Exercise more... But eat WAY more
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sarahwade0927 wrote: »
Whether or not these foods are 'hybrids', they're typically a better nutritional and caloric choice than a Snickers bar because they're not processed and do not grow 'naturally'. You can't plant a Snickers tree. Basically, if you can grow it, it's much better for you than most of the processed stuff you can buy.
You seem to be conflating several concepts here - - caloric density, nutritional density, and processing.
Whether or not something grows "naturally" seems pretty irrelevant. Of course we should consider the nutritional and caloric density of the foods we eat - - but awarding extra points because it "grows naturally" seems silly. If a Snickers bar is a poor choice at a given time due to the other foods consumed that day, it has nothing to do with the fact that it didn't grow directly from a tree.
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tedboosalis7 wrote: »80/20 - Diet is 80% and Exercise is 20% of being completely fit. This proves that eating calorie-dense foods no matter the exercise will cause one to gain FAT. If you eat nutrient-dense foods over the long run, you will lose FAT no matter how much you exercise. That's why this whole mantra of eating whatever you want but fitting it within your calorie goals DOESN'T work. You can do this short-term, but when you scale-up your meals once the weight loss occurs, you will just gain it all back (and more). @sarahwade0927 - you are right!
You only gain the weight back if you start eating above maintenance - that goes for any kind of food that you eat.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »I always see calories from cardio as a way of padding out my calorie allowance. The bulk of my fat loss comes from diet.
For most people it will come from diet because its a lot easier to eat 500 less than burn 500 more. Also the effect of exercise is direcly dependent on how much you do (intensity and duration) and you have to do a lot for the direct calorie burn to be significant.
One of the other reasons I am not hungry after gym is because I drink so much water on those days. I cna imagine its annoying if gym makes you hungrier and am lad it doesnt affect me that way.
I am thankful for that as well. I can imagine how maddening it must be to be famished after a workout. I enjoy the buzz it gives me as well as the great side effects, quality sleep, focus (mental), attitude, etc. Also what you mentioned about water. I am making the habit of drinking a lot directly after and/or durning workouts, then I am far from hungry after.0 -
Well there's the mindset of 'I exercised, I can eat that' and being totally way off, and the fact that exercising can make you much hungrier too.
A few years ago I joined a gym and I was so hungry after 30 minutes on the treadmill, that I would stop at Burger King on the way home (I know, it's sad). So this time I learned my lesson and decided to get the diet under control first, and started exercise 2 weeks later.
But yeah... I see people run a 5k and use it as an excuse to eat 1000 calories of food and I scratch my head... I'd burn maybe 350 calories running that. I used to think that runners could eat pretty much anything... now not so much...0 -
The difference in reality and perception of caloric burn can be huge. This study with 30 minutes of walking three times per week ... 90 minutes of low intensity activity ... didn't burn a lot of calories. A 200 pound person walking at 3mph nets under 300 total calories for the week from that level of activity so eating a mere extra 50 calories per day negates any caloric deficit.0
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I'm not clear on why people are saying the study is bogus because the treadmill group only did three sessions of 30 minutes per week of treadmill work. There was a statistically-significant difference in weight gain between that group and the control group. I think the fact that the exercise group didn't do that much exercise and still gained weight underscores the point--there is a danger of mentally feeling like one can eat whatever they want because they exercised.0
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Yesterday I went kayaking all day. I am incredibly sore today. It was fun being on the water for so long, I really pushed myself and I felt what I call "good-tired" afterwards (tired from physical activity-- not boredom, not stress, etc.).
But I was about 500 cals over my limit. We packed a good lunch but I was famished when I got home. I drank a big glass of water, but my stomach was still growling. I ate cheese and crackers, some olives, and some chips and salsa-- all before dinner. I ended the day 500 cals over my limit. This was frustrating as I had worked so hard physically. The joy of being on the water was good for the spirit-- I don't want to minimize that. But I wish I could have kept to a deficit.
To the OP... You did an all day activity, that is likely outside of your normal daily activity. You ended the day 500 calories over your limit. Did you factor into your calories burn for the day the activity that you did? You may have burnt well over 500 calories doing a full day of kayaking. So if you didn't allow some additional calories for this all day activity, you may not have been over your net calories for the day and may well have had a deficit for the day.0 -
Yep. I cannot convince my IRL fitness friend of this. We work out together every day, fairly moderately, for about half an hour. It's not a huge burn at all. Without fail, she'll follow our workouts with a 44oz Coke or full-size Snickers because "I need the sugar after a workout." I've lost 7lbs since we started our journey together; she's gained ten... but she won't listen to me when I tell her that she's eating back more than twice what she burned. (She's very into the Cosmo "diet-mag" weight loss philosophies, though I did recently get her to join MFP so there may be hope.)
I understand it, because I was immensely frustrated when I started here two years ago and faced the truth of what I need, what I burn, and what I can eat if I want to lose weight. Denial is nicer in a lot of ways. It's hard to face the idea that even when you're exhausting yourself in the gym you're not actually burning much. It's hard to understand that the 40 minutes you spent nearly killing yourself on the trails or under the deadlift bar didn't earn you much of anything. I kind of think, though -- if you don't want to face those realities, you aren't really ready to lose weight. It sucks, but it's reality.0 -
RosieRose7673 wrote: »Yeah I see that. Lots of people will exercise a bit and the justify eating tons of food. I used to work at the Cheesecake Factory and I remember hearing people say, "oh! I ran 2 miles today! I can have that cheesecake!" They would proceed to eat the entire cheesecake after finishing off their main meal. Their entire caloric intake for that meal would probably have been in the range of 2000-3000 calories.
I'm not saying your justifying anything at all. You know about nutrition and how to lose weight you just had an off day! 500 calories isn't that bad! But I think a vast majority of people feel that if they do a little exercise... They can stuff whatever they want into their mouths!
This is kind of how MFP works though, but within reason obviously. Exercise enough and enter it into MFP and it will allow you to eat that cheasecake!0 -
After hard exercise and being tired (and especially when being weekend warrior sore for two or three days after) you may also be cannibalizing NEAT calories you would have otherwise burned.0
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I can relate the other week i went hiking at 6am so i was up since 5, and the rest of the day I could not stop eating. Then yesterday I went biking at 7am was up since 6am and ended up going over calories again and ended up sleeping for almost 12 hrs. I think being out of shape since Im in school at my desk 10-12 hrs I try to take breaks and do 10-15 work out but hopefully once i get into shape my body will not have to eat and sleep so much to recover.0
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Yep. I cannot convince my IRL fitness friend of this. We work out together every day, fairly moderately, for about half an hour. It's not a huge burn at all. Without fail, she'll follow our workouts with a 44oz Coke or full-size Snickers because "I need the sugar after a workout." I've lost 7lbs since we started our journey together; she's gained ten... but she won't listen to me when I tell her that she's eating back more than twice what she burned. (She's very into the Cosmo "diet-mag" weight loss philosophies, though I did recently get her to join MFP so there may be hope.)
I understand it, because I was immensely frustrated when I started here two years ago and faced the truth of what I need, what I burn, and what I can eat if I want to lose weight. Denial is nicer in a lot of ways. It's hard to face the idea that even when you're exhausting yourself in the gym you're not actually burning much. It's hard to understand that the 40 minutes you spent nearly killing yourself on the trails or under the deadlift bar didn't earn you much of anything. I kind of think, though -- if you don't want to face those realities, you aren't really ready to lose weight. It sucks, but it's reality.
You'll be a good influence on her, hopefully. Congrats on your progress 7 Lbs Awesome! I just out of curiosity looked up 44 oz coke and full size snickers bar, so 462 + 250 = 712, 30 minutes moderate intensity workout even burning 1/2 the 712 is still 356 calorie burn (that's a hella burn for 1/2 hour) so yeah more than 2x the amount she's eating back. Well, I think your a good friend for working out with her and pointing this out. Has she started her account on MFP yet? This site has and still is helping me big time Again Kudos to You!
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janejellyroll wrote: »sarahwade0927 wrote: »
Whether or not these foods are 'hybrids', they're typically a better nutritional and caloric choice than a Snickers bar because they're not processed and do not grow 'naturally'. You can't plant a Snickers tree. Basically, if you can grow it, it's much better for you than most of the processed stuff you can buy.
You seem to be conflating several concepts here - - caloric density, nutritional density, and processing.
Whether or not something grows "naturally" seems pretty irrelevant. Of course we should consider the nutritional and caloric density of the foods we eat - - but awarding extra points because it "grows naturally" seems silly. If a Snickers bar is a poor choice at a given time due to the other foods consumed that day, it has nothing to do with the fact that it didn't grow directly from a tree.
For the record, a regular size Snickers bar is 250 calories: this is the equivalent of eating one large apple and banana (231 cals). Also, the fruit has about 12 g more sugar, though it of course also has fibre, which is good. There’s nothing wrong with eating a Snickers bar.
The article is definitely interesting, at least for showing the importance to tracking CICO: it’s easy to overestimate CO and underestimate CI. Thanks for sharing it!
P.S. @vinerie I don’t think anyone is saying the study is bogus per say, but that it created the conditions for the result: walking doesn’t burn that many calories at all, so it’s very easy for the mentality of “I’m exercising and thus can eat more” to have tangible effects. It’s still an illustrative outcome.0 -
People gaining weight (and not losing it--despite weight loss being the reason many people decide to train for a marathon) is a common thing in marathon training, from what I understand. I did a marathon back in '06, when I was quite fit already and had established habits of watching portion size and eating pretty well, and I was among those who gained weight, although only about 5 lbs or so, and for me it was less about being hungry the day of my long run--I'm sure I always ate less than maintenance on that particular day, although I wasn't specifically counting calories--but that having such an out of whack day in terms of exercise regularly seemed to confuse me and I felt like I could eat whatever (and did eat more) through the rest of the week. But my runs throughout the rest of the week weren't any greater than what I'd been doing before starting the marathon training.
More recently I went on a week long biking vacation where I was biking 50-100 miles per day and basically maintained (maybe put on a bit, hard to tell with the way the plane messes me up) instead of losing like I'd somehow convinced myself was likely. There it definitely was the feeling that given all my activity I could eat anything I wanted (and also being with a group of people who generally felt the same way, and on vacation). Now, this made for a lovely vacation, but that attitude in general, just because I do try to work out hard, would be a problem. BUT, since I have figured my TDEE based on my estimated exercise and actual results, it's not a problem, since I don't have unrealistic expectations.0 -
Yep. I cannot convince my IRL fitness friend of this. We work out together every day, fairly moderately, for about half an hour. It's not a huge burn at all. Without fail, she'll follow our workouts with a 44oz Coke or full-size Snickers because "I need the sugar after a workout." I've lost 7lbs since we started our journey together; she's gained ten... but she won't listen to me when I tell her that she's eating back more than twice what she burned. (She's very into the Cosmo "diet-mag" weight loss philosophies, though I did recently get her to join MFP so there may be hope.)
I understand it, because I was immensely frustrated when I started here two years ago and faced the truth of what I need, what I burn, and what I can eat if I want to lose weight. Denial is nicer in a lot of ways. It's hard to face the idea that even when you're exhausting yourself in the gym you're not actually burning much. It's hard to understand that the 40 minutes you spent nearly killing yourself on the trails or under the deadlift bar didn't earn you much of anything. I kind of think, though -- if you don't want to face those realities, you aren't really ready to lose weight. It sucks, but it's reality.
You'll be a good influence on her, hopefully. Congrats on your progress 7 Lbs Awesome! I just out of curiosity looked up 44 oz coke and full size snickers bar, so 462 + 250 = 712, 30 minutes moderate intensity workout even burning 1/2 the 712 is still 356 calorie burn (that's a hella burn for 1/2 hour) so yeah more than 2x the amount she's eating back. Well, I think your a good friend for working out with her and pointing this out. Has she started her account on MFP yet? This site has and still is helping me big time Again Kudos to You!
Thanks for the kudos; I lost nearly 70lbs here over 2013-214 and regained quite a bit through sheer laziness, so... it's good to be back on the horse! My friend has started an account here and begun logging, which is a great step. She's resistant to the idea of weighing and measuring her foods, though -- she's one of those who's convinced she "doesn't eat that much" and is "great at portion control." Sigh. She also told me the other day that she "usually eats less than 600 calories a day," and when I gently pointed out that her body didn't create 40 extra pounds out of nowhere she was extremely resistant to reevaluating her intake. So, you know, it's a process, but she is taking baby steps into reality, and she's a GREAT friend & workout buddy.
I wonder where this general idea that gentle, short-duration exercise burns tons of calories comes from? I'm very tall and very heavy, but 30-60 minutes of moderately intense cardio (stationary bike, walking) only burns 200-250 calories. Most women are shorter and slimmer than I am, but think going for a 20-minute stroll burns enough calories for a McDonald's spree. Where did this start?0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Exercise for fitness, not weight loss.
Loads of people overestimate their burn, so they spend 45 minutes in the gym then treat themselves to a muffin... Burn 300 cals, eat 500...
ThisTimothyFish wrote: »All last summer, I rode my bicycle more than I had in quite a while and at the end of summer I decided to step on the scales because I was convinced that I must have lost several pounds. I was two pounds less than the highest weight I had ever seen on the scale. All the exercise in the world won't help you lose weight if you don't watch what you eat.
And this.
I gained weight while running 3 or 4 miles a few times a week because I was eating too much.
In my opinion, weight loss is 100% diet, exercise is 100% fitness. However, together they are 200% magic.
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Not always. Some of those foods people see as healthy can have more calorie than something that is unhealthy. Food is food. Everything in moderation.sarahwade0927 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »llUndecidedll wrote: »
Yes. I know we have plenty of hybrids.
So to talk about what nature "gave us" is somewhat misleading.
I think what this poster is saying is that more naturally occurring foods (fruits and veges) are harder to over eat simply because the caloric intake for a large serving size is usually less. Whether or not these foods are 'hybrids', they're typically a better nutritional and caloric choice than a Snickers bar because they're not processed and do not grow 'naturally'. You can't plant a Snickers tree. Basically, if you can grow it, it's much better for you than most of the processed stuff you can buy.
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I wonder where this general idea that gentle, short-duration exercise burns tons of calories comes from? I'm very tall and very heavy, but 30-60 minutes of moderately intense cardio (stationary bike, walking) only burns 200-250 calories. Most women are shorter and slimmer than I am, but think going for a 20-minute stroll burns enough calories for a McDonald's spree. Where did this start?
Haha, gentle. I like that. I think: wishful thinking and/or people being uneducated about exercise. Not to mention that most exercise calculators overestimate burns. The sad reality is that it just isn’t that easy to burn a lot of calories (by a lot I mean over 300). I burn about 300 on a 5k run, and that doesn’t earn me instant weight loss. It’s barely enough for a Snickers bar!
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TavistockToad wrote: »Exercise for fitness, not weight loss.
Loads of people overestimate their burn, so they spend 45 minutes in the gym then treat themselves to a muffin... Burn 300 cals, eat 500...
ThisTimothyFish wrote: »All last summer, I rode my bicycle more than I had in quite a while and at the end of summer I decided to step on the scales because I was convinced that I must have lost several pounds. I was two pounds less than the highest weight I had ever seen on the scale. All the exercise in the world won't help you lose weight if you don't watch what you eat.
weight loss is 100% diet, exercise is 100% fitness. However, together they are 200% magic.
sooooooooooo love this and stealing it!!!!!!0 -
karendellovo5964 wrote: »callsitlikeiseeit wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Exercise for fitness, not weight loss.
Loads of people overestimate their burn, so they spend 45 minutes in the gym then treat themselves to a muffin... Burn 300 cals, eat 500...
ThisTimothyFish wrote: »All last summer, I rode my bicycle more than I had in quite a while and at the end of summer I decided to step on the scales because I was convinced that I must have lost several pounds. I was two pounds less than the highest weight I had ever seen on the scale. All the exercise in the world won't help you lose weight if you don't watch what you eat.
weight loss is 100% diet, exercise is 100% fitness. However, together they are 200% magic.
sooooooooooo love this and stealing it!!!!!!
I'm glad you two like it! It certainly works for me.
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I wonder where this general idea that gentle, short-duration exercise burns tons of calories comes from? I'm very tall and very heavy, but 30-60 minutes of moderately intense cardio (stationary bike, walking) only burns 200-250 calories. Most women are shorter and slimmer than I am, but think going for a 20-minute stroll burns enough calories for a McDonald's spree. Where did this start?
Haha, gentle. I like that. I think: wishful thinking and/or people being uneducated about exercise. Not to mention that most exercise calculators overestimate burns. The sad reality is that it just isn’t that easy to burn a lot of calories (by a lot I mean over 300). I burn about 300 on a 5k run, and that doesn’t earn me instant weight loss. It’s barely enough for a Snickers bar! 0 -
From elsewhere on the Internet, doctors discussing a question on a sample medical licensing exam. The exam question asks what your patient, who is maintaining her current weight on 1800 calories a day, should do to lose weight. "Assume brisk walking consumes 500 calories per hour," says the question.
In no world will someone maintaining on 1800 burn 500 additional calories by walking for an hour. But I suspect every doctor who studies using that sample test thinks it does.0 -
From elsewhere on the Internet, doctors discussing a question on a sample medical licensing exam. The exam question asks what your patient, who is maintaining her current weight on 1800 calories a day, should do to lose weight. "Assume brisk walking consumes 500 calories per hour," says the question.
In no world will someone maintaining on 1800 burn 500 additional calories by walking for an hour. But I suspect every doctor who studies using that sample test thinks it does.
That would be nice. I have to push myself to get 310 at 70 minutes and i still assume maybe 1/2 those actual calories are burned0 -
From elsewhere on the Internet, doctors discussing a question on a sample medical licensing exam. The exam question asks what your patient, who is maintaining her current weight on 1800 calories a day, should do to lose weight. "Assume brisk walking consumes 500 calories per hour," says the question.
In no world will someone maintaining on 1800 burn 500 additional calories by walking for an hour. But I suspect every doctor who studies using that sample test thinks it does.
There is the issue.0 -
getalife9353 wrote: »Yesterday I went kayaking all day. I am incredibly sore today. It was fun being on the water for so long, I really pushed myself and I felt what I call "good-tired" afterwards (tired from physical activity-- not boredom, not stress, etc.).
But I was about 500 cals over my limit. We packed a good lunch but I was famished when I got home. I drank a big glass of water, but my stomach was still growling. I ate cheese and crackers, some olives, and some chips and salsa-- all before dinner. I ended the day 500 cals over my limit. This was frustrating as I had worked so hard physically. The joy of being on the water was good for the spirit-- I don't want to minimize that. But I wish I could have kept to a deficit.
To the OP... You did an all day activity, that is likely outside of your normal daily activity. You ended the day 500 calories over your limit. Did you factor into your calories burn for the day the activity that you did? You may have burnt well over 500 calories doing a full day of kayaking. So if you didn't allow some additional calories for this all day activity, you may not have been over your net calories for the day and may well have had a deficit for the day.
You could be right; I input kayaking in my exercise, but the amounts vary widely. I'm hoping I actually was in a deficit, as calculating a burn for something like that is quite difficult.0
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