A Calorie REALLY ISN'T a Calorie
Replies
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Oh my! How long until you guys roll this thing? I've wanted it to disappear for DAYS now!
Thread regret... :grumble:0 -
Oh my! How long until you guys roll this thing? I've wanted it to disappear for DAYS now!
Thread regret... :grumble:
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Oh my! How long until you guys roll this thing? I've wanted it to disappear for DAYS now!
Thread regret... :grumble:
Great minds and stuff...
FR sent!0 -
Oh my! How long until you guys roll this thing? I've wanted it to disappear for DAYS now!
Thread regret... :grumble:
Great minds and stuff...
FR sent!
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[/img]0 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If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
There is no problem with that.
The problem comes when she thinks sugar itself is the cause of her obesity because sugar is just bad, and she tries to convince other people that sugar is just automatically bad.
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If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
There is no problem with that.
The problem comes when she thinks sugar itself is the cause of her obesity because sugar is just bad, and she tries to convince other people that sugar is just automatically bad.
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It is certainly interesting how those who are bashing processed foods and blaming sugar for their levels of obesity are the ones with no pictures and locked diaries.
It wouldn't give you any reason to criticize me in either case. Be that as it may, I am entitled to my privacy. Too bad if you don't like it.
Sure it would. Any time you post up something on the internet, you open yourself up to criticism... too bad if you don't like it.
Be that as it may, I'm willing to bet your obesity issue and the obesity issues of other's is due to eating over your calorie intake on a consistent basis, coupled with your lack of exercise. The enemy isn't sugar, it's you.
If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
I'd say that sugar caused her to eat more foods that ruined her calorie counts. Without some examination of the diary, it's just a guessing game.0 -
It is certainly interesting how those who are bashing processed foods and blaming sugar for their levels of obesity are the ones with no pictures and locked diaries.
It wouldn't give you any reason to criticize me in either case. Be that as it may, I am entitled to my privacy. Too bad if you don't like it.
Sure it would. Any time you post up something on the internet, you open yourself up to criticism... too bad if you don't like it.
Be that as it may, I'm willing to bet your obesity issue and the obesity issues of other's is due to eating over your calorie intake on a consistent basis, coupled with your lack of exercise. The enemy isn't sugar, it's you.
If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
I'd say that sugar caused her to eat more foods that ruined her calorie counts. Without some examination of the diary, it's just a guessing game.
Yes, indeed.0 -
Yes but it wasn't the sugar. It was the calories.
A calorie restricted diet would work if you eat a lot of sugar or not. That is IF you can stay on that diet while eating lots of sugar0 -
Yes but it wasn't the sugar. It was the calories.
A calorie restricted diet would work if you eat a lot of sugar or not. That is IF you can stay on that diet while eating lots of sugar
I've pointed that out in a couple other posts in this thread and others. Obviously, calorie deficits can work. However, I feel like any discussion of actual dietary philosophy (meaning, something more than "eat less calories than you take in") that doesn't include maintainability and healthfulness is probably one that isn't looking at the whole issue.
It's very individualized when you start to see "what diet can a person actually maintain, long term".0 -
Yes but it wasn't the sugar. It was the calories.
A calorie restricted diet would work if you eat a lot of sugar or not. That is IF you can stay on that diet while eating lots of sugar
I've pointed that out in a couple other posts in this thread and others. Obviously, calorie deficits can work. However, I feel like any discussion of actual dietary philosophy (meaning, something more than "eat less calories than you take in") that doesn't include maintainability and healthfulness is probably one that isn't looking at the whole issue.
It's very individualized when you start to see "what diet can a person actually maintain, long term".
No one is saying eat a diet solely containing sugar, they are arguing for moderation. I would say a restrictive diet completely removing sugar is far less maintainlable in the long term.
Again though, that would only address her lack of self control. The main issue is pawning it off on others and shaming people for it.0 -
Clearly sugar is to blame.0 -
Yes but it wasn't the sugar. It was the calories.
A calorie restricted diet would work if you eat a lot of sugar or not. That is IF you can stay on that diet while eating lots of sugar
I've pointed that out in a couple other posts in this thread and others. Obviously, calorie deficits can work. However, I feel like any discussion of actual dietary philosophy (meaning, something more than "eat less calories than you take in") that doesn't include maintainability and healthfulness is probably one that isn't looking at the whole issue.
It's very individualized when you start to see "what diet can a person actually maintain, long term".
A calorie deficit WILL work for her. Sugar or not. If both diets = the exact same calories, the results should be the same. Period.
If eating sugar makes that person eat MORE calories, it's still a calorie thing0 -
i think the biggest problem is people not applying common sense to their diet rather than over exagerated science
this!
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Yes but it wasn't the sugar. It was the calories.
A calorie restricted diet would work if you eat a lot of sugar or not. That is IF you can stay on that diet while eating lots of sugar
I've pointed that out in a couple other posts in this thread and others. Obviously, calorie deficits can work. However, I feel like any discussion of actual dietary philosophy (meaning, something more than "eat less calories than you take in") that doesn't include maintainability and healthfulness is probably one that isn't looking at the whole issue.
It's very individualized when you start to see "what diet can a person actually maintain, long term".
A calorie deficit WILL work for her. Sugar or not. If both diets = the exact same calories, the results should be the same. Period.
If eating sugar makes that person eat MORE calories, it's still a calorie thing
Which is why I pointed out that maintainability is an issue -- if you just want to keep pushing someone towards a diet that they have proven over and over that they can't maintain, that's fine, but you're likely to receive the same results. Calories are measurable, which makes it easy to not have to think too deeply about it. Issues such as satiety and how hormonal control plays into hunger are important, too.
I tried just doing calorie deficits. I lost weight. Success, right? I hated every minute of it, felt deprived, and was hungry all the damn time. Long term, not sustainable for me. Cut the sugar out, dropped to a low carb/high fat diet, and have no problems with feeling deprived or hungry anymore, and have continued to lose weight without a problem.
In both of these diets, a calorie was a little over 4 joules. However, which calories I consumed influenced the factors around the diet itself, which ultimately influenced whether or not I stuck with the diet. Ergo, the calories were not the same for me.
I don't think it's useful to slam people for their dietary choices, regardless of what they choose. I also don't think it's all that useful to point out "a calorie is just a calorie" and "if you only had willpower" if someone is struggling with a particular diet.0 -
I agree. But your posts came off as sugar = sole reason for success.
If sugar makes a person crave other crap and that kills their calorie counts, then sure, they should find an alternative.
My evil is salt. Chips actually. I eat popcorn as an alternative.
I haven't slammed anyone's diet. Just posting the logic behind it so people can understand the "why" behind their choices. Vs stating "sugar bad"0 -
I agree. But your posts came off as sugar = sole reason for success.
If sugar makes a person crave other crap and that kills their calorie counts, then sure, they should find an alternative.
My evil is salt. Chips actually. I eat popcorn as an alternative.
I haven't slammed anyone's diet. Just posting the logic behind it so people can understand the "why" behind their choices. Vs stating "sugar bad"
I actually go out of my way to not vilify any one thing (in terms of a general rule, not at an individual diet level) -- if it came off as such, my apologies. My argument is that if all else were equal in the diet, and removing the sugar helped her stick to it, that removing the sugar was a main reason for success (success defined as maintainable and healthy). Obviously, absent a deficit, she wouldn't have been successful on any diet, so...yeah. It's a semantic thing at that point.
I never stated that sugar is evil or shouldn't be in anyone's diet. I think that there is evidence that sugar intake is linked to different disease states, which (if I set the recommendations) would likely lead me to recommend that people not intake more than moderate amounts of it, but we can disagree on what moderate is. It's just that the healthy range for that particular nutrient starts at 0, whereas the range for fat and protein do not. The "n" on the other end is interesting to discuss, however, and I don't think the science is settled on what that upper limit may be (in terms of avoiding future disease states like insulin resistance, Type 2 diabetes, etc.)0 -
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[/img]0
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My own research turned up the crudeness of the methodology by which they come up with the calories on packages. It made me decide that, for me, weighing and measuring food is something I should only bother with roughly since the numbers are not all that precise anyway.
It doesn't stop me from counting calories though. Rough estimates are still useful.
This. My body is not a bomb calorimeter, its not going to process food like one.
Rough estimates still allow you to compare food values between foods, and gives you a metric to track your intake. Even if its' not exact, it's probably *comparatively* accurate.0 -
Judging by the amount of hostility from sugar-eaters toward anyone who questions the safety of eating sugar, perhaps it IS part of the "world-problem" scenario. *cue* "What the world needs now, is
sweet ....it's the only thing that there's just too little of..." 
Sugar-eaters tell better jokes!
:laugh:
But non-sugar eaters are more pleasant folks.
We all eat sugar and didnt get obese because of it and we still are in better shape than the average person..
your lack of self control does not mean that sugar is at fault. it is nothing but yourself, so please stop.
And what lack of self-control would that be?? What I do is the ultimate in self-control. I went to a graduation today where they were serving cake and I politely declined. And you are going to paint that as lacking in self-control? You apparently have a very distorted notion of what that involves. Please stop what? Expressing my opinion? When you take ownership of this website, I guess you can eliminate those whose opinion you don't like--but until then, I will express my opinion whenever and in whatever thread I choose to. I suggest, if you find my opinion, so odious, that you refrain from participating.
The medical establishment has complained of the national obsession with sugar for some time--those who advocate eating sugar are swimming against the tide. There are many, many obese people who do not process carbohydrates well and who have a problem with high blood sugar/high insulin/insulin resistance. It is unreasonable for them to continue to eat a high carbohydrate diet and it is irrational to suggest that they do so. Many of them are incapable of exercise.0 -
It is certainly interesting how those who are bashing processed foods and blaming sugar for their levels of obesity are the ones with no pictures and locked diaries.
It wouldn't give you any reason to criticize me in either case. Be that as it may, I am entitled to my privacy. Too bad if you don't like it.
Sure it would. Any time you post up something on the internet, you open yourself up to criticism... too bad if you don't like it.
Be that as it may, I'm willing to bet your obesity issue and the obesity issues of other's is due to eating over your calorie intake on a consistent basis, coupled with your lack of exercise. The enemy isn't sugar, it's you.
I said it wouldn't give you any REASON to criticize me (NOT that I think it would stop you). I find that criticism rolls off my back when it is unfounded (such as yours is)--laughable really, if a bit pathetic. I am no longer obese. And I am an enemy to no one--it is irrational to accuse an anonymous person on the internet with being "the enemy". :noway:0 -
It is certainly interesting how those who are bashing processed foods and blaming sugar for their levels of obesity are the ones with no pictures and locked diaries.
It wouldn't give you any reason to criticize me in either case. Be that as it may, I am entitled to my privacy. Too bad if you don't like it.
Sure it would. Any time you post up something on the internet, you open yourself up to criticism... too bad if you don't like it.
Be that as it may, I'm willing to bet your obesity issue and the obesity issues of other's is due to eating over your calorie intake on a consistent basis, coupled with your lack of exercise. The enemy isn't sugar, it's you.
If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
There is no problem with that.
The problem comes when she thinks sugar itself is the cause of her obesity because sugar is just bad, and she tries to convince other people that sugar is just automatically bad.
Oh? And tell me just what is good about it? It is denatured carbohydrate---more like a drug than a food. One obesity researcher said that if it were introduced today, if would likely be banned by the FDA.0 -
It is certainly interesting how those who are bashing processed foods and blaming sugar for their levels of obesity are the ones with no pictures and locked diaries.
It wouldn't give you any reason to criticize me in either case. Be that as it may, I am entitled to my privacy. Too bad if you don't like it.
Sure it would. Any time you post up something on the internet, you open yourself up to criticism... too bad if you don't like it.
Be that as it may, I'm willing to bet your obesity issue and the obesity issues of other's is due to eating over your calorie intake on a consistent basis, coupled with your lack of exercise. The enemy isn't sugar, it's you.
If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
I'd say that sugar caused her to eat more foods that ruined her calorie counts. Without some examination of the diary, it's just a guessing game.
My diary would show you nothing. I never go over my calorie goals and I probably eat a healthier diet than all of you who advocate eating sugar. I lose weight consistently and I have not relapsed or gained a single ounce in three years. You are incredibly presumptuous to assume that you know more about me and my body and my diet than I do. By the way, making slanderous accusations about another member is against the MFP rules for the forums.0 -
It is certainly interesting how those who are bashing processed foods and blaming sugar for their levels of obesity are the ones with no pictures and locked diaries.
It wouldn't give you any reason to criticize me in either case. Be that as it may, I am entitled to my privacy. Too bad if you don't like it.
Sure it would. Any time you post up something on the internet, you open yourself up to criticism... too bad if you don't like it.
Be that as it may, I'm willing to bet your obesity issue and the obesity issues of other's is due to eating over your calorie intake on a consistent basis, coupled with your lack of exercise. The enemy isn't sugar, it's you.
If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
There is no problem with that.
The problem comes when she thinks sugar itself is the cause of her obesity because sugar is just bad, and she tries to convince other people that sugar is just automatically bad.
Oh? And tell me just what is good about it? It is denatured carbohydrate---more like a drug than a food. One obesity researcher said that if it were introduced today, if would likely be banned by the FDA.
It may come as a surprise to you that most of the things you eat are ultimately converted to glucose by the body before being used for energy.
Sugar is energy.0 -
Yes but it wasn't the sugar. It was the calories.
A calorie restricted diet would work if you eat a lot of sugar or not. That is IF you can stay on that diet while eating lots of sugar
I've pointed that out in a couple other posts in this thread and others. Obviously, calorie deficits can work. However, I feel like any discussion of actual dietary philosophy (meaning, something more than "eat less calories than you take in") that doesn't include maintainability and healthfulness is probably one that isn't looking at the whole issue.
It's very individualized when you start to see "what diet can a person actually maintain, long term".
No one is saying eat a diet solely containing sugar, they are arguing for moderation. I would say a restrictive diet completely removing sugar is far less maintainlable in the long term.
Again though, that would only address her lack of self control. The main issue is pawning it off on others and shaming people for it.
I've maintained it for three years and it gets easier and easier to maintain it, not harder. I shame no one--if you feel shamed, that really is your problem, not mine. It really is no concern of mine if you stuff yourself with sugar. I just tell others what works for me and keeps my mind and body well-nourished. Malnutrition can affect the mind it seems.0 -
Agreed.0
-
By the way, making slanderous accusations about another member is against the MFP rules for the forums.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.0 -
It is certainly interesting how those who are bashing processed foods and blaming sugar for their levels of obesity are the ones with no pictures and locked diaries.
It wouldn't give you any reason to criticize me in either case. Be that as it may, I am entitled to my privacy. Too bad if you don't like it.
Sure it would. Any time you post up something on the internet, you open yourself up to criticism... too bad if you don't like it.
Be that as it may, I'm willing to bet your obesity issue and the obesity issues of other's is due to eating over your calorie intake on a consistent basis, coupled with your lack of exercise. The enemy isn't sugar, it's you.
If cutting out sugar gave her a diet that is maintainable and allowed her to achieve her goals, when simple calorie restriction did not, I fail to see the problem with saying that sugar was an issue in her diet.
There is no problem with that.
The problem comes when she thinks sugar itself is the cause of her obesity because sugar is just bad, and she tries to convince other people that sugar is just automatically bad.
Oh? And tell me just what is good about it? It is denatured carbohydrate---more like a drug than a food. One obesity researcher said that if it were introduced today, if would likely be banned by the FDA.
It may come as a surprise to you that most of the things you eat are ultimately converted to glucose by the body before being used for energy.
Sugar is energy.
I'm quite aware of the bio-chemistry---but the obsessive focus on the macro-nutrients at the expense of the micro-nutrients is to do a disservice to one's body. When sub-optimal food is consumed at the expense of more nourishing food, it can lead to undesirable health outcomes.0 -
By the way, making slanderous accusations about another member is against the MFP rules for the forums.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Some of the accusations have been downright slanderous. In general slander is oral communication, not written, but the forums are, in nature, a spoken communication because it involves a back and forth. Here is a page that gives a definition: http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/S/Slander.aspx
In any case, MFP terms it "gossip" and it is even against the rules to attack a participants written language.0 -
Yes but it wasn't the sugar. It was the calories.
A calorie restricted diet would work if you eat a lot of sugar or not. That is IF you can stay on that diet while eating lots of sugar
I've pointed that out in a couple other posts in this thread and others. Obviously, calorie deficits can work. However, I feel like any discussion of actual dietary philosophy (meaning, something more than "eat less calories than you take in") that doesn't include maintainability and healthfulness is probably one that isn't looking at the whole issue.
It's very individualized when you start to see "what diet can a person actually maintain, long term".
A calorie deficit WILL work for her. Sugar or not. If both diets = the exact same calories, the results should be the same. Period.
If eating sugar makes that person eat MORE calories, it's still a calorie thing
Hate to burst your bubble, but we get back to the OP on this one. A calorie's worth of carbohydrate is treated differently by my body than a calorie's worth of protein and/or fat. I choose the foods I do to maximize the loss of body fat for ME. I went on many a calorie-restricted diet in the past, and though I lost weight, I probably lost as much muscle as fat--setting me up for regain. The crash-diets I followed were even worse--because I was malnourished at the end.0
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