Age Discrimination?
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farfromthetree wrote: »Unfortunately, I think you are in the minority of women your age. I am 50, none of my friends lift. Either because they are afraid they are too old, unmotivated, just don't care, or afraid of getting hurt. It boggles my mind. You have much less of a chance of being hurt weight training than you do if you sit on the couch and let your muscles and bones turn to mush. Great job on your deadlift. That is amazing!!
I wonder sometimes if women my age are afraid because our doctors, friends and even partners don't encourage us to try. I've fallen on my butt, my face, and have a permanent small dent in my forehead from walking into a bar at the squat rack.............none of them hurt that much..........LOL
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My mother is going on 63. She's very active. She has stopped going to see her doctor. Every ailment she went to see him for had been dismissed as an age problem. Four-day-long migraine? Oh, you're getting old. Bronchitis (non smoker)? Oh, you're just getting old. Sore knee? Yep, happens when you age!
Now, for me, he did the same thing - before I lost weight. Everything was because I needed to exercise and/or lose weight. Yes, I'm sure it helped with whatever I was going to see him for, but not EVERYTHING.
Sometimes doctors, like internet articles, have to be taken with a grain of salt. You aren't hurting yourself? Give'er!2 -
chivalryder wrote: »I think it's their target audience.
You are not their target audience. They're trying to communicate to seniors who are not active.
Would you suggest someone who is 65+ to hit up a gym and start lifting heavy weights? Hell no.
Just like I wouldn't suggest someone who is 20 who has been sedentary their entire life to hit up a gym and start lifting the heaviest weight they can.
Everyone needs to start (relatively) small and build up their fitness to the point where there is a lower risk of injury.
The difference between someone who is 65+ and 20, however, is that the 20 year old probably doesn't have to worry about osteoporosis, arthritis, loss of dexterity, or other things that commonly come with aging.
So, I agree with the article because someone who has been active and into fitness all their life is not who they are communicating to. They're communicating to those people who have been sitting on their *kitten* all day and are realizing, "Hey, if I don't start exercising, I'm going to die tomorrow." For those people little 5lb weights and a 30 minute walk everyday will do them wonders and might give them a few more years of their life with a very low risk of them injuring themselves.
ETA: Yes, you are an outlier because 90% of the American population are not active and fit like you. You are not the general population, therefore you are an outlier and not the target audience of the article.
I quickly looked and couldn't find the article again..................but will keep trying. It wasn't a beginning point for people who've never exercised before or in a long time. It was a progression of decreasing exercise based on aging. For those over 70 the suggestions were even less intense.
I found it insulting personally.
If what you say is true, then yeah. They can go frack themselves.0 -
Ageism is rampant in America. And it's often subtle - you just get this feeling of being slapped in the face by someone who thinks they're being well-meaning when their overriding attitude is based on outdated attitudes. It's more that irritating and requires constant vigilance to combat it. It's also very subtle. Don't think people are going to change their attitudes if you point it out either.
I just found on good response to the statement, "you look very good for your age." It's: "So do you." Don't thank someone for this comment. It isn't flattering.
I responded to the last ageist comment I received yesterday of, "You're looking very hip these days" with the comment of, "I always have been." On the surface that may not sound like an ageist comment, but in context with the delivery, it was.
You may be interested in these resources: http://theradicalagemovement.com and http://seniorplanet.org/planet-talk-live-ashton-applewhite/
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farfromthetree wrote: »Unfortunately, I think you are in the minority of women your age. I am 50, none of my friends lift. Either because they are afraid they are too old, unmotivated, just don't care, or afraid of getting hurt. It boggles my mind. You have much less of a chance of being hurt weight training than you do if you sit on the couch and let your muscles and bones turn to mush. Great job on your deadlift. That is amazing!!
I wonder sometimes if women my age are afraid because our doctors, friends and even partners don't encourage us to try. I've fallen on my butt, my face, and have a permanent small dent in my forehead from walking into a bar at the squat rack.............none of them hurt that much..........LOL
exactly!! The thing is, my friends have seen me lose 45 pounds. They have seen my muscles pop out when I used to hide my arms all summer long. They know I do CrossFit 4-5 times/week, yet instead of asking for help or trying the gym,(which is awesome for beginners) they prefer to do nothing. I have found so much strength and motivation from posts such as yours. I love hearing others stories of how they turned it around. It keeps me going!
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I think it is great that you are determined to stay healthy, OP. I wish other people shared your attitude toward life. Bodybuilding.com can be a troll haven, so tread lightly there. It is geared mostly to men, age 18-mid 30's. They are not going to be well informed on what the challenges are to lift at an older age (myself included), so therefore they are going to give you no response at all, or negative ones.
I am friends with a few people who are in their 50's and lift wayyy more than I do. It's totally doable, and I think that as long as you are smart about it, it will help you stay healthy and independent for a long time. I think the key is just slow, progressive overload with the weights, and knowing your limits. Overuse injuries occur at any age, as do bad form and random medical issues/illness (just got over a 2 week bout with pneumonia myself). For some reason a lot people over 50 just kind of stop using their bodies and decide to become frail. They just stop going out, stop doing the things they used to like. My grandpa could barely sit up at 75, but then I see other people at 85 walking around unaided, living by themselves still. My grandpa sat in a chair all day. Those other people did not.
So I say keep lifting, OP. Be smart, learn lots about proper form, work on your flexibility, get your macros dialed in, get lots of sleep, and pay attention to your body if it needs to rest or heal. You will deadlifting that 200lbs in no time!0 -
47Jacqueline wrote: »Ageism is rampant in America. And it's often subtle - you just get this feeling of being slapped in the face by someone who thinks they're being well-meaning when their overriding attitude is based on outdated attitudes. It's more that irritating and requires constant vigilance to combat it. It's also very subtle. Don't think people are going to change their attitudes if you point it out either.
I just found on good response to the statement, "you look very good for your age." It's: "So do you." Don't thank someone for this comment. It isn't flattering.
I responded to the last ageist comment I received yesterday of, "You're looking very hip these days" with the comment of, "I always have been." On the surface that may not sound like an ageist comment, but in context with the delivery, it was.
You may be interested in these resources: http://theradicalagemovement.com and http://seniorplanet.org/planet-talk-live-ashton-applewhite/
Thanks for the links.............I get comments like that all the time too. I'll incorporate some of your clever responses.........
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Actually bones get weaker when there's less stress on them. So exercising increases bone density.LeanButNotMean44 wrote: »I think that MOST 65 year olds probably do need to be more conscious about their exercise, etc. because bones get weaker as we age, etc. I would suggest that you are DEFINITELY an outlier when it comes to this kind of stuff and that you may have a higher threshold for pain/discomfort due to your past obstacles.
BTW - I am going to be 47 years old in a few days, and I COMPLETELY agree with your outlook! I hope you keep on doing what you're doing and get that 200lb DL very soon!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I know that exercise increases bone density. I guess I meant that statement to be more applicable to folks who have not really done much in the way of exercise before and maybe need to ease into it rather than going full force into a program and getting injured.
I'd still maintain that OP is an outlier, and that the stuff on BB.com and other places (unfortunately) does not target people in her generation. Sounds like maybe an opportunity for her to do something about it....
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I think it is great that you are determined to stay healthy, OP. I wish other people shared your attitude toward life. Bodybuilding.com can be a troll haven, so tread lightly there. It is geared mostly to men, age 18-mid 30's. They are not going to be well informed on what the challenges are to lift at an older age (myself included), so therefore they are going to give you no response at all, or negative ones.
I am friends with a few people who are in their 50's and lift wayyy more than I do. It's totally doable, and I think that as long as you are smart about it, it will help you stay healthy and independent for a long time. I think the key is just slow, progressive overload with the weights, and knowing your limits. Overuse injuries occur at any age, as do bad form and random medical issues/illness (just got over a 2 week bout with pneumonia myself). For some reason a lot people over 50 just kind of stop using their bodies and decide to become frail. They just stop going out, stop doing the things they used to like. My grandpa could barely sit up at 75, but then I see other people at 85 walking around unaided, living by themselves still. My grandpa sat in a chair all day. Those other people did not.
So I say keep lifting, OP. Be smart, learn lots about proper form, work on your flexibility, get your macros dialed in, get lots of sleep, and pay attention to your body if it needs to rest or heal. You will deadlifting that 200lbs in no time!
^^^THIS is an awesome post, Brolympus. My parents are 77 & 75 years old and have remained active. They have had a few health issues (my Mom had both knees replaced, my Dad has arthritis in his back and thyroid issues) but thankfully aren't content to sit around and watch TV all day. I think it is very important for one to remain/be mobile as long as possible.1 -
I am 62 and although I am not yet nearly as strong as OP I will get there. I started the Jason Blaha Ice Cream Fitness program about two months ago and I can already see and feel the difference. I am up to 5x5 95lb squats and 5 95lb deadlifts. I overhead press 70lb. I also do 5x5 chin-up and 5x5 dips with good form. It's motivation not age that makes the difference.3
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Thanks for all the great responses everyone...........I've really enjoyed them and found them enlightening and useful.
I would like to make one further comment or clarification, if you will. Perhaps I am a bit of an outlier, I don't really know and hadn't thought that much about it to be honest, but I think the real point is that maybe I shouldn't be. I'd like to think if more seniors were encouraged to strive a little harder for fitness rather than just accept the aging process and what they think that means for them, then there would be a hell of a lot more of us outliers.
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Thanks for all the great responses everyone...........I've really enjoyed them and found them enlightening and useful.
I would like to make one further comment or clarification, if you will. Perhaps I am a bit of an outlier, I don't really know and hadn't thought that much about it to be honest, but I think the real point is that maybe I shouldn't be. I'd like to think if more seniors were encouraged to strive a little harder for fitness rather than just accept the aging process and what they think that means for them, then there would be a hell of a lot more of us outliers.
I agree with you, OP. I plan to be just like you! Keep setting a great example.
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Working in a Wellness Center, the majority of people in the mornings to mid afternoons are seniors. Many are free weight lifters because they've been taught correctly how to do it and the benefits. Of course we have many more courses such as water classes, yoga, balance classes and chair exercise for them too, but the direction from all of them is the same........................activity.
BB.com is a "bro" community of muscleheads looking directly at mass building primarily. Because age does matter when it comes to muscle hypertrophy, they don't focus on ages past 50 for hypertrophy or power lifts. But there are also many others that dissuade seniors not to lift heavy because they are still of the mindset that they are frail.
You've got a good trainer. Stick with them.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My gym is part of a major health center and is used as a facility for rehab for those that don't need the specialized rehab center down the street. They have pretty much everyone lifting free weights, young and old. And if they can't lift - like the 100+ yr old guy that is wheelchair-bound - they have them using resistance bands.
FWIW OP, while you are definitely an outlier as far as the willingness to put in the work, you're not an outlier as far as having the physical capability of getting to that level if the work is done. Which I believe was your point.
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Thanks for all the great responses everyone...........I've really enjoyed them and found them enlightening and useful.
I would like to make one further comment or clarification, if you will. Perhaps I am a bit of an outlier, I don't really know and hadn't thought that much about it to be honest, but I think the real point is that maybe I shouldn't be. I'd like to think if more seniors were encouraged to strive a little harder for fitness rather than just accept the aging process and what they think that means for them, then there would be a hell of a lot more of us outliers.
Exactly! It would really help if "senior" fitness activities were normalized in the mainstream media rather than treated as anomalous.
In theory, when you're retired you have MORE time to engage in fitness... just think of the huge market!0 -
Thanks everyone!0
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LoneWolfRunner wrote: »I rarely listen to my doctors. I'm 57 and started running 4 years ago on hips that have been replaced twice. I was told I shouldn't do any running and stick with easy walking. 5,300 miles later with no wear on the hips, my doctor has finally acknowledged that my running and weight training might actually be helping me "despite my age".
Bravo. It's a good thing you have an independent mind, but sad there are doctors out there short-changing people of any age, young or old, from enjoying the benefits and pleasure of running and other vigorous exercise.
Now if only your doctor could drop his disclaimer "despite my age" and become more current on sports-med knowledge on the positive benefits of active exercise on joints and health for all ages.0 -
Thanks both of you.
One of the points I'm trying to make, whether I'm an outlier or not, is that age shouldn't be an excuse to not improve or maintain our future health and fitness. And I don't think doctors or bodybuilding websites should put limits on people based on age......................and neither should we.
I fully concur- age should NEVER be an excuse for anything other than being young- and you have no say over that.
But- I wouldn't casually dismiss how the body ages and handles recovery and being aware of the way you need to treat your body as you age. I'm already/only 31... and I even in the past 5 years I can greatly tell how much recovery time I need- I can't get up as easily in the morning running on less sleep.
I can TELL my body isn't the same- I'm more kind to my body- stretching/yoga/somatic exercise is vital to my life as a dancer and even as a lifter. I think you should be aware and in tune with what your body needs... but absolutely not be making excuses for yourself just because of a number.1 -
Why do we value an antique chair more than an older adult?
Ageism refers to discriminatory or prejudiced behavior and attitudes towards people based solely on age.
Ageism causes the systematic mistreatment and marginalization of people based on age alone, just as racism and sexism does so based on categories of skin color and gender.
For me, aging as a woman in America is less about injustices done to me than it is about a subtle undermining of my place within this society and a not-so-subtle disrespect that pops up more with each passing year. My age sets me up for a kind of disdain only partially experienced by younger women with the same views. The wisdom that comes with age has little value to anyone but those possessing it, because wisdom is another word for old, and old is what no one wants to be.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I can tell you that to be an aging woman in America is to be constantly bombarded by imagery and media that distance your younger feminist sisters from you, because the idea of no longer resembling those youthful images of femininity and becoming invisible terrifies them. It is just bizarre realizing that my appearance is something many young women dread.
Ageism is a life-altering injustice that affects women. If we continue to be erased in the second half of our lives, we will remain stuck in a perpetual cycle with greater social relevance in the first half of our lives, and the patriarchal axiom that women are only valuable when they are young, hot and fertile will continue unchallenged.
We should really make a conscious effort to stop putting down older women to set oneself apart from them and from an inevitable form of bigotry that cannot presently be escaped. Whatever you think of Madonna at 56, or Jamie Lee Curtis at 56, let’s acknowledge that most of us will one day be 56, if we aren’t already, and we’ll want to define for ourselves what that means.2 -
You know, I am 38 and watching my mom age is my primary motivation for getting healthy. She is 70 and her health is deteriorating rapidly. My dad passed away at 62 from Congestive Heart Failure after battling it for a decade. My dr said that most of his patients die of denial and I'm determined not to be another denial statistic.
I absolutely love to see people of all ages taking charge of their lives and their health. I will not follow in my parents footsteps health-wise. I plan to be as healthy and active as you are @luluinca at your age. I think that you are in the minority of people your age who really take charge of their fitness. I have begged, pleaded and would pay cold hard cash to get my mom into a health program. There is nothing I can say or do to get her moving so... I do what I can to prevent following the same path.0 -
47Jacqueline wrote: »Why do we value an antique chair more than an older adult?
Ageism refers to discriminatory or prejudiced behavior and attitudes towards people based solely on age.
Ageism causes the systematic mistreatment and marginalization of people based on age alone, just as racism and sexism does so based on categories of skin color and gender.
For me, aging as a woman in America is less about injustices done to me than it is about a subtle undermining of my place within this society and a not-so-subtle disrespect that pops up more with each passing year. My age sets me up for a kind of disdain only partially experienced by younger women with the same views. The wisdom that comes with age has little value to anyone but those possessing it, because wisdom is another word for old, and old is what no one wants to be.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I can tell you that to be an aging woman in America is to be constantly bombarded by imagery and media that distance your younger feminist sisters from you, because the idea of no longer resembling those youthful images of femininity and becoming invisible terrifies them. It is just bizarre realizing that my appearance is something many young women dread.
Ageism is a life-altering injustice that affects women. If we continue to be erased in the second half of our lives, we will remain stuck in a perpetual cycle with greater social relevance in the first half of our lives, and the patriarchal axiom that women are only valuable when they are young, hot and fertile will continue unchallenged.
We should really make a conscious effort to stop putting down older women to set oneself apart from them and from an inevitable form of bigotry that cannot presently be escaped. Whatever you think of Madonna at 56, or Jamie Lee Curtis at 56, let’s acknowledge that most of us will one day be 56, if we aren’t already, and we’ll want to define for ourselves what that means.
Thank you for you very observant and relevant thoughts.0 -
Just keep doing what you love to do! Keep it rocking!!0
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47Jacqueline wrote: »Why do we value an antique chair more than an older adult?
Ageism refers to discriminatory or prejudiced behavior and attitudes towards people based solely on age.
Ageism causes the systematic mistreatment and marginalization of people based on age alone, just as racism and sexism does so based on categories of skin color and gender.
For me, aging as a woman in America is less about injustices done to me than it is about a subtle undermining of my place within this society and a not-so-subtle disrespect that pops up more with each passing year. My age sets me up for a kind of disdain only partially experienced by younger women with the same views. The wisdom that comes with age has little value to anyone but those possessing it, because wisdom is another word for old, and old is what no one wants to be.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I can tell you that to be an aging woman in America is to be constantly bombarded by imagery and media that distance your younger feminist sisters from you, because the idea of no longer resembling those youthful images of femininity and becoming invisible terrifies them. It is just bizarre realizing that my appearance is something many young women dread.
Ageism is a life-altering injustice that affects women. If we continue to be erased in the second half of our lives, we will remain stuck in a perpetual cycle with greater social relevance in the first half of our lives, and the patriarchal axiom that women are only valuable when they are young, hot and fertile will continue unchallenged.
We should really make a conscious effort to stop putting down older women to set oneself apart from them and from an inevitable form of bigotry that cannot presently be escaped. Whatever you think of Madonna at 56, or Jamie Lee Curtis at 56, let’s acknowledge that most of us will one day be 56, if we aren’t already, and we’ll want to define for ourselves what that means.
While this is very valid, I have to add that, in general, our society has become so obsessed with me, me, me and basically 'up yours' attitude from so many. Respect. What's that? You see the lack of it everywhere and the opportunities to point it out are endless. It's terrible, but it also makes those you connect with that much more valuable.0 -
Copied from my post reply to luluinca's original post in another thread:
Great thread you guys... I took a wonderful workshop weekend many years ago as a Fitness Trainer for Third Age (what they call 'senior' fitness here in BC) at University of British Columbia. It was all on sport performance for seniors and realizing that a 60-90 age difference is 30 freakin' years - would we ever lump a 20 yr old in with a 50 yr old and treat their exercise prescription the same?? And assume that they have the same issues? NO!! Everyone is an individual and all exercise prescriptions need to be based on the individual's health at that particular time... NOT their age. I get tired of the stupid 'you are xx age so you must have these health problems and need to take it easy.' The same as people assuming that if you are young you must not have any chronic illness and be able to do anything someone else your age can do. UGH!
Training helps EVERYONE, even those stuck in nursing homes. Everyone can improve (at their own rate).
OK, my rant over, lol.
As far as Osteoporosis goes, my 51 yr old bones tested as dense as 25yr old average. Most problems attributed to aging are actually from dis-use.1 -
This is exactly why my focus area for personal training is the 40+ crowd. Very few personal trainers understand how much mature and senior trainees are capable of and how important it is for them to train just as hard as anyone else. You have to be smart about it, but there is nothing you can’t do if you build up to it.
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AllanMisner wrote: »This is exactly why my focus area for personal training is the 40+ crowd. Very few personal trainers understand how much mature and senior trainees are capable of and how important it is for them to train just as hard as anyone else. You have to be smart about it, but there is nothing you can’t do if you build up to it.
Thank you for saying that............my trainer agrees with you! And.............he expects a lot from me. 0 -
I hope I look as good as you do when I'm 65.
Don't listen to the naysayers.0 -
Woo Hoo!!! This is great!! I agree with you!0
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I, too, get frustrated by this stuff! I grew up with a belief that age was just a number and yet many of the people who helped me to form that belief as a child are now succumbing to the "I'm just old." mentality! I have seen so many wonderful articles about men and women starting running, martial arts, acrobatics, and the like at age 65, 75 and 85+. Not to mention so many studies about "old age" doesn't have to be what it has always been and that most (if not ALL) so called "age related" illnesses could be deleted with movement, weight training and nutrition.
Another thing that frustrates me no end is that I am 36 years of age and even people I graduated high school with will post things like "I'm getting so old.", "I'm not as young as I was." and similar! WHAT?! No thank you. My role models run along the lines of Tao Porchon-Lynch, the world's oldest yoga teacher...she is 96 and can do things I can't (but am sure as heck going to!)
I just want to climb on a soap box every time I hear ANYONE make agist comments and list off all the reasons what they say is horse poop! Dr. Deepok Chopra and Dr. Christiane Northrup have some really wonderful books about aging. It is a goal of mine to somehow help others to release these agist views through fitness classes, seasonal women's retreats...maybe even as an inspirational speaker or something like that...0
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