Strength vs hypertrophy in a deficit?

kikichewie

I'm lifting in a deficit. Still new, so heavy to me isn't super heavy yet. I'm mostly in a mid to high rep range per the Strong .curves program. It's supposed to be for building muscle, not just strength like 5x5.

So the question is, does a hypertrophy program work in a deficit if you're not supposed to be able to build actual muscle? Or am I building strength, but not as effectively as if I lowered my rep ranges and upped my weights faster? I'll keep upping them, but obviously it's slower if I'm doing 8-12 x3.

abadvat

Strength is lower reps but heavier weights - if you manage to hit 8/12 you are not focusing on strength and if you are on deficit you are not focusing on size....

Let's start with an end in mind.... what do you want to achieve?

kikichewie

abadvat wrote: »

Strength is lower reps but heavier weights - if you manage to hit 8/12 you are not focusing on strength and if you are on deficit you are not focusing on size....

Let's start with an end in mind.... what do you want to achieve?

More muscle, less fat. Fat loss is my first priority, followed by increased muscle. I'm around 30% body fat now and want to get to 20.

If I can't gain muscle in a deficit then it seems like lower reps and heavier weights would be ideal in a deficit, then bulk with higher reps when I reach my body fat goal.... But I need a sanity check on that bc it would mean tweaking Strong Curves, which has a physique focus (that ultimately I want). Make sense?

abadvat

Makes sense!
If bf% is the main concern stick to your deficit and make sure you keep active.
Lower your reps and try to maximize your strength levels till you are comfortable with your bf% to eventually be able to start increasing your calories and eventually reps.

Don't expect massive jumps in strength as being on a deficit affects your output from both strength and size point of view (not saying you will not gain but it will be a slow process!).

You will however have built a base level to eventually maximize your next step.... size!

Makes sense?

kikichewie

Yes! What I think I'll do is use some of the SC body weight exercises (clamshells and abductions, for instance) as part of my warmup to activate my glutes, then push heavy for the lifts w barbells (squats, hip thrusts, DLs) and upper body push/pull exercises...

Thank you for being a great sounding board!

abadvat

Push pull in strength is not necessarily needed... and more effective when you will start focusing on growth.
When targeting strength I personally hit heavy compounds and I don't stop at 4/5 reps - I make sure the weight is heavy enough for me to fail at 4/5...
If into body weight exercise explosive sets are a great way to keep your heart rate up (good for your bf% goal) and stimulate strength at the same time (staple base line when doing street workouts / calisthenics)!

BigLifter10

kikichewie wrote: »

Yes! What I think I'll do is use some of the SC body weight exercises (clamshells and abductions, for instance) as part of my warmup to activate my glutes, then push heavy for the lifts w barbells (squats, hip thrusts, DLs) and upper body push/pull exercises...

Thank you for being a great sounding board!

Just my two cents worth - I personally find that using 'negatives' when I'm lifting in a deficit is particularly effective for my body. I hold the motion, then count down 3, 2, 1, before ending the move and doing it again. It also helps to maintain physique when not actively building. You can't do that for EVERY exercise (awkward for deads, for instance), but where you can use them, the technique is handy.

abadvat

BigLifter10 wrote: »

kikichewie wrote: »

Yes! What I think I'll do is use some of the SC body weight exercises (clamshells and abductions, for instance) as part of my warmup to activate my glutes, then push heavy for the lifts w barbells (squats, hip thrusts, DLs) and upper body push/pull exercises...

Thank you for being a great sounding board!

Just my two cents worth - I personally find that using 'negatives' when I'm lifting in a deficit is particularly effective for my body. I hold the motion, then count down 3, 2, 1, before ending the move and doing it again. It also helps to maintain physique when not actively building.

Indeed - can't go wrong with heavy as f*** negatives or also statics (for a longer amount of time than negatives in my case)!

kikichewie

abadvat wrote: »

Push pull in strength is not necessarily needed... and more effective when you will start focusing on growth.
When targeting strength I personally hit heavy compounds and I don't stop at 4/5 reps - I make sure the weight is heavy enough for me to fail at 4/5...
If into body weight exercise explosive sets are a great way to keep your heart rate up (good for your bf% goal) and stimulate strength at the same time (staple base line when doing street workouts / calisthenics)!

Oh I just meant bench press, shoulder press, rows and lat pulldowns. Like I did an underhand close grip lat pulldown w 3 reps per set the other day, which was to failure.

jemhh

kikichewie wrote: »

I'm lifting in a deficit. Still new, so heavy to me isn't super heavy yet. I'm mostly in a mid to high rep range per the Strong .curves program. It's supposed to be for building muscle, not just strength like 5x5.

So the question is, does a hypertrophy program work in a deficit if you're not supposed to be able to build actual muscle? Or am I building strength, but not as effectively as if I lowered my rep ranges and upped my weights faster? I'll keep upping them, but obviously it's slower if I'm doing 8-12 x3.

I found SC to be more effective at maintenence+. I'm eating in a deficit now so I kept 2 hip thrust days @5 reps and RDLs at 5-8.

I also do a day with bb glute bridges at lower weight but higher reps (~15x105 or so) because it works well for me.

dtrmcblo

Gaining strength is much more than the calories you take. Neural adaptation may give you stength which doesn't need excess calories per se. Your main focus since you are in a deficit is to give your body a reason not to lose muscle but fat instead. What I'm trying to say is, lift weights heavy enough that will make your body maintain or even grow(rare instance but possible if protein intake is in check) your muscles. The calorie deficit and some exercise will take care of the fat loss. Peace.

richln

Some people that run a hypertrophy program while bulking stay on the same hypertrophy program while in a deficit. With that approach, the goal is to try to maintain strength and volume as much as possible until your deficit is over. I never liked that approach because it is hard for me to keep motivated when I am not making any progress, and I just don't have the energy for high volume hypertrophy workouts while at deficit. I spend a lot of time hypertrophy-focused while bulking, but I go strength-focused while in deficit and stick to the compounds with lower reps. Short and intense works better for me, and I can usually make some strength gains while losing weight.

AllanMisner

kikichewie wrote: »

I'm lifting in a deficit. Still new, so heavy to me isn't super heavy yet. I'm mostly in a mid to high rep range per the Strong .curves program. It's supposed to be for building muscle, not just strength like 5x5.

So the question is, does a hypertrophy program work in a deficit if you're not supposed to be able to build actual muscle? Or am I building strength, but not as effectively as if I lowered my rep ranges and upped my weights faster? I'll keep upping them, but obviously it's slower if I'm doing 8-12 x3.

I catch a lot of flack on this site when I say it is possible to add muscle while on a deficit. It is very, very hard (easier for guys, but it can be done). It involves having a smaller deficit that most people use to cut fat (250 calories vs 500 calories), and it involves timing your nutrition so you have what you need to build muscle when you need it and you’re forcing your body to run on fat stores (especially at night when you’re asleep). It keeps you dipping into ketosis as you cycle. The point is, it is hard, and not a pleasant life. So, most people can’t/won’t do it and when they feel something is too hard for them, it must be impossible. It isn’t.

mantium999

Just for the sake of inquiry, as it's something I have been pondering. Let's say a person is generally in a deficit, but not completely consistent, would an 8-12 rep range be more beneficial than a 5 rep range, given that it will still provide progressive strength improvements during deficit times, while also contributing to hypertrophy during periods of less than ideal dietary consistency? I guess what I am asking, is if one were in a rough (not perfectly consistent) recomp phase, which rep range would be more effective over a longer period of time?

CatHunterFit

I've been doing weights, and 5x5 stronglifts while eating in a deficit and I've had some great newbie gains! I've definitely added muscle to my arms - they are way more defined. But I think I'm going to stall from now on. I'm still cutting - I'm still wanting to shift stubborn fat too. But hope to try a slow bulk after the summer.

I'm following IIFYM which is working well for me alongside weight training.

AllanMisner

mantium999 wrote: »

Just for the sake of inquiry, as it's something I have been pondering. Let's say a person is generally in a deficit, but not completely consistent, would an 8-12 rep range be more beneficial than a 5 rep range, given that it will still provide progressive strength improvements during deficit times, while also contributing to hypertrophy during periods of less than ideal dietary consistency? I guess what I am asking, is if one were in a rough (not perfectly consistent) recomp phase, which rep range would be more effective over a longer period of time?

It has been commonly believed that the 1 - 5 range was best for strength and 5 - 12 was best for hypertrophy. However, a recent study showed very little hypertrophy difference in the low and moderate ranges, yet showed a significant difference in strength gain with lower rep. So, unless someone is just learning the movement (where more reps gives them more “practice” with the lift), I’d recommend low rep (3 - 6), heavy compound lifts.