot of people talking about stronglifts 5x5. I tried to start reading about it but there was so much information I got bogged down.
Your stats are certainly impressive!! I bet I can barely bench 60lbs right now and I weigh about 160.
Thank you again for the information. It's very helpful (and motivational).
SL 5x5 is simple. There is a group here with a summary of the program
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/4601-stronglifts-5x5-for-women
and other programs.
Basically you do 2 workouts 3x a week...
Workout A Squat 5x5, Bench 5x5, Row 5x5 starting with low weights and adding 2.5-5lbs for your next workout
Workout B Squat 5x5 (5lbs heavier than last time), OHP 5x5, DL 1x5
back to Workout A adding on 2.5-5lbs to each lift.
I did it M/W/F and took the weekends off it was great...
Starting weights are based on what is heavy for you.
Watch videos like So you think you can squat/deadlift/bench for pointers on form and bam you are on your way.
The ladies in that group are a great source of information as well.
Thanks again Stef! I had no idea there was a MFP community for stronglifts.
I don't think that my gym has a rowing machine (I could be wrong because I stay away from that side). If not is there something that I could substitute for rowing?
I like the idea of weekends off!
You're actually not using a rowing machine (or else I wouldn't be able to do it either!). You bend over at the waist and lift the barbell up to your chest. There's a link to how-to/proper form videos in the group.0 -
Effect of Two Different Weight-Loss Rates on Body Composition and Strength and Power-Related Performance in Elite Athletes
For the just the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
Last line of which is "In conclusion, data from this study suggest that athletes who want to gain LBM and increase 1RM strength during a WL period combined with strength training should aim for a weekly BW loss of 0.7%."
For the full text: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Disclosure statement of funding: Norwegian Olympic Sports Center and Norwegian School of Sport Sciences.
For what it is worth.
Yeah, I read that too. Even if there wasn't an underlying concern of exogenous drug use, these are trained, elite athletes that were monitored daily.0 -
@Tweakfish you got this...if you want to lift just check out the group, ask for help at your gym and bam you are there. If you don't like it you don't have to continue but if you do have fun it's well worth the effort.
You rock @SezxyStef !! I never thought I would get into exercising at all and now there are definitely aspects I enjoy. I just need to break into this new realm you all speak of. I'm browsing the Stronglifts community right now. I think it's laid out well enough even I will be able to do this!0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »Effect of Two Different Weight-Loss Rates on Body Composition and Strength and Power-Related Performance in Elite Athletes
For the just the abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
Last line of which is "In conclusion, data from this study suggest that athletes who want to gain LBM and increase 1RM strength during a WL period combined with strength training should aim for a weekly BW loss of 0.7%."
For the full text: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
Disclosure statement of funding: Norwegian Olympic Sports Center and Norwegian School of Sport Sciences.
For what it is worth.
Yeah, I read that too. Even if there wasn't an underlying concern of exogenous drug use, these are trained, elite athletes that were monitored daily.
Not to mention, look at the types of athletes selected. Not all of them incorporate resistance training into their programs, so they would be more prime for growth while in a caloric deficit.
And just to notate - Brad Schoenfeld has made mention to hypertrophy being possible while in a caloric deficit - even in seasoned athletes, but many factors need to be in line for it to occur (genetics, size of deficit, training age, type of training, underdeveloped vs. developed body parts, body composition). Even then, it is rare and far from optimal.0 -
Strength training will burn more calories due to increase of intensity over time vs resistance training, but if fat loss is still your main concern, it's whatever you prefer. Fat loss still comes down to calorie deficit and if you're hitting it, then training preference isn't as much of concern.SophiaSerrao wrote: »SophiaSerrao wrote: »Any weight loss will result in fat and lean muscle loss. To what extent will matter on the approach. People that do calorie deficit with no lifting will most definitely lose more lean muscle vs someone who does lift while losing weight (the exception would be someone who has a physical labor job, IE a ditch digger, since their muscle is always being stressed).
People want to lose enough body fat and keep enough lean muscle. Resistance training makes it more doable.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I didn't read through the rest of the posts, but I was wondering if I could ask you something: what's the difference between resistance training and strength training? I tried a google searcg, but I didn't get the simple, consice anser I was looking for.?
Strength training is progressive. One is intently looking to increase their strength by progressively making the resistance higher on any given exercise when they can.
Resistance training doesn't have to be progressive. One could use the same weight for a given exercise over and over because they are just maintaining whatever strength level they are at now. Aging people over 50+ usually don't have a big desire to keep increasing their strength, but more concern about maintaining it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Great, thanks. I've had that question for a while and that's exactly the kind of clarification I was loking for. I understand perfect. A final question.... if one is overweight enough still so that fat loss is the main concern/goal... would you say one is more recommended? Which one?
(Sorry for butting in the original thread, hehe)
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Cool. Got it. Thank you, I appreciate it! (Reading and researching is great (though a bit overwhelming), but sometimes one just wants a direct answer from someone (a "real person" haha) whose knowledge you kinda trust. So thanks!)0 -
@Tweakfish you got this...if you want to lift just check out the group, ask for help at your gym and bam you are there. If you don't like it you don't have to continue but if you do have fun it's well worth the effort.
You rock @SezxyStef !! I never thought I would get into exercising at all and now there are definitely aspects I enjoy. I just need to break into this new realm you all speak of. I'm browsing the Stronglifts community right now. I think it's laid out well enough even I will be able to do this!
You can even start with the Program 2 days/week instead of 3. Do workout A one day, take at least one day off between and do workout B another.0 -
@Tweakfish you got this...if you want to lift just check out the group, ask for help at your gym and bam you are there. If you don't like it you don't have to continue but if you do have fun it's well worth the effort.
You rock @SezxyStef !! I never thought I would get into exercising at all and now there are definitely aspects I enjoy. I just need to break into this new realm you all speak of. I'm browsing the Stronglifts community right now. I think it's laid out well enough even I will be able to do this!
You can even start with the Program 2 days/week instead of 3. Do workout A one day, take at least one day off between and do workout B another.
This sounds like a good plan. I just need to start and stop being afraid. There's only buff douchey looking college kids on that side of my gym. They're probably a lot friendlier than I've made them out to be in my head (for a convenient excuse not to lift). 0 -
1) Yes it is possible for some people in some situations to gain muscle while in a calorie deficit. We have this nifty thing called body-fat that can be utilized as fuel when calories are under maintenance. Take an overfat beginner and put them on a resistance training program in a calorie deficit and you can bet they will gain some muscle. Take a lean athlete who is well trained and trying to get very lean and it's not going to happen.
But that's a big continuum and not an on/off switch so best to view it as such.
2) Regardless of whether or not you will gain muscle, if you compare two scenarios where in one, you are lifting weights during the diet and in the other you are not, you will end up with more muscle in the scenario where you are lifting because you will retain more muscle. So whether it actually goes up is irrelevant -- the end result is more muscle than you would have had were you to not lift to begin with.
Strength gains have a neurological component. Rate coding is the rate at which neurons fire to signal muscle contractions. Training can improve rate coding which essentially allows you greater force production.0 -
1) Yes it is possible for some people in some situations to gain muscle while in a calorie deficit. We have this nifty thing called body-fat that can be utilized as fuel when calories are under maintenance. Take an overfat beginner and put them on a resistance training program in a calorie deficit and you can bet they will gain some muscle. Take a lean athlete who is well trained and trying to get very lean and it's not going to happen.
But that's a big continuum and not an on/off switch so best to view it as such.
2) Regardless of whether or not you will gain muscle, if you compare two scenarios where in one, you are lifting weights during the diet and in the other you are not, you will end up with more muscle in the scenario where you are lifting because you will retain more muscle. So whether it actually goes up is irrelevant -- the end result in more muscle than you would have had were you to not lift to begin with.
Strength gains have a neurological component. Rate coding is the rate at which neurons fire to signal muscle contractions. Training can improve rate coding which essentially allows you greater force production.
On point, as always!0 -
1) Yes it is possible for some people in some situations to gain muscle while in a calorie deficit. We have this nifty thing called body-fat that can be utilized as fuel when calories are under maintenance. Take an overfat beginner and put them on a resistance training program in a calorie deficit and you can bet they will gain some muscle. Take a lean athlete who is well trained and trying to get very lean and it's not going to happen.
But that's a big continuum and not an on/off switch so best to view it as such.
2) Regardless of whether or not you will gain muscle, if you compare two scenarios where in one, you are lifting weights during the diet and in the other you are not, you will end up with more muscle in the scenario where you are lifting because you will retain more muscle. So whether it actually goes up is irrelevant -- the end result is more muscle than you would have had were you to not lift to begin with.
Strength gains have a neurological component. Rate coding is the rate at which neurons fire to signal muscle contractions. Training can improve rate coding which essentially allows you greater force production.
Good read. Thanks in the name of all who read, nodded along and appreciated the clarity of the info : D
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So random question: Is it preferable to weigh in grams as opposed to ounces?0
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