If gaining lean tissue is your primary goal do you lift weights in a fasted state or eat first?
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yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....0 -
rccatalano wrote: »The most important thing for building muscle with minimal fat gain is to eat a slight calorie surplus (300-500 cals, depending on your body's response) each day. In this regard, meal timing does not matter. However, a pre-workout meal is beneficial for a few reasons:
1. Carbs provide your muscles with glycogen, which allows for heavier and more intense lifts
2. Consuming protein before your workout helps mitigate the muscle breakdown that occurs when you lift
For these two reasons, I eat about 25g protein and 25g carbs roughly an hour before I lift. That, and because lifting heavy on an empty stomach sucks and I would never do that to myself
25g of carbs isn't really going to do much for muscle glycogen pre-workout. Elite athletes or individuals that train multiple times a day need to be concerned with replenishing muslce glycogen for their next bout, but for everyone else, muscle glycogen will replenish during the course of feeding. And while consuming protein pre-workout may lessen the amount of muscle protein breakdown, MPB will still occur. So the overall concern is net protein balance.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
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yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
Reading comprehension? I did answer your question.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
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dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
I fall into this category. If i eat within a few hours of training i will either throw up mid workout, on the drive home, or feel sick for an hour or two after working out.
I DO sip bcaas during my workout and have no issues with energy, performance, etc.
As said above, however, it is up to personal preference as neither is better than the other when it comes to building muscle.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
Slight difference in what way. More reps? less reps?
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yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
My point exactly. Everyone is different. I don't take C4 or any pre-workouts, because it makes me jittery more than anything. I took it once, thought I was having a heart attack, and had to stop mid-workout lol! A cup of coffee a day is more than enough to keep me going for hours at work. But that's me. Meal timing should be considered for performance. Performance and programming will dictate muscle growth.0 -
dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
My point exactly. Everyone is different. I don't take C4 or any pre-workouts, because it makes me jittery more than anything. I took it once, thought I was having a heart attack, and had to stop mid-workout lol! A cup of coffee a day is more than enough to keep me going for hours at work. But that's me. Meal timing should be considered for performance. Performance and programming will dictate muscle growth.
LOL
I remember the first time I did that w/ a pre-workout or used Cellucor SuperHD
Felt the same way....thought my heart was gonna explode out of my chest.0 -
I eat about a half hour before I train -- some protein and carbs -- otherwise I get too hungry in the middle of deadlifting, squatting, or benching. Occasionally, I need to eat a protien bar because I get to hungry while in gym.0
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yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
Slight difference in what way. More reps? less reps?
If I can recall, cause it has been a while....
I think I had a little bit more focus
I was a bit more anxious...I guess is how you could describe it....
But it wasn't enough to keep me wanting to continue to the buy the product......
Because over time, your body will get used to it....so you do need to take a break from it...
Which I have, and just never bought anymore.
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dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
My point exactly. Everyone is different. I don't take C4 or any pre-workouts, because it makes me jittery more than anything. I took it once, thought I was having a heart attack, and had to stop mid-workout lol! A cup of coffee a day is more than enough to keep me going for hours at work. But that's me. Meal timing should be considered for performance. Performance and programming will dictate muscle growth.
LOL
I remember the first time I did that w/ a pre-workout or used Cellucor SuperHD
Felt the same way....thought my heart was gonna explode out of my chest.
Lucky you, I was hospitalized for an anxiety attack because i thought i was having a stroke. Slurred speech, racing heart, hands shaking, numbness in my face, and unable to concentrate.
This was from the old formula of Jack3d.
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dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
My point exactly. Everyone is different. I don't take C4 or any pre-workouts, because it makes me jittery more than anything. I took it once, thought I was having a heart attack, and had to stop mid-workout lol! A cup of coffee a day is more than enough to keep me going for hours at work. But that's me. Meal timing should be considered for performance. Performance and programming will dictate muscle growth.
LOL
I remember the first time I did that w/ a pre-workout or used Cellucor SuperHD
Felt the same way....thought my heart was gonna explode out of my chest.
That not how I felt after drink like a 1/3 serving of C4. I used some of my friends. I did think I was the incredible hunk but don't remember reaching any PRs that workout.
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rainbowbow wrote: »
Lucky you, I was hospitalized for an anxiety attack because i thought i was having a stroke. Slurred speech, racing heart, hands shaking, numbness in my face, and unable to concentrate.
This was from the old formula of Jack3d.
Fun times LOL0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »
Lucky you, I was hospitalized for an anxiety attack because i thought i was having a stroke. Slurred speech, racing heart, hands shaking, numbness in my face, and unable to concentrate.
This was from the old formula of Jack3d.
Fun times LOL
Yep. hahaha. I stick to just the BCAAs now.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »dieselbyte wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »Muscle building happens the day after, so it really doesn't matter how you lift (fasted or not) the day before. Your nutrition should be consistent and ensure you consume enough protein on your rest day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well won't a pre workout meal have better performance which could stimulate more fiber tears right?
No, meal timing is personal preference for performance sake. Some individuals need a pre-workout meal. For others, if they eat within a few hours of training, it causes all types of issues and lowers performance.
You didn't answer my question. Also I am talking about performance so your first sentence was already said in my quote.
He did answer your question.
A person's performance in the gym will be determined by that person and how he feels.
If I felt I wasn't able to go 100% in the fasted state, then I wouldn't.
But my lifts have been great for 2 years now....
So you go fasted right. What if you took for example C4 your performance would be hinder?
I do fasted. Yes
I don't do a pre-workout other than Xtend BCAA's
I have done Psycho pre-workout by scivation....and performance was about the same.....but there was a difference.....slight difference.
But still workout was on par w/ others that were not with a pre-workout.
Slight difference in what way. More reps? less reps?
If I can recall, cause it has been a while....
I think I had a little bit more focus
I was a bit more anxious...I guess is how you could describe it....
But it wasn't enough to keep me wanting to continue to the buy the product......
Because over time, your body will get used to it....so you do need to take a break from it...
Which I have, and just never bought anymore.
So then you are agree that the pre workout did allow for more time under tension which we know what happens with that.
Also my apologizes for saying comment didn't answer my question. It did but the person I quoted knows that when I ask him a question that I want what he has seeing in the field and what he has studied.0 -
I don't recall it being more TUT
Just I didn't take into account other distractions in the gym.....0 -
It really is not that complicated, but people add more than necessary. Training and nutrition are totally separate things but there is interaction. In my opinion, THE single most important thing in training is intensity and intensity requires focus. So whether training fasted or fed is best decided by what give the most focus and intensity. Training itself is catabolic in that it breaks down muscle.
Nutrition takes that stimulus and uses it to produce muscle. Timing is relatively unimportant and as @dieselbyte has pointed out, feeding prior to training is not going to increase muscle glycogen. In the end, as has been stated, it is nothing more than a preference really. A preworkout is for some a way to increase intensity, but for others it is a distraction. Again, a personal decision.
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You're getting old.joejccva71 wrote: »Maybe I'm getting old then because i have a hell of a time remaining focused on heavy Squats and Deads while fasted.
Not saying that training fasted is best for everyone. Find you niche and work with it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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It really is not that complicated, but people add more than necessary. Training and nutrition are totally separate things but there is interaction. In my opinion, THE single most important thing in training is intensity and intensity requires focus. So whether training fasted or fed is best decided by what give the most focus and intensity. Training itself is catabolic in that it breaks down muscle.
Nutrition takes that stimulus and uses it to produce muscle. Timing is relatively unimportant and as @dieselbyte has pointed out, feeding prior to training is not going to increase muscle glycogen. In the end, as has been stated, it is nothing more than a preference really. A preworkout is for some a way to increase intensity, but for others it is a distraction. Again, a personal decision.
Well said!
/end thread0
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