Sprinting is so much better,
rileyes
Posts: 1,406 Member
All you MFPers have made me want to run. And I suck at it! But, I'm learning. And, I am finding, jogging at a slow pace seems more painful on the shins than sprinting (treadmill or street). Am I right? What is your experience?
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If your body isn't prepared to run slowly, you're just asking for injury by trying to sprint.
It's only a matter of time...
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No shin pain here. I did get a side stitch the other day, but I powered through it until the end of my workout. I'm getting ready to start week 6 of Zombies,Run!5k (after repeating week 5).
My husband who doesn't run on a regular basis or do any C25K program like I do, did walk one lap/run 2 laps around the gym track for the equivalent of 3 miles a week or so ago and he had pretty bad shin pain after. I think he attempted to much to fast, but that's just my opinion.0 -
I think that might be right. One thing elite runners try to do is to glide over the ground -- that is, to stay light on their feet. When you jog slowly, you thud and plop. Every step is a hard step onto the ground. It is much easier to skim when you are going fast. Your feet reach out when you are going fast, and then they grab the earth and push it behind without really landing...at least, not so much.0
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shadow2soul wrote: »No shin pain here. I did get a side stitch the other day, but I powered through it until the end of my workout.
is this where you feel like you've been stabbed in your stomach/chest on one side when running? Because i have this everytime and i just cant handle it.0 -
If your body isn't prepared to run slowly, you're just asking for injury by trying to sprint.
It's only a matter of time...
Yeah. I don't want injuries. I am trying to stay aware of my form. I stay conditioned in other strength and cardio exercises. I learned that jogging slow (5.2) with quick and short strides relieved pressure on my shins. Then I bounced from 5.4 to 7(sprint for me) and found I could run with a natural stride with no pain. I was fitted with new shoes and that helped too.0 -
I think that might be right. One thing elite runners try to do is to glide over the ground -- that is, to stay light on their feet. When you jog slowly, you thud and plop. Every step is a hard step onto the ground. It is much easier to skim when you are going fast. Your feet reach out when you are going fast, and then they grab the earth and push it behind without really landing...at least, not so much.
That is what I was thinking!0 -
It's simple physics. You propel yourself forward faster with your feet when sprinting by expending greater energy. Thus when sprinting you are impacting your musculoskelatal system harder than jogging. There is no way around this. Anyone who thuds and plops simply has bad form and needs to learn how to run.0
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Unless you have some sort of underlying issue with your shins, the fact that they hurt more jogging slowly than sprinting is odd. Unless it's how you're running or your shoes, perhaps. I don't have shin pain when doing either one.0
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rainbowbow wrote: »shadow2soul wrote: »No shin pain here. I did get a side stitch the other day, but I powered through it until the end of my workout.
is this where you feel like you've been stabbed in your stomach/chest on one side when running? Because i have this everytime and i just cant handle it.
Yep that's it. It sucks.0 -
Unless you have some sort of underlying issue with your shins, the fact that they hurt more jogging slowly than sprinting is odd. Unless it's how you're running or your shoes, perhaps. I don't have shin pain when doing either one.
I don't experience any pain with quick and short strides at a slow jog or a natural stride in a sprint. It just feels uncomfortable when I try to jog slow with a natural stride.
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The problem could be your stride is too long when you are doing what you call a "natural stride". Too long of a stride can cause shin splints. Here is some info that may help.
http://runnersconnect.net/running-injury-prevention/the-ultimate-guide-to-shin-splints-for-runners/0 -
grimmeanor wrote: »It's simple physics. You propel yourself forward faster with your feet when sprinting by expending greater energy. Thus when sprinting you are impacting your musculoskelatal system harder than jogging. There is no way around this. Anyone who thuds and plops simply has bad form and needs to learn how to run.
Try it. Then get back to us.
Watch an elite sprinter. They stay up on their toes and throw the ground behind them.
Watch a slow jogger. They land on their heals or midfoot and every step brings them to a stop.
Oh yeah, and remember physics. Maybe Newton's second law. There is a vector here -- and momentum -- when you are moving forward.
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That is bad form, right there.Watch a slow jogger. They land on their heals or midfoot and every step brings them to a stop.
ETA: Landing on heels like that is a sure sign of "overstriding", which as mentioned is a cause for shin splints as this causes you to have to "pull" your leg back to your body to get it under you to push forward. This causes your tibia to bow on that "pull". It is a completely unnecessary stress and counterproductive to energy expenditure when running. You are running worse, and increasing your chance of injury.0 -
Actually, it is a pretty natural thing to do. A guy who was slowly jogging down the road, and prancing on his little tippy toes, would be fairly unusual and look pretty ridiculous, as proper as it might be.
Some joggers are forefoot strikers. Some are mid-foot or heal strikers. You could tell them they are wrong, but that is natural for them. They have tried to teach such people to get up on the balls of their feet and found that they cannot really be taught.
You can say people are doing it wrong. But that is the way many people do it.
Most do not when they sprint, however.0 -
Oh, there is no argument from me that people do this. Some people do run with bad form, and as you mention, are well aware of it. But to say that "jogging" is the problem is incorrect. It's improper form that is the root cause of the strain on the shins to a new runner who is running in such a manner.0
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I think the article @grimmeanor posted mentioned a new runner's need to build up slowly to strengthen the tibia. So it just may be inexperience. But there are some funky joggers out there! Hopefully I'm not one!
I also read a short and quick cadence alleviates pressure which coincides with the sprinting cadence. That seems to work for me. (Okay. I just may be one of those funky runners0 -
Sorry if there are duplicates my MFP is acting up! My text isn't showing up.0
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grimmeanor wrote: »Oh, there is no argument from me that people do this. Some people do run with bad form, and as you mention, are well aware of it. But to say that "jogging" is the problem is incorrect. It's improper form that is the root cause of the strain on the shins to a new runner who is running in such a manner.
nods.
I switched to a minimalist show to become less of a hell striker- and yes- I get judged for running on my tipie toes.
But no- I have no shin issues.0 -
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grimmeanor wrote: »Oh, there is no argument from me that people do this. Some people do run with bad form, and as you mention, are well aware of it. But to say that "jogging" is the problem is incorrect. It's improper form that is the root cause of the strain on the shins to a new runner who is running in such a manner.
Not that I completely disagree, but in my personal experience (I'm a sprinter, I'm scared to go more than 200m at a time, but I do do the odd 5km
) there is a point where the pace is awkward, too fast to walk, too slow to run smoothly, and at this point people tend to thud a lot. The easy answer is to say go faster (assuming you don't want to walk), but if you don't have the cardiovascular capability to do this, you're going to struggle if you want to maintain a constant pace. If you're happy to mix it up with intervals or similar, than it's not so bad.
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a short and quick cadence alleviates pressure which coincides with the sprinting cadence.
Cadence <> speed
Most competent runners will have a consistent cadence, with pace being driven by the distance covered in each stride.
Personally I'm at about 160-170 steps per minute, whether doing a 6 min km or a 4 min km.
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Not sure if you mean you get shin splints when you run or just a little soreness but if it is shin splints, you should stay away from running until they heal up. My wife use to run with me everyday and started developing shin splints. It took a good 3-4 months for them to go away. I also had them years ago and it also took a long time for them to go away. Sprinting I think will only make it worse.0
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All you MFPers have made me want to run. And I suck at it! But, I'm learning. And, I am finding, jogging at a slow pace seems more painful on the shins than sprinting (treadmill or street). Am I right? What is your experience?
Yes, it is a slightly different muscle set that you use when sprint versus jogging or walking. My calves are quite strong (especially relative to my shin musculature), so my body is better designed to sprint. That’s why I prefer doing a HIIT session over a 30 - 60 minute jog any day. But HIIT is something that should be limited to two times per week.0 -
I may look ridiculous, but I don't get injured, I run a lot, and I am one of the faster racers in my town. Over 50 years old with a 20:06 5k, 1:35:25 HM, and 3:32:12 marathon.Actually, it is a pretty natural thing to do. A guy who was slowly jogging down the road, and prancing on his little tippy toes, would be fairly unusual and look pretty ridiculous, as proper as it might be.
Good form works and allows you to run at any speed pain free.
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I think that might be right. One thing elite runners try to do is to glide over the ground -- that is, to stay light on their feet. When you jog slowly, you thud and plop. Every step is a hard step onto the ground. It is much easier to skim when you are going fast. Your feet reach out when you are going fast, and then they grab the earth and push it behind without really landing...at least, not so much.
Speed doesn't always influence form. A good runner can maintain good form/cadence no matter what the speed.0 -
Actually, it is a pretty natural thing to do. A guy who was slowly jogging down the road, and prancing on his little tippy toes, would be fairly unusual and look pretty ridiculous, as proper as it might be.
Some joggers are forefoot strikers. Some are mid-foot or heal strikers. You could tell them they are wrong, but that is natural for them. They have tried to teach such people to get up on the balls of their feet and found that they cannot really be taught.
You can say people are doing it wrong. But that is the way many people do it.
Most do not when they sprint, however.
If Desi Linden is wrong, who would want to be right?
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grimmeanor wrote: »
That is bad form, right there.Watch a slow jogger. They land on their heals or midfoot and every step brings them to a stop.
ETA: Landing on heels like that is a sure sign of "overstriding", which as mentioned is a cause for shin splints as this causes you to have to "pull" your leg back to your body to get it under you to push forward. This causes your tibia to bow on that "pull". It is a completely unnecessary stress and counterproductive to energy expenditure when running. You are running worse, and increasing your chance of injury.
There is no evidence that heel striking makes people more injury prone. The rates of injury between heel and forefoot strikers is pretty much the same.
http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/differences-in-injury-rates-between/ Also rather than being more efficient the science seems to show that heel striking is more efficient than forefoot striking http://www.runresearchjunkie.com/yet-another-study-shows-heel-striking-is-more-efficient-than-midfoot-striking/
The problem as I see it is the assumption that one size fits all just because forefoot striking or barefoot style running works for one person does not mean it works for everyone. The world record for the Marathon is held by someone who heel strikes for example. It's the use of the word Natural form what in reality does that mean it's a nonsense term. We are not all the same the way I run is going to be slightly different to everyone else because we are not all clones. The best bit of form advice I read was from Scott Jurek which was it doesn't matter if you heel or forefoot strike just run Light.0 -
I disagree that you cannot learn a new running form. A couple of years ago I was a heel striker and was suffering the usual low grade constant knee pains from running. I retaught myself midfoot striking and overall good form and have completely eliminated all pain. Plus, I have tried and I cannot heel strike and overstride anymore without a huge effort that feels totally unnatural.0
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I think the question really is "is it neccessary to relearn"?
All to often on these boards there is the ONE TRUE WAY approach; minimalist is best, forefoot strike is the only way to run etc. It's nearly as bad as the HIIT is better than steady state nonsense.
For some people, it could be beneficial, for others it may cause as many problems as just staying as-is.
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For the record, I'm not saying heel strikers need to change their form. I'm simply attempting to answer the OP's question of why she feels shin pain when "jogging" at a "natural stride" vs when she jogs at a "short and fast stride". Being a new runner who may not have built up skeletal strength, the likely answer is that it is the stress on the bones from overstriding.
If people want to overstride that is their choice, I'm not criticizing that. The only thing I am criticizing is any notion that "jogging" is worse for your shins than "sprinting".0
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