Interesting link on: Exercise Can't Save Us From Too Much Sugar In Our Diets, Say Experts
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »I think people should read the original editorial, if they haven't already. The Forbes.com article on the link above missed a couple of the key points. The original is posted here:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2015/04/23/bjsports-2015-094911.full
The editorial is certainly another powerful endorsement for a low-carb and junk-free lifestyle. People who are convinced that they aren’t harming themselves by eating junk food when they have calories to ‘spare’ should take heed.
I particularly liked the part about members of the public being “drowned by an unhelpful message about maintaining a ‘healthy weight’ through calorie counting.”
Really? So NEVER eat things like bagels or M&M's?
Well, the editorial makes a strong point that high carb junk foods cause myriad health problems other than obesity. Personally I certainly would like to get to the point where I neither crave nor choose to consume such things.
Well see, here's the thing I don't get. If you can't control your own intake, why are you so prescriptive regarding other people, particularly those who are able to control and moderate theirs?
I get that you feel strongly regarding a food/body connection. And certainly, aiming to eat an overall nutritious diet is something we should all try to do.
What I think you miss in your reading is a little objectivity that skirts over key words like "excess" which change the context and meaning of portions of pieces like the one you posted.
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I am certainly not as much of an expert as many here... However, I believe that health is far more than what you see in the mirror. It encompasses energy levels and mood, blood markers, ability to perform - whether it's going out dancing with friends till 2am and not being sore the next day, running a half marathon, or being able to go on a week long hike with a 45lb backpack.
Sure, if you are carrying a lot of excess weight, you can simply increase your burn and drop calories. But you will get to the point at some point where your tolerance for excercise will have increased beyond what your existing diet can sustain LONG TERM. At this point you will need to pay attention to the garbage in garbage out mantra or else performance will suffer.
I am attending a masters swim meet this weekend. I am looking at competitive swimmers of all ages and all physiques. Guess what??? I have not yet seen any top placing in any age category by either gender by someone carrying excess weight. I would wager that the correlation between empty calories consumed, sugar and saturated fat intake and athletic performance is very high.
You might certainly make a lot of progress if starting at a sufficiently overweight body type. But beyond a certain point, more training alone will not lead to progress. Diet becomes a large part of the gains from a persons modest level of fitness. Ask any top performer in ANY athletic discipline.0 -
PikaKnight wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »But this was written by AUTHORS!
Not sure if you are being serious.
Dr. Oz and Vani Hari (the Food Babe) are authors and they've proven to be less than legit.
Oh, come on! Do you have NO sense of humor? Perhaps no sense of sarcasm? You obviously didn't read my first post.0 -
Pizza was my fuel, tasty and packed with calories and helped sustain my energy on the ice, and pasta, lots of pasta.I am certainly not as much of an expert as many here... However, I believe that health is far more than what you see in the mirror. It encompasses energy levels and mood, blood markers, ability to perform - whether it's going out dancing with friends till 2am and not being sore the next day, running a half marathon, or being able to go on a week long hike with a 45lb backpack.
Sure, if you are carrying a lot of excess weight, you can simply increase your burn and drop calories. But you will get to the point at some point where your tolerance for excercise will have increased beyond what your existing diet can sustain LONG TERM. At this point you will need to pay attention to the garbage in garbage out mantra or else performance will suffer.
I am attending a masters swim meet this weekend. I am looking at competitive swimmers of all ages and all physiques. Guess what??? I have not yet seen any top placing in any age category by either gender by someone carrying excess weight. I would wager that the correlation between empty calories consumed, sugar and saturated fat intake and athletic performance is very high.
You might certainly make a lot of progress if starting at a sufficiently overweight body type. But beyond a certain point, more training alone will not lead to progress. Diet becomes a large part of the gains from a persons modest level of fitness. Ask any top performer in ANY athletic discipline.
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Riiiiiiiggght.....0
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This original article adds nothing new. Technically, you can outrun a bad diet though you may need to run the whole day. Exercise and calorie intake are both important. It beats me why certain 'experts' push one versus the other. Humanity has evolved eating carbohydrates and proteins. I see no reason to demonize carbohydrates now. On the other hand, I don't endorse a 3000 calorie burger & fries diet either.0
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »I think people should read the original editorial, if they haven't already. The Forbes.com article on the link above missed a couple of the key points. The original is posted here:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2015/04/23/bjsports-2015-094911.full
The editorial is certainly another powerful endorsement for a low-carb and junk-free lifestyle. People who are convinced that they aren’t harming themselves by eating junk food when they have calories to ‘spare’ should take heed.
I particularly liked the part about members of the public being “drowned by an unhelpful message about maintaining a ‘healthy weight’ through calorie counting.”
Written by quacks like Noakes and Phinney? Lol
Associating the "food industry" with the tobacco industry, "This sabotage was achieved using a ‘corporate playbook’ of denial, doubt, confusing the public and even buying the loyalty of bent scientists, at the cost of millions of lives"
And no mention of having competing interests with having written low carb books and getting money from the Atkins foundation?
Also great to see them mention the debunked fat adaptation theory lol
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atypicalsmith wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »But this was written by AUTHORS!
Not sure if you are being serious.
Dr. Oz and Vani Hari (the Food Babe) are authors and they've proven to be less than legit.
Oh, come on! Do you have NO sense of humor? Perhaps no sense of sarcasm? You obviously didn't read my first post.
These authors are a little more legit than Dr Oz and the Food Babe...
Dr. Stephen D. Phinney is a Professor of Medicine Emeritus at UC-Davis. He is on the editorial board of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. He has twenty-five years of clinical experience as a director of multi-disciplinary weight management programs and has contributed to books and peer reviewed articles and is an expert in low carb nutrition and metabolism, fatty acids, inflammation, and the metabolic syndrome.
Timothy David Noakes is a South African professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town. He is a founding Member of the International Olympic Committee’s Olympic Science Academy and also President of the South African Sports Medicine Association. He is known for taking part in over 70 marathons and ultra-marathons.
Dr Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and the science director of Action on Sugar, a campaign group formed to reduce the amount of sugar added to food and soft drinks in an effort to tackle obesity and diabetes in the UK.
[*Edit to add: and this is his position on sugar: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/11/sugar-is-enemy-number-one-now]
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Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurateChrysalid2014 wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »But this was written by AUTHORS!
Not sure if you are being serious.
Dr. Oz and Vani Hari (the Food Babe) are authors and they've proven to be less than legit.
Oh, come on! Do you have NO sense of humor? Perhaps no sense of sarcasm? You obviously didn't read my first post.
These authors are a little more legit than Dr Oz and the Food Babe...
Dr. Stephen D. Phinney is a Professor of Medicine Emeritus at UC-Davis. He is on the editorial board of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. He has twenty-five years of clinical experience as a director of multi-disciplinary weight management programs and has contributed to books and peer reviewed articles and is an expert in low carb nutrition and metabolism, fatty acids, inflammation, and the metabolic syndrome.
Timothy David Noakes is a South African professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town. He is a founding Member of the International Olympic Committee’s Olympic Science Academy and also President of the South African Sports Medicine Association. He is known for taking part in over 70 marathons and ultra-marathons.
Dr Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and the science director of Action on Sugar, a campaign group formed to reduce the amount of sugar added to food and soft drinks in an effort to tackle obesity and diabetes in the UK.
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
Noakes is in hot water
http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/noakes-faces-probe-over-banting-tweet-1.1848659#.VTvWRpMYHnR0 -
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Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurateChrysalid2014 wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »But this was written by AUTHORS!
Not sure if you are being serious.
Dr. Oz and Vani Hari (the Food Babe) are authors and they've proven to be less than legit.
Oh, come on! Do you have NO sense of humor? Perhaps no sense of sarcasm? You obviously didn't read my first post.
These authors are a little more legit than Dr Oz and the Food Babe...
Dr. Stephen D. Phinney is a Professor of Medicine Emeritus at UC-Davis. He is on the editorial board of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. He has twenty-five years of clinical experience as a director of multi-disciplinary weight management programs and has contributed to books and peer reviewed articles and is an expert in low carb nutrition and metabolism, fatty acids, inflammation, and the metabolic syndrome.
Timothy David Noakes is a South African professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town. He is a founding Member of the International Olympic Committee’s Olympic Science Academy and also President of the South African Sports Medicine Association. He is known for taking part in over 70 marathons and ultra-marathons.
Dr Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and the science director of Action on Sugar, a campaign group formed to reduce the amount of sugar added to food and soft drinks in an effort to tackle obesity and diabetes in the UK.
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
Noakes is in hot water
http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/noakes-faces-probe-over-banting-tweet-1.1848659#.VTvWRpMYHnR
Lol, so much for being legit.
Hey! They are AUTHORS!0 -
Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurateChrysalid2014 wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »But this was written by AUTHORS!
Not sure if you are being serious.
Dr. Oz and Vani Hari (the Food Babe) are authors and they've proven to be less than legit.
Oh, come on! Do you have NO sense of humor? Perhaps no sense of sarcasm? You obviously didn't read my first post.
These authors are a little more legit than Dr Oz and the Food Babe...
Dr. Stephen D. Phinney is a Professor of Medicine Emeritus at UC-Davis. He is on the editorial board of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. He has twenty-five years of clinical experience as a director of multi-disciplinary weight management programs and has contributed to books and peer reviewed articles and is an expert in low carb nutrition and metabolism, fatty acids, inflammation, and the metabolic syndrome.
Timothy David Noakes is a South African professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town. He is a founding Member of the International Olympic Committee’s Olympic Science Academy and also President of the South African Sports Medicine Association. He is known for taking part in over 70 marathons and ultra-marathons.
Dr Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and the science director of Action on Sugar, a campaign group formed to reduce the amount of sugar added to food and soft drinks in an effort to tackle obesity and diabetes in the UK.
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
Noakes is in hot water
http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/noakes-faces-probe-over-banting-tweet-1.1848659#.VTvWRpMYHnR
Yet they didn't declare any competing interests (such as association with diet plans that generate revenue from those buying into a fear of carbs).0 -
Yep, these guys have certainly pissed somebody off. I wonder why...?
"Noakes said that he was "ecstatic" about the hearing.
"Absolutely, I know I'm going to win. It is going to show up some people's ignorance and it could not have come at a better time."
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more sugar fear mongering I see…
excess calories lead to weight gain ….
you can eat sugar, be in a deficit, and lose weight; conversely, you can eat little sugar, be in a surplus, and gain weight….
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Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurate
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
And that rant on someone's blog about Phinney is just nonsensical.
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurate
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
And that rant on someone's blog about Phinney is just nonsensical.
Any pics of your success?0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurate
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
And that rant on someone's blog about Phinney is just nonsensical.
So is your trying to tell others what they should or shouldn't eat.0 -
musicandarts wrote: »This original article adds nothing new. Technically, you can outrun a bad diet though you may need to run the whole day. Exercise and calorie intake are both important. It beats me why certain 'experts' push one versus the other. Humanity has evolved eating carbohydrates and proteins. I see no reason to demonize carbohydrates now. On the other hand, I don't endorse a 3000 calorie burger & fries diet either.
who is?0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »
Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurateChrysalid2014 wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »But this was written by AUTHORS!
Not sure if you are being serious.
Dr. Oz and Vani Hari (the Food Babe) are authors and they've proven to be less than legit.
Oh, come on! Do you have NO sense of humor? Perhaps no sense of sarcasm? You obviously didn't read my first post.
These authors are a little more legit than Dr Oz and the Food Babe...
Dr. Stephen D. Phinney is a Professor of Medicine Emeritus at UC-Davis. He is on the editorial board of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. He has twenty-five years of clinical experience as a director of multi-disciplinary weight management programs and has contributed to books and peer reviewed articles and is an expert in low carb nutrition and metabolism, fatty acids, inflammation, and the metabolic syndrome.
Timothy David Noakes is a South African professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town. He is a founding Member of the International Olympic Committee’s Olympic Science Academy and also President of the South African Sports Medicine Association. He is known for taking part in over 70 marathons and ultra-marathons.
Dr Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and the science director of Action on Sugar, a campaign group formed to reduce the amount of sugar added to food and soft drinks in an effort to tackle obesity and diabetes in the UK.
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
Noakes is in hot water
http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/noakes-faces-probe-over-banting-tweet-1.1848659#.VTvWRpMYHnR
Yet they didn't declare any competing interests (such as association with diet plans that generate revenue from those buying into a fear of carbs).
Especially considering they pointed out the moneyed interests behind making obscene statements like all calories count0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »
Phinney is an Atkins funded researcher and historically inaccurateChrysalid2014 wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »atypicalsmith wrote: »But this was written by AUTHORS!
Not sure if you are being serious.
Dr. Oz and Vani Hari (the Food Babe) are authors and they've proven to be less than legit.
Oh, come on! Do you have NO sense of humor? Perhaps no sense of sarcasm? You obviously didn't read my first post.
These authors are a little more legit than Dr Oz and the Food Babe...
Dr. Stephen D. Phinney is a Professor of Medicine Emeritus at UC-Davis. He is on the editorial board of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. He has twenty-five years of clinical experience as a director of multi-disciplinary weight management programs and has contributed to books and peer reviewed articles and is an expert in low carb nutrition and metabolism, fatty acids, inflammation, and the metabolic syndrome.
Timothy David Noakes is a South African professor of Exercise and Sports Science at the University of Cape Town. He is a founding Member of the International Olympic Committee’s Olympic Science Academy and also President of the South African Sports Medicine Association. He is known for taking part in over 70 marathons and ultra-marathons.
Dr Aseem Malhotra is a cardiologist and the science director of Action on Sugar, a campaign group formed to reduce the amount of sugar added to food and soft drinks in an effort to tackle obesity and diabetes in the UK.
https://atkins-hcp.com/bios#1
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2015/04/ancestral-health-dishonesty-phinney.html
Noakes is in hot water
http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/noakes-faces-probe-over-banting-tweet-1.1848659#.VTvWRpMYHnR
Yet they didn't declare any competing interests (such as association with diet plans that generate revenue from those buying into a fear of carbs).
Especially considering they pointed out the moneyed interests behind making obscene statements like all calories count
True believers of the fear mongering crowd don't care ... they just parrot.0 -
I'm just going to quote this blogger's rebuttal to that study.What’s super messed up is that these doctors are aware that movement reduces the risk of developing heart disease, dementia, some cancers, and type 2 diabetes (the exact reasons that we’re given for losing weight,) and instead of saying “Hey, this seems like more evidence to suggest that maybe we should be more focused on evidence-based health interventions and less focused on manipulating people’s body size,” they are trying to downplay the actual health benefits because the evidence-based health intervention that they’ve found doesn’t make people’s bodies smaller.
Also, I disagree with their fear-mongering food conclusions.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »I think people that are obese realise it's the excess food that contributes most, otherwise just another editorial that fosters the impression that exercise is moot and not needed, well, it is.
Right.
This is an article about the same piece that's been discussed in two other threads, and what hits me about it is that it mainly seems to be an effort to debunk things that no one thinks anyway, like "We’re continually “fed” the idea that all that’s behind the rise in obesity is lack of exercise, or sedentariness." That's not true--sure, sedentariness is part of it, in the popular understanding (and correctly), but that goes way beyond intentional exercise. And the main message is always that people eat too much. I mean even in "eat less, move more" the eating bit is first. And most people seem to think it's about eating "bad food." That doesn't mean they change what they eat, but not because they think it's all about exercise.0 -
musicandarts wrote: »This original article adds nothing new. Technically, you can outrun a bad diet though you may need to run the whole day. Exercise and calorie intake are both important. It beats me why certain 'experts' push one versus the other. Humanity has evolved eating carbohydrates and proteins. I see no reason to demonize carbohydrates now. On the other hand, I don't endorse a 3000 calorie burger & fries diet either.
who is?
McDonald's and Burger King.0 -
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13 grams of fat, 38 grams of carbs, 28 grams of protein. 3400 calorie a day diet.Chrysalid2014 wrote: »I think people should read the original editorial, if they haven't already. The Forbes.com article on the link above missed a couple of the key points. The original is posted here:
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2015/04/23/bjsports-2015-094911.full
The editorial is certainly another powerful endorsement for a low-carb and junk-free lifestyle. People who are convinced that they aren’t harming themselves by eating junk food when they have calories to ‘spare’ should take heed.
Junk food or not?
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I love ❤ the food nerds here!!neanderthin wrote: »
Actually fat on it's own is not very satiating and some carbs are the most satiating on the planet, like potatoes.mamapeach910 wrote: »Oh, there's this doozy in there:What we know to be true is much simpler: “Sugar calories promote fat storage and hunger,” the write. “Fat calories induce fullness or satiation.”
Um, protein calories also "promote" fat storage.
Because fat storage (insulin response) is a function of normal digestion. Just as fat burning is a function of normal metabolism. When you separate talking about digestion from the context of energy balance, it sure sounds inflammatory.
This one specific "fat storage" and insulin response thing with the sugar alarmists might be one of my biggest pet peeves.
Yep, a boiled potato measures highest on the satiety index while "Protein, fibre, and water contents of the test foods correlated positively with SI scores (r = 0.37, P < 0.05, n = 38; r = 0.46, P < 0.01; and r = 0.64, P < 0.001; respectively) whereas fat content was negatively associated (r = -0.43, P < 0.01).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104/0 -
I am certainly not as much of an expert as many here... However, I believe that health is far more than what you see in the mirror. It encompasses energy levels and mood, blood markers, ability to perform - whether it's going out dancing with friends till 2am and not being sore the next day, running a half marathon, or being able to go on a week long hike with a 45lb backpack.
I agree with you, and I imagine most commenting here also do.
IMO, this is why exercise matters a lot, in fact.
It's also related to why it works for me to eat a reasonable amount of carbs (40-50%), and why I don't believe, as perhaps the "authors" quoted in the article and of course good ole pretty kitty would have it, that carbs are evil and contrary to health.Sure, if you are carrying a lot of excess weight, you can simply increase your burn and drop calories. But you will get to the point at some point where your tolerance for excercise will have increased beyond what your existing diet can sustain LONG TERM. At this point you will need to pay attention to the garbage in garbage out mantra or else performance will suffer.
No one is saying that the best way to lose weight (at least for most) is just to increase exercise. But the claim that activity level doesn't matter--for individuals or society--is false.I am attending a masters swim meet this weekend. I am looking at competitive swimmers of all ages and all physiques. Guess what??? I have not yet seen any top placing in any age category by either gender by someone carrying excess weight.
Seems to me that this supports rather than opposes the idea that exercise and activity level matter a great deal.I would wager that the correlation between empty calories consumed, sugar and saturated fat intake and athletic performance is very high.
It's more varied than you might think. Matt Fitzgerald has a good discussion of this in Diet Cults.0 -
brianpperkins wrote: »
Yet they didn't declare any competing interests (such as association with diet plans that generate revenue from those buying into a fear of carbs). ....
Especially considering they pointed out the moneyed interests behind making obscene statements like all calories count ....
True believers of the fear mongering crowd don't care ... they just parrot.
And you think there are no moneyed interests or competing interests on the other side of the argument?
An investigation by The BMJ has uncovered evidence of the extraordinary extent to which key public health experts are involved with the sugar industry and related companies responsible for many of the products blamed for the obesity crisis through research grants, consultancy fees, and other forms of funding.
http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h231.full?ijkey=e41e6304d48cb7fb4f80441f365fc646724367b7&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »brianpperkins wrote: »
Yet they didn't declare any competing interests (such as association with diet plans that generate revenue from those buying into a fear of carbs). ....
Especially considering they pointed out the moneyed interests behind making obscene statements like all calories count ....
True believers of the fear mongering crowd don't care ... they just parrot.
And you think there are no moneyed interests or competing interests on the other side of the argument?
An investigation by The BMJ has uncovered evidence of the extraordinary extent to which key public health experts are involved with the sugar industry and related companies responsible for many of the products blamed for the obesity crisis through research grants, consultancy fees, and other forms of funding.
http://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h231.full?ijkey=e41e6304d48cb7fb4f80441f365fc646724367b7&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
*puts on tin foil hat and heads for basement*
looks like it is pretty kitty today ….0
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