Inflammation, A Hopefully Constructive Discussion
PeachyCarol
Posts: 8,029 Member
Yesterday in one of the many threads on sugar, someone mentioned eliminating it as improving her inflammation. I asked her what her inflammation was caused by, but she never returned to the thread.
Several people were kind enough to point me to very helpful studies linking a sort of chronic low-level state of inflammation to metabolic syndrome. Okay, cool, I can get that. What I'd like to understand and sort of flesh out in this discussion is how that feels to someone, symptomatically.
I don't have and never have had insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome, and the only noticeable symptom my Google-fu could manage to find was fatigue. What else have you experienced that would make you call it inflammation?
To give you some idea why I find the word "inflammation" rather odd to throw around... I have psoriatic arthritis and experience painful episodes where my joints actually get red and inflamed. I think of LITERAL inflammation when I hear the word.
I'd like to understand how other people experience systemic inflammation at a low level.
Several people were kind enough to point me to very helpful studies linking a sort of chronic low-level state of inflammation to metabolic syndrome. Okay, cool, I can get that. What I'd like to understand and sort of flesh out in this discussion is how that feels to someone, symptomatically.
I don't have and never have had insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome, and the only noticeable symptom my Google-fu could manage to find was fatigue. What else have you experienced that would make you call it inflammation?
To give you some idea why I find the word "inflammation" rather odd to throw around... I have psoriatic arthritis and experience painful episodes where my joints actually get red and inflamed. I think of LITERAL inflammation when I hear the word.
I'd like to understand how other people experience systemic inflammation at a low level.
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In for later.0
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When I think of inflammation, I think of running a fever, hence the term "inflamed".0
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Do people maybe meant bloated, when they use the word inflammation? Bloated being something that is equally difficult to quantify. Sometimes I feel a little puffy in the morning, but I would not call that inflammation.0
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I'm interested too, as a fellow AI sufferer.0
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I have had low grade systemic inflammation (of a different level than what you see) related to allergies and possibly a few other things. The results have been a gout attack, systemic bloating resulting in overnight weight gain of several kilos, exercise induced inflammation, and joint pain and stiffness.
Inflammation may occur without any redness and just a light level of bloatiness - it's really quite complex.
And sometimes it's a very positive response. Inflammatory response to exercise is believed to be a normal and major part of muscle synthesis, for example. For this reason, anti-inflammatory treatments (from AINS drugs, certain steroids, anti-leukotrienes) lead to reduced tissue development (both muscle and bone via osteocytes depression).
In IBS, for example, inflammation may very well be present,and yet localized and completely invisible.
Something I personally rarely feel but which may occur in others includes skin sensitivity, lymph node swelling, flu like symptoms.0 -
I have chronic inflammation and very mild arthritis in my hips. My overall sed rate is high, but it fluctuates as well. Basically, I can feel it when it gets high because it feel like everything tightens up (in a bad way), like its hard to move, my hips feel like I have little pulses of lightening when I try to walk, and, in general, I'm grumpy and miserable. I've heard a lot of fad diet ideas that supposedly curb "inflammation" but I go with my doctor tells me which is to keep taking mild OTC medication (because I don't want anything stronger, I'm 32, and don't want to take the arthritis medicine until I can't function), and lose the weight because that will take some stress off my joints, and do keep moving because with arthritis if you lose movement its hard to get it back. So, even when it hurts I do stretches and Yoga.
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Not sure for others, but I consider inflamation as swelling and hot to the touch or red. Although, I would say my left ankle joint is inflamed. It has swelling but feels so cold. I'm kind of a hypochondriac so I try to stay of Dr. Google. Pretty sure it's from the healing stress fractures I have in that leg. I don't think I've ever had systemic inflammation. Not sure what that is.0
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You might find this interesting:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/126909400 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »I have had low grade systemic inflammation (of a different level than what you see) related to allergies and possibly a few other things. The results have been a gout attack, systemic bloating resulting in overnight weight gain of several kilos, exercise induced inflammation, and joint pain and stiffness.
Inflammation may occur without any redness and just a light level of bloatiness - it's really quite complex.
And sometimes it's a very positive response. Inflammatory response to exercise is believed to be a normal and major part of muscle synthesis, for example. For this reason, anti-inflammatory treatments (from AINS drugs, certain steroids, anti-leukotrienes) lead to reduced tissue development (both muscle and bone via osteocytes depression).
In IBS, for example, inflammation may very well be present,and yet localized and completely invisible.
Something I personally rarely feel but which may occur in others includes skin sensitivity, lymph node swelling, flu like symptoms.
I'm glad you're in this discussion, because you're very knowledgeable on these things.
What would you say regarding inflammation and diet as a "cure"? That it would depend on the source of the inflammation whether it would be effective?
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As I understand it, the 'low level inflammation' refers to an over growth of gut bacteria as a result of food fermentation in the gut. The bacteria expel gas which can lead to abdominal pain and bloating. The reasoning behind limiting FODMAPs in the diet is to try to prevent the bacterial overgrowth.
ETA although this only refers to IBS-type inflammation, rather than being systemic in the broader sense.0 -
For me it is a combination of similar to feeling bloated, but it is an overall body feeling to the point of discomfort and where I felt like I didn't have the same mobility. Some of my joints hurt (hands, feet, ankles etc.) My mind was foggy and I was constantly getting headaches. I went on anti-inflammation diet (which eliminates a lot of different things, not just sugar, dairy, wheat) for 3 weeks and it helped a lot. I tested some of the foods again and have sort of figured out which ones are triggers for me. Doesn't mean I don't eat them sometimes but it is nice to be able to pin point the reason for me feeling like crap.0
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »You might find this interesting:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12690940
If I'm interpreting what I read correctly (I'm not yet caffeinated this morning), that backs up my experience. The only positive influence I've noticed on my disease progression that I could personally effect is exercise.
When my chronic migraines had me down and I couldn't make it to the gym? My joints felt it.
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My wife used to have IBS like symptoms for years. She had a blood test to check for foods that might be causing inflammation/reactions for her. It's not 100% accurate, but it did pinpoint several foods that were causing her issues. It isn't that there are "bad" foods, just that some foods are bad for her system. When she cut those things out of her diet her digestive system improved dramatically. The bonuses were that her seasonal allergies improved, her joints started feeling better, she stopped getting sinus infections whenever she got a head cold, and a few other things along those lines.
That's different than saying "sugar causes inflammation for nearly everyone" though. I'm definitely a believer that some people have issues with some foods (beyond clear cut food allergies).0 -
My sister says she has systemic inflammation from IBS. She is doing some food sensitivity thing right now where she can only eat like 10 foods and they gradually add stuff back to see how it affects her. She told me she has never felt so good in her life.
It could be placebo effect, or IMO its because this is forcing her to eat unprocessed foods. I never saw anyone eat so much processed food before. Every night it was donuts, pizza, tv dinners... the funny thing is that she is one of the skinniest people I've ever met. And we are twins! She said she was bloated, had joint pain, trouble sleeping, migraines, and potty issues.
I can say without any scientific backup that I do believe the artificial ingredients in some foods can have adverse effects on our bodies.0 -
I have fibromyalgia, M.E, Raynaud's phenomenon, arthritis, plantar fasciitis and Mortons neuroma.. I was told by my rheumatologist that a healthy and nutritious diet can play a part in reducing pain.
I know that my fatigue gets bad if I eat lots of sugary stuff but I guess that would make sense due to the sugar high and crash anyone gets. I do crave very sweet food when I am in pain. I'd have to keep a diary of my pain and compare it to my food log to see if there's any correlation. Hmm might just do that out of curiosity now.0 -
Inflammation is inflammation, just sometimes you can't see it for example bowl/intestines etc often caused by allergies/intolerances or more severe conditions like crohns disease. The results are the same, e.g. swollen tissue but the consequences are different, including mal absorption of nutrients, chronic pain and more.0
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I have been diagnosed as having inflammation which is the cause of my loss of sense of smell. The problem responds to steroid injections, but the reason for the inflammation remains a mystery so far.
I can not feel it. There's no pain or swelling that I can detect. When I get that steroid shot and the inflammation is reduced, I can't tell anything is different. It's not at all like the type of inflammation that you can see and feel, like when a small cut gets infected.
Even if dietary changes that are supposed to reduce inflammation actually worked, I don't know how I could ever tell.0 -
I have psoriasis and have been reading a book called "The Paleo Approach" by Sarah Ballantyne. The book is about putting autoimmune diseases in remission. Within 1 week from being on her diet my knee, hip and back pain was gone. This is because my inflammation went down from cutting out certain foods (so the book says). She also has a website called thepaleomom. I don't know if everything about it is true but I do know that I am feeling a ton better. I hope you find your answers.0
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enterdanger wrote: »Not sure for others, but I consider inflamation as swelling and hot to the touch or red. Although, I would say my left ankle joint is inflamed. It has swelling but feels so cold. I'm kind of a hypochondriac so I try to stay of Dr. Google. Pretty sure it's from the healing stress fractures I have in that leg. I don't think I've ever had systemic inflammation. Not sure what that is.
That swelling and redness is often acute localized inflammation associated with trauma, infection, etc. Think of it as a localized response to signals of "hey, there is something wrong here". Chronic and systemic inflammation is more when that signaling has gone haywire and is "on" all the time and everywhere. Redness and fever might not be present. For example, asthma is an allergic response. It leads directly to localized and often systemic allergic inflammatory response - usually without redness.
That tissue oedema (swelling) is an inflammatory response - it helps heal the tissue in your ankle.0 -
I'll state it in thread that I've tried dietary approaches to try to better fibromyalgia symptoms and, while doing that, my psoriatic arthritis actually developed while I was low carbing. So, they don't work for me. As I stated earlier, the only real results I've been able to effect have been through exercise.
I'm not here to argue with people, though, just to hear other's experience and symptoms.0 -
I have a chronic low level kind of inflammation related to my gluten allergy, which my endo thinks also triggered my Hashimoto's. For me, trying to get the inflammation under control is key in treating both of those conditions. I usually feel the inflammation as fatigue, sometimes nerve pain (gluten attacks the nerves in my hands, lucky me), bloating, extreme muscle tightness.
I also get hit with a heavy fatigue with pollen allergies in the spring. No runny noses or typical allergy symptoms, but I practically become narcoleptic. The problem I've had, and im not sure if this is typical with other people or not, but I have a hard time differentiating my symptoms of inflammation from that of 'normal', as I've kind of gotten used to it. It's only when I stop doing something (like eating gluten and sugar) that I realize how much better I feel.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »I'll state it in thread that I've tried dietary approaches to try to better fibromyalgia symptoms and, while doing that, my psoriatic arthritis actually developed while I was low carbing. So, they don't work for me. As I stated earlier, the only real results I've been able to effect have been through exercise.
I'm not here to argue with people, though, just to hear other's experience and symptoms.
Yes, everyone can be different. My personal experience (and I won't go into full details because I'm not up for controversy today at all), is that I have always been prone to acne (which actually started right after I got chicken pox when I was 18) and keratosis pilaris on back of the arms. After years of trying this and that, someone suggested I try low-inflammation foods. I figured, what the heck. That weekend I bought all sorts of healthy foods on the recommended list. I also added fish oil and Metamucil at night. Within two days my red areas where no longer red and within seven days my issues were gone - just GONE. I thought it was a fluke. Went back to normal eating for a week....within a few days I felt heavier, just internally. Skin got a bit itchy. Went back to recommended eating.....cleared up.
So, I personally do not care WHAT it was that did it, but it helps and to this day my skin is completely clear and I remain on a natural, whole food plan (for the most part), avoid my personal inflammatory foods and take my fish oil/Metamucil every day. If it works, I continue it. Plain and simple.
That's my own experience with 'inflammation' as it pertains to my nutrition.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »I'll state it in thread that I've tried dietary approaches to try to better fibromyalgia symptoms and, while doing that, my psoriatic arthritis actually developed while I was low carbing. So, they don't work for me. As I stated earlier, the only real results I've been able to effect have been through exercise.
I'm not here to argue with people, though, just to hear other's experience and symptoms.
How do you get on doing exercise with the pain you have? I've just bought an exercise bike which I can manage 10 minutes before my pain gets too bad, I can manage slow walks with my dog which I love. I want to start swimming again but whenever I do any kind of exercise it lands me in bed for days. Did you experience that and push through?
Really want to be more active, I try to avoid using my wheelchair unless I physically cannot weightbear0 -
Also meant to say low curbing puts me straight into flare0
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BigLifter10 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I'll state it in thread that I've tried dietary approaches to try to better fibromyalgia symptoms and, while doing that, my psoriatic arthritis actually developed while I was low carbing. So, they don't work for me. As I stated earlier, the only real results I've been able to effect have been through exercise.
I'm not here to argue with people, though, just to hear other's experience and symptoms.
Yes, everyone can be different. My personal experience (and I won't go into full details because I'm not up for controversy today at all), is that I have always been prone to acne (which actually started right after I got chicken pox when I was 18) and keratosis pilaris on back of the arms. After years of trying this and that, someone suggested I try low-inflammation foods. I figured, what the heck. That weekend I bought all sorts of healthy foods on the recommended list. I also added fish oil and Metamucil at night. Within two days my red areas where no longer red and within seven days my issues were gone - just GONE. I thought it was a fluke. Went back to normal eating for a week....within a few days I felt heavier, just internally. Skin got a bit itchy. Went back to recommended eating.....cleared up.
So, I personally do not care WHAT it was that did it, but it helps and to this day my skin is completely clear and I remain on a natural, whole food plan (for the most part), avoid my personal inflammatory foods and take my fish oil/Metamucil every day. If it works, I continue it. Plain and simple.
That's my own experience with 'inflammation' as it pertains to my nutrition.
You said "personal inflammatory foods"... did you do a sort of elimination style thing, or are you still eating from the list of recommended foods only?
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mamapeach910 wrote: »I'll state it in thread that I've tried dietary approaches to try to better fibromyalgia symptoms and, while doing that, my psoriatic arthritis actually developed while I was low carbing. So, they don't work for me. As I stated earlier, the only real results I've been able to effect have been through exercise.
I'm not here to argue with people, though, just to hear other's experience and symptoms.
How do you get on doing exercise with the pain you have? I've just bought an exercise bike which I can manage 10 minutes before my pain gets too bad, I can manage slow walks with my dog which I love. I want to start swimming again but whenever I do any kind of exercise it lands me in bed for days. Did you experience that and push through?
Really want to be more active, I try to avoid using my wheelchair unless I physically cannot weightbear
I started out walking with a cane! I walked for 10 minutes the first day. I kept walking. I walked through the pain. I just kept walking.
I just had the flu so my speed and incline are back down, but I was up to a 3.5 incline and 3.4 speed on the treadmill. I also do strength training 2-3 times a week. It's not very fast walking, but my legs are short, and I'm older. I don't walk for too long, or my SI joints and the joints in my feet act up. 40 minutes is my maximum. Sometimes, I work in faster intervals or intervals at a steeper incline.
I used to do the bike, but my knees can't handle it any more. My rheumy offered me injections the last time I was there, and I wasn't really keen on the idea.
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That's really fantastic for someone with health problems. I'm going to increase my walking again, just come out of flare up so gotta start from scratch again building it up0
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Also meant to say low curbing puts me straight into flare
If I cut my carbs too low, my fatigue levels shoot through the roof. If I eat too many, I feel sluggish as well. I tend to eat a moderate amount.
The fatigue from PsA is probably more difficult for me to manage than the pain.
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