cut-bulk... bulk-cut
fishshark
Posts: 1,886 Member
for those of you who have done it which way did you go? I know when you cut you lose some LBM and when you bulk you are going to gain fat. Did you find success bulking then cutting or is it just always done by cutting then bulking? thanks!
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Replies
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I think it's best to cut first and see what you've got. It'll also be satisfying to feel lean for a little bit.
Then once you've made clear goals you can bulk. This way you can stop once you've reached a certain BF% and lean out again.
Re-adjust and continue as necessary.
I know people who have done it the other way around but they tend to get discouraged because they work and work and work and don't get to see the fruits of their labors enough.0 -
Depends on where you're at currently.
If your body fat % is more than 14%, then cut until you're at around 12-13.
Your goal for a bulk should be to get to no more than around 15%, and it should take you around 6-8 months to get there.
So if you're fat, or have too much fat already, bulking is not going to be beneficial. When you end up cutting you'll either take too long, or end up burning off all your muscle gains trying to reach the 10-11% goal.
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IvanOcampo wrote: »Depends on where you're at currently.
If your body fat % is more than 14%, then cut until you're at around 12-13.
Your goal for a bulk should be to get to no more than around 15%, and it should take you around 6-8 months to get there.
So if you're fat, or have too much fat already, bulking is not going to be beneficial. When you end up cutting you'll either take too long, or end up burning off all your muscle gains trying to reach the 10-11% goal.
Pretty certain this is a female, so i'm not sure those numbers are quite as accurate.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »Pretty certain this is a female, so i'm not sure those numbers are quite as accurate.
uuh.
sorry. I retract my comment .. Not sure what body fat % equivalents are like for women.0 -
thats what i was thinking too that i will be doing hard work without really seeing anything then il quit. The thought of cutting then gaining is daunting as well.. thank u for the advice!rainbowbow wrote: »I think it's best to cut first and see what you've got. It'll also be satisfying to feel lean for a little bit.
Then once you've made clear goals you can bulk. This way you can stop once you've reached a certain BF% and lean out again.
Re-adjust and continue as necessary.
I know people who have done it the other way around but they tend to get discouraged because they work and work and work and don't get to see the fruits of their labors enough.
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IvanOcampo wrote: »rainbowbow wrote: »Pretty certain this is a female, so i'm not sure those numbers are quite as accurate.
uuh.
sorry. I retract my comment .. Not sure what body fat % equivalents are like for women.
Goal for my comp was 10% so for men was like 5%...normal for a woman is like 25% so you guys do the math
or find the medium keep in mind comp bf is not sustainable. Same things apply just higher fats 0 -
I always thought you bulked then cut.
Cutting then bulking seems backwards cause won't you need to then cut again to show off your abs etc?
Like say summer is coming up. Bulk then cut then your ready for the beach0 -
I always thought you bulked then cut.
Cutting then bulking seems backwards cause won't you need to then cut again to show off your abs etc?
Like say summer is coming up. Bulk then cut then your ready for the beach
No.
Read below please
Bulking means eating more calories than your body actually "requires" while doing a lifting program. The lifting program is important, because if we just eat extra, it will all turn into fat. Even with an intense lifting program, some of that extra weight will be fat because the body simply can't turn all of it into muscle (but it does need the extra to build extra muscle). The commonly accepted limit to muscle growth is about 20lbs in the first year, getting progressively less as the years go by. Also, most say that the ratio of muscle to fat is 1:1, meaning for every pound of muscle gained, the body will also store 1 lb of fat. Once people have reached their goal weight or too high of a body fat % (usually around 15%), they will cut to lose the fat. Its still important here to lift regularly and eat enough protein to let the body know that it needs to keep the muscle during the cut. BTW, without lifting, the body will tend to keep fat over muscle since its a richer source of energy.
What you described is called a recomp. This is where people eat a maintenance calories (no extra) while lifting heavy. Over time, one can build muscles with the benefit of staying lean the entire time and not having to do a cut. The downside is that its a much slower process than doing a bulk/cut cycle.
What do you think will happen if the person starting the bulk already has too much body fat????0 -
nancyjay__ wrote: »I always thought you bulked then cut.
Cutting then bulking seems backwards cause won't you need to then cut again to show off your abs etc?
Like say summer is coming up. Bulk then cut then your ready for the beach
No.
Read below please
Bulking means eating more calories than your body actually "requires" while doing a lifting program. The lifting program is important, because if we just eat extra, it will all turn into fat. Even with an intense lifting program, some of that extra weight will be fat because the body simply can't turn all of it into muscle (but it does need the extra to build extra muscle). The commonly accepted limit to muscle growth is about 20lbs in the first year, getting progressively less as the years go by. Also, most say that the ratio of muscle to fat is 1:1, meaning for every pound of muscle gained, the body will also store 1 lb of fat. Once people have reached their goal weight or too high of a body fat % (usually around 15%), they will cut to lose the fat. Its still important here to lift regularly and eat enough protein to let the body know that it needs to keep the muscle during the cut. BTW, without lifting, the body will tend to keep fat over muscle since its a richer source of energy.
What you described is called a recomp. This is where people eat a maintenance calories (no extra) while lifting heavy. Over time, one can build muscles with the benefit of staying lean the entire time and not having to do a cut. The downside is that its a much slower process than doing a bulk/cut cycle.
What do you think will happen if the person starting the bulk already has too much body fat????
Couldn't the same be said about someone cutting when they have too little body fat?
I don't think I mentioned anything about the starting point of the individuals body fat.
Is the part in bold the important part? Doesn't that go bulk then cut? Like I said?
Or am I misreading something?
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IvanOcampo wrote: »Depends on where you're at currently.
If your body fat % is more than 14%, then cut until you're at around 12-13.
Your goal for a bulk should be to get to no more than around 15%, and it should take you around 6-8 months to get there.
So if you're fat, or have too much fat already, bulking is not going to be beneficial. When you end up cutting you'll either take too long, or end up burning off all your muscle gains trying to reach the 10-11% goal.nancyjay__ wrote: »I always thought you bulked then cut.
Cutting then bulking seems backwards cause won't you need to then cut again to show off your abs etc?
Like say summer is coming up. Bulk then cut then your ready for the beach
No.
Read below please
Bulking means eating more calories than your body actually "requires" while doing a lifting program. The lifting program is important, because if we just eat extra, it will all turn into fat. Even with an intense lifting program, some of that extra weight will be fat because the body simply can't turn all of it into muscle (but it does need the extra to build extra muscle). The commonly accepted limit to muscle growth is about 20lbs in the first year, getting progressively less as the years go by. Also, most say that the ratio of muscle to fat is 1:1, meaning for every pound of muscle gained, the body will also store 1 lb of fat. Once people have reached their goal weight or too high of a body fat % (usually around 15%), they will cut to lose the fat. Its still important here to lift regularly and eat enough protein to let the body know that it needs to keep the muscle during the cut. BTW, without lifting, the body will tend to keep fat over muscle since its a richer source of energy.
What you described is called a recomp. This is where people eat a maintenance calories (no extra) while lifting heavy. Over time, one can build muscles with the benefit of staying lean the entire time and not having to do a cut. The downside is that its a much slower process than doing a bulk/cut cycle.
What do you think will happen if the person starting the bulk already has too much body fat????
Couldn't the same be said about someone cutting when they have too little body fat?
I don't think I mentioned anything about the starting point of the individuals body fat.
Is the part in bold the important part? Doesn't that go bulk then cut? Like I said?
Or am I misreading something?
Guess you didn't read the thread before you commented. It was recommended she first *kitten* her bf before bulk/cut or cut/bulk/cut
Yes but what I wanted to highlight is the importance of the startinf bf before you choose0 -
cut then bulk
or cut then body recomp
I prefer body recomp personally0 -
I cut for 5 months last year, then I bulked for 5 months, and now I'm cutting again! 0
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Currently trying to cut, then bulk during autumn/winter. First I want to lose the fat to see what can be done later on or something...0
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Starting BF%, starting LBM, and long-term goals are all important considerations.
If you feel your BF% is just way too high, then start with a cut.
If your BF% is not extremely high, but you have very little muscle mass, then you may want to start with a bulk. Some people with low LBM cut down only to find their look is not aesthetically pleasing to them because they are just too thin.
If your BF% is not extremely high, and you already have a decent amount of muscle mass, then start with a cut.
With that said, you also have to consider your long-term goal. Some powerlifters never do a true cut and never get below 15% BF (males). They bulk at higher BF% successfully. Yes, they miss out on optimal nutrient partitioning, but they don't care if they bulk at 1:1 or 0.8:1 because their primary objective is to get stronger. Conversely, some physique competitors never do a true bulk, instead they cycle recomps near the upper edge of maintenance because their primary objective is to stay below a certain BF% at all times.
For the average person who just wants to lose a few pounds to look better and maybe get a little stronger, and is at a point where they can't decide which to do first, cutting first may be a better choice because they will not have to worry about leptin depletion yet, and a lower BF% will provide better muscle definition and give the illusion of larger muscles. Also, after their cut, they will have the advantage of better nutrient partitioning during their next bulk, and the addition of extra fat at that point will probably not have such a negative psychological impact.0 -
My bf% is most likely pretty high.. I'm 133 but its seriously probably all fat. I have lost a lot of LBM just from lack of activity and BF from over eating. Cutting is just so difficult for me because i still have the appetite from when I was a competitive swimmer so I was thinking maybe the other way around would be easier for me. thanks for the help everyoneStarting BF%, starting LBM, and long-term goals are all important considerations.
If you feel your BF% is just way too high, then start with a cut.
If your BF% is not extremely high, but you have very little muscle mass, then you may want to start with a bulk. Some people with low LBM cut down only to find their look is not aesthetically pleasing to them because they are just too thin.
If your BF% is not extremely high, and you already have a decent amount of muscle mass, then start with a cut.
With that said, you also have to consider your long-term goal. Some powerlifters never do a true cut and never get below 15% BF (males). They bulk at higher BF% successfully. Yes, they miss out on optimal nutrient partitioning, but they don't care if they bulk at 1:1 or 0.8:1 because their primary objective is to get stronger. Conversely, some physique competitors never do a true bulk, instead they cycle recomps near the upper edge of maintenance because their primary objective is to stay below a certain BF% at all times.
For the average person who just wants to lose a few pounds to look better and maybe get a little stronger, and is at a point where they can't decide which to do first, cutting first may be a better choice because they will not have to worry about leptin depletion yet, and a lower BF% will provide better muscle definition and give the illusion of larger muscles. Also, after their cut, they will have the advantage of better nutrient partitioning during their next bulk, and the addition of extra fat at that point will probably not have such a negative psychological impact.0 -
Well, I have never done it before, but I am actually trying to cut now until I push my body fat to around 18% (which for a woman is substantially lean), and then I will see. I have heard of "clean bulking", which is very slow, almost like a regular recomp, and helps keep the body fat percentage pretty low while very slowly gaining on low intermittent surpluses. Or something. I still need to study more to make sure I know what I'm doing.
But first things first, cutting.0 -
My bf% is most likely pretty high.. I'm 133 but its seriously probably all fat. I have lost a lot of LBM just from lack of activity and BF from over eating. Cutting is just so difficult for me because i still have the appetite from when I was a competitive swimmer so I was thinking maybe the other way around would be easier for me. thanks for the help everyoneStarting BF%, starting LBM, and long-term goals are all important considerations.
If you feel your BF% is just way too high, then start with a cut.
If your BF% is not extremely high, but you have very little muscle mass, then you may want to start with a bulk. Some people with low LBM cut down only to find their look is not aesthetically pleasing to them because they are just too thin.
If your BF% is not extremely high, and you already have a decent amount of muscle mass, then start with a cut.
With that said, you also have to consider your long-term goal. Some powerlifters never do a true cut and never get below 15% BF (males). They bulk at higher BF% successfully. Yes, they miss out on optimal nutrient partitioning, but they don't care if they bulk at 1:1 or 0.8:1 because their primary objective is to get stronger. Conversely, some physique competitors never do a true bulk, instead they cycle recomps near the upper edge of maintenance because their primary objective is to stay below a certain BF% at all times.
For the average person who just wants to lose a few pounds to look better and maybe get a little stronger, and is at a point where they can't decide which to do first, cutting first may be a better choice because they will not have to worry about leptin depletion yet, and a lower BF% will provide better muscle definition and give the illusion of larger muscles. Also, after their cut, they will have the advantage of better nutrient partitioning during their next bulk, and the addition of extra fat at that point will probably not have such a negative psychological impact.
If you were a competitive swimmer, then you must have a good amount of muscle left, even though you say you lost some of it. I would recommend a cut even though it sounds like you will hate it at first. The appetite adjusts quickly to both deficits and surpluses. For me, it is only a couple weeks before the appetite adjusts to the new calorie level.
Whichever way you choose first, you are on a good path. People that do bulk/cut cycles usually end up with very impressive physiques. Good Luck.0
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