Why I am cutting back on sugar
Replies
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FitnessTim wrote: »I'm surprised at how strongly people will defend sugar. I guess it is my fault for using the phrasing "sugar is bad". That's totally subjective and not true.
Based on historical data, excess sugar does appear to be a contributing factor to health issues.
Does that work for everyone? That may be an acceptable way to put it but it is unlikely to get the average person motivated to restrict their sugar intake.
In my personal experience, not evidence but worth discussing, sugar is hard to control. About a year ago, I was in peak condition, eating right and exercising regularly. One day I decided to try Nutella. I had never had it before and I was curious about how it tasted. I spread some on a rice cake and took a taste. To me, it was the best thing I had ever tasted. Short time later my healthy lifestyle was derailed.
I can't say that one taste of processed sugar was what sent me on a tailspin but it definitely made keeping my diet in check more difficult.
From WebMd:
Your Brain on SugarINEXPLICABLE WEIGHT GAIN You stay away from burgers and drink diet soda. But sugar—both real and artificial—is the secret saboteur. When the pancreas senses sugar, the body releases insulin, which causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen for energy. Eat too much at once, though, and insulin levels spike, then drop. The aftermath? You feel tired, then crave more sustenance to perk up.
I'm not suggesting that sugar has the same effect on everyone. I'm not saying that people on a high sugar diet can't keep their weight under control. What I am saying is that based on all the evidence and studies, it is worth it for people to question whether or not sugar has a negative impact on their health and fitness goals.
You have obviously never seen a sugar post on here. I've posted similar anti-sugar things and gotten the same response. People want to think they can eat whatever they want just smaller amounts and that fixes everything. Most of those people end up regaining the weight...I know that was me. Look I've got much to loose but it's way easier if you can let go of the sugar, namely large amounts of fructose. I'm able to do things like intermittent fasting that I could never have done with my prior sugar intake. There's also the freedom from constant hunger and snacking and the hypoglycemia thing. People will tell you it's Psuedoscience and that you know nothing of how the metabolism works. They are wrong. Different foods are metabolized differently and effect your hormones differently. There is plenty of research out there that pans this out and has been sited repeatedly on this site. I would suggest you join us over at the paleo/primal group. Even if you don't go paleo you will find people who understand these concepts and are healthier for it.0 -
KombuchaCat wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
What makes all of this even more complicated is most store bought pasta sauces, yogurts etc. have both naturally occurring sugars AND added sugars...mamapeach910 wrote: »I'm currently limiting my intake of everything in appropriate ratios to meet my goals/nutritional needs.
I sometimes go over sugar, but I get a lot of natural sugar from plain dairy and vegetables.
One of the issues with your post, OP was that some of the sugar in the products you listed was from natural sources (tomatoes, lactose in the yogurt), and the WHO recommendations are for added sugars.
I don't have too much to add to the discussion, because Side Steel said everything best that I'd like to say, particularly in terms of general population vs. health conscious eaters.
Oh, except this. I got 20 grams of sugar one day... almost half my daily allowance from MFP... from cauliflower. I consumed no added "free" sugars that day and ended up over my goals.
Bottom line? You do you, I'll do me. I'm not overly worried about me and my small serving of evening gelato.
Plain yogurt doesn't.
Flavored yogurt does, and of course it's hard to sort out. I had some yesterday, as I said, and it had sugar from yogurt, blueberries, and a little cane sugar--I could only guess at how much based on placement on the label. In the scheme of things the addition of a little cane sugar didn't matter to me, although I'd normally avoid the issue since I like plain yogurt with blueberries as well or better. But people exaggerate the extent to which something like that yogurt contains added sugar, and I seriously doubt it contributes to the obesity issue at all. (Same with adding a little sugar to oatmeal or store-bought pasta sauce, although as I always say, I'm a snob about store-bought pasta sauce. The funny thing is plenty of traditional recipes for marinara will have a little sugar, even though I've never added it personally.)
Indeed, plain yogurt does not.
All yogurt has sugar but the difference is fructose. Plain yogurt only has lactose. Yogurt with added fruit has fructose from, of course, the fruit and then also usually more added sugar (sucrose which is half fructose). Your body metabolizing the various types of sugar differently. Plain and then adding your own fruit would be best if you want fruity yogurt so there is no added sugar.
So what's bad with added sugar that's not bad with the sugar from fruit? And don't say "micronutrients" because that has nothing to do with the sugar itself.0 -
weird misplaced post0
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KombuchaCat wrote: »FitnessTim wrote: »I'm surprised at how strongly people will defend sugar. I guess it is my fault for using the phrasing "sugar is bad". That's totally subjective and not true.
Based on historical data, excess sugar does appear to be a contributing factor to health issues.
Does that work for everyone? That may be an acceptable way to put it but it is unlikely to get the average person motivated to restrict their sugar intake.
In my personal experience, not evidence but worth discussing, sugar is hard to control. About a year ago, I was in peak condition, eating right and exercising regularly. One day I decided to try Nutella. I had never had it before and I was curious about how it tasted. I spread some on a rice cake and took a taste. To me, it was the best thing I had ever tasted. Short time later my healthy lifestyle was derailed.
I can't say that one taste of processed sugar was what sent me on a tailspin but it definitely made keeping my diet in check more difficult.
From WebMd:
Your Brain on SugarINEXPLICABLE WEIGHT GAIN You stay away from burgers and drink diet soda. But sugar—both real and artificial—is the secret saboteur. When the pancreas senses sugar, the body releases insulin, which causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen for energy. Eat too much at once, though, and insulin levels spike, then drop. The aftermath? You feel tired, then crave more sustenance to perk up.
I'm not suggesting that sugar has the same effect on everyone. I'm not saying that people on a high sugar diet can't keep their weight under control. What I am saying is that based on all the evidence and studies, it is worth it for people to question whether or not sugar has a negative impact on their health and fitness goals.
You have obviously never seen a sugar post on here. I've posted similar anti-sugar things and gotten the same response. People want to think they can eat whatever they want just smaller amounts and that fixes everything. Most of those people end up regaining the weight...I know that was me. Look I've got much to loose but it's way easier if you can let go of the sugar, namely large amounts of fructose. I'm able to do things like intermittent fasting that I could never have done with my prior sugar intake. There's also the freedom from constant hunger and snacking and the hypoglycemia thing. People will tell you it's Psuedoscience and that you know nothing of how the metabolism works. They are wrong. Different foods are metabolized differently and effect your hormones differently. There is plenty of research out there that pans this out and has been sited repeatedly on this site. I would suggest you join us over at the paleo/primal group. Even if you don't go paleo you will find people who understand these concepts and are healthier for it.
If not even the WHO can find a better argument for why you should limit added sugars than "It has calories" and "tooth decay", then I don't think the research you are talking about is as conclusive as you think it is.0 -
FitnessTim wrote: »I'm surprised at how strongly people will defend sugar. I guess it is my fault for using the phrasing "sugar is bad". That's totally subjective and not true.
Based on historical data, excess sugar does appear to be a contributing factor to health issues.
Speaking for myself, I am not "defending" sugar, but in some cases arguing against the current tendency to demonize it. IMO, excess calories + overweight cause the issues, not sugar. Is excess sugar a problem? Of course, just like excess starch or fat or even protein can be. Currently consumption of calories in general are up in the US, including from fat, so pretending like the issue is sugar is no different than the mistake made in the '80s and '90s about fat.
Should the average American reduce sugar consumption (which doesn't mean to near zero amounts)? Of course.
Is the reason Americans are fat flavored yogurt? Highly doubt it.In my personal experience, not evidence but worth discussing, sugar is hard to control. About a year ago, I was in peak condition, eating right and exercising regularly. One day I decided to try Nutella. I had never had it before and I was curious about how it tasted. I spread some on a rice cake and took a taste. To me, it was the best thing I had ever tasted. Short time later my healthy lifestyle was derailed.
This is not my personal experience. My issues with food (tasty food, of course) aren't particularly focused on sugar.
But I think the broader issue is that we live in a time when tasty (hyper palatable, if you prefer) foods are easily available. If I just ate sugary things I baked myself, I'd eat less than if I ate whatever caught my fancy at the store. Is that because the store stuff is "addictive"? No, it's because the cost of acquiring them (including time and effort) is so low.
I just want people to be honest about the reasons here and not pretend the food makes us eat it.0 -
Kombucha thanks for the support.
While I'm not interested the extremes of Paleo, from what I know, I can see how a person following that lifestyle would tend to be fit. You avoid sugar and wheat right?
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KombuchaCat wrote: »All yogurt has sugar but the difference is fructose. Plain yogurt only has lactose. Yogurt with added fruit has fructose from, of course, the fruit and then also usually more added sugar (sucrose which is half fructose). Your body metabolizing the various types of sugar differently. Plain and then adding your own fruit would be best if you want fruity yogurt so there is no added sugar.
(1) Not sure how this relates to what Sabine and I were discussing. Everyone had already agreed that plain yogurt (including nonfat) has sugar from lactose, fruit added has sugar, and flavored yogurts typically have additional added sugar (not always, some use fake sugar). The one I specifically referenced had a little cane sugar. Thus, I a, confused as to what you were intending to say--it seems you agree with this.
(2) Since you bring it up, why does the little bit of cane sugar added to the sugar (whether done by the manufacturer or by someone--not me, for the record--who thinks the yogurt needs to be a bit sweeter) make a meaningful difference to the nutritional value of the yogurt or the person's overall diet? Expand the question to someone who adds a little sugar to oatmeal or someone who adds sugar to a rhubarb sauce to make it a little sweeter, both examples I brought up previously. This is the kind of thing I think is weird overkill--the idea that a bit of sugar in a nutritious food somehow is awful or deadly or ruins it. Does your body react to that food meaningfully differently than the same food without the little bit of added sugar? I can't see how, and that's not at all what the WHO is claiming.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Indeed, plain yogurt does not.
I knew you knew that, but given the endless posts about how low fat or no fat dairy supposedly has "extra" sugar or sugar added, I thought it needed to be clarified.
Well given that many foods had sugar added when the fat was removed, it's not a surprising assumption.
Nope--doesn't follow. Given that plain dairy has sugar, it's ignorant.
ok0 -
FitnessTim wrote: »I'm surprised at how strongly people will defend sugar. I guess it is my fault for using the phrasing "sugar is bad". That's totally subjective and not true.
Based on historical data, excess sugar does appear to be a contributing factor to health issues.
Does that work for everyone? That may be an acceptable way to put it but it is unlikely to get the average person motivated to restrict their sugar intake.
In my personal experience, not evidence but worth discussing, sugar is hard to control. About a year ago, I was in peak condition, eating right and exercising regularly. One day I decided to try Nutella. I had never had it before and I was curious about how it tasted. I spread some on a rice cake and took a taste. To me, it was the best thing I had ever tasted. Short time later my healthy lifestyle was derailed.
I can't say that one taste of processed sugar was what sent me on a tailspin but it definitely made keeping my diet in check more difficult.
From WebMd:
Your Brain on SugarINEXPLICABLE WEIGHT GAIN You stay away from burgers and drink diet soda. But sugar—both real and artificial—is the secret saboteur. When the pancreas senses sugar, the body releases insulin, which causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen for energy. Eat too much at once, though, and insulin levels spike, then drop. The aftermath? You feel tired, then crave more sustenance to perk up.
I'm not suggesting that sugar has the same effect on everyone. I'm not saying that people on a high sugar diet can't keep their weight under control. What I am saying is that based on all the evidence and studies, it is worth it for people to question whether or not sugar has a negative impact on their health and fitness goals.
LOL
Depends on your time frame, I can take historical data for the last decade plus and it appears the decrease in sugar intake is contributing to obesity and disease
WebMD is a pretty strong source, wait...
As for using the WHO recommendations, did you by chance look at the sources they used to base those recommendations? If so, what is your opinion of the underlying data sources?
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KombuchaCat wrote: »FitnessTim wrote: »I'm surprised at how strongly people will defend sugar. I guess it is my fault for using the phrasing "sugar is bad". That's totally subjective and not true.
Based on historical data, excess sugar does appear to be a contributing factor to health issues.
Does that work for everyone? That may be an acceptable way to put it but it is unlikely to get the average person motivated to restrict their sugar intake.
In my personal experience, not evidence but worth discussing, sugar is hard to control. About a year ago, I was in peak condition, eating right and exercising regularly. One day I decided to try Nutella. I had never had it before and I was curious about how it tasted. I spread some on a rice cake and took a taste. To me, it was the best thing I had ever tasted. Short time later my healthy lifestyle was derailed.
I can't say that one taste of processed sugar was what sent me on a tailspin but it definitely made keeping my diet in check more difficult.
From WebMd:
Your Brain on SugarINEXPLICABLE WEIGHT GAIN You stay away from burgers and drink diet soda. But sugar—both real and artificial—is the secret saboteur. When the pancreas senses sugar, the body releases insulin, which causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen for energy. Eat too much at once, though, and insulin levels spike, then drop. The aftermath? You feel tired, then crave more sustenance to perk up.
I'm not suggesting that sugar has the same effect on everyone. I'm not saying that people on a high sugar diet can't keep their weight under control. What I am saying is that based on all the evidence and studies, it is worth it for people to question whether or not sugar has a negative impact on their health and fitness goals.
You have obviously never seen a sugar post on here. I've posted similar anti-sugar things and gotten the same response. People want to think they can eat whatever they want just smaller amounts and that fixes everything. Most of those people end up regaining the weight...I know that was me. Look I've got much to loose but it's way easier if you can let go of the sugar, namely large amounts of fructose. I'm able to do things like intermittent fasting that I could never have done with my prior sugar intake. There's also the freedom from constant hunger and snacking and the hypoglycemia thing. People will tell you it's Psuedoscience and that you know nothing of how the metabolism works. They are wrong. Different foods are metabolized differently and effect your hormones differently. There is plenty of research out there that pans this out and has been sited repeatedly on this site. I would suggest you join us over at the paleo/primal group. Even if you don't go paleo you will find people who understand these concepts and are healthier for it.
Large amounts of fructose? Lol
Go to the plaeo group as they understand and are healthier? Paleo adherents are generally some of the most ignorant people on the face of this earth. Esp funny as paleo man had a high sugar diet according to reconstructions of his diet sans the laughable Cordain reconstruction. And weird paleo man even ate grains0 -
KombuchaCat wrote: »I would suggest you join us over at the paleo/primal group. Even if you don't go paleo you will find people who understand these concepts and are healthier for it.
What always gets me here, also, is the inconsistency.
The WHO is used as a source when it says lower sugar, even though it's reasoning is the practical "excess calories and low nutrient foods contribute to weight gain" and not, in fact, the idea that sugar is itself toxic somehow.
However, the WHO's advice to decrease saturated fat and claim that sat fats also contribute to weight gain is hand waved away.
As I've said before, I'm not terribly convinced by a lot of the sat fat stuff either, but people ought to bring the same level of skepticism to all of these studies and be aware of the full scope of the nutritional advice and not just that that supports their pet ways to eat.
IMO, eating paleo or cutting out added sugar can work for some people, but claiming it's some superiority way to eat or results in better nutrition overall is not accurate.0 -
FitnessTim wrote: »I'm surprised at how strongly people will defend sugar. I guess it is my fault for using the phrasing "sugar is bad". That's totally subjective and not true.
Based on historical data, excess sugar does appear to be a contributing factor to health issues.
Does that work for everyone? That may be an acceptable way to put it but it is unlikely to get the average person motivated to restrict their sugar intake.
In my personal experience, not evidence but worth discussing, sugar is hard to control. About a year ago, I was in peak condition, eating right and exercising regularly. One day I decided to try Nutella. I had never had it before and I was curious about how it tasted. I spread some on a rice cake and took a taste. To me, it was the best thing I had ever tasted. Short time later my healthy lifestyle was derailed.
I can't say that one taste of processed sugar was what sent me on a tailspin but it definitely made keeping my diet in check more difficult.
From WebMd:
Your Brain on SugarINEXPLICABLE WEIGHT GAIN You stay away from burgers and drink diet soda. But sugar—both real and artificial—is the secret saboteur. When the pancreas senses sugar, the body releases insulin, which causes cells in the liver, muscle, and fat tissue to take up glucose from the blood, storing it as glycogen for energy. Eat too much at once, though, and insulin levels spike, then drop. The aftermath? You feel tired, then crave more sustenance to perk up.
I'm not suggesting that sugar has the same effect on everyone. I'm not saying that people on a high sugar diet can't keep their weight under control. What I am saying is that based on all the evidence and studies, it is worth it for people to question whether or not sugar has a negative impact on their health and fitness goals.
That's 1992, 2002 and 2014 from left to right.
Source: http://www.fao.org/3/a-i4175e.pdf0 -
Nobody knows for sure what the "perfect" diet is. All we can do is look at what data is out there and come to our own conclusions. I'm betting on a low sugar diet. Call it personal preference if you want.
If we don't want to try any theory on what we should eat, we can always try to fall back on just maintaining a calorie deficit. The problem is maintaining a calories deficit is not mathematical problem but rather a human problem. If it were that easy nobody would be overweight. The real problem is how can we maintain a calorie deficit in a way that has a reasonable chance of success over time.
By the way, Acg67 (or anyone else), do you have a link that shows a reduction in sugar intake over the past decade? I'm really curious about that because I believe recently that weight gain (in the US) has actually leveled out. I'll need to find that data as well.0 -
Some food for thought: do you have any sugary foods that you don't like? For example I'm not a big fan of ketchup. Would eating that food lead to uncontrollable intake? For example if I happen to be served something with ketchup would that lead to chugging it straight out of the bottle? The problem is not sugar itself, but losing control around foods we do like (most of which are savory in my case). It may just be a case of food tasting too good. If OP did not like that nutella, would he end up spiraling out of control? I tried flavored and sweetened greek yogurt. Next time I try it I better get paid for that. Give me plain any time of the day. Same with reese's peanut butter stuff.
I have a personal theory that labeling foods as bad and good or slapping some other special label on foods contributes to obesity because we tend to declare ourselves out of control if we happen to have some "forbidden fruits" or overeat on a certain day. Might as well give up and give in for the whole day or even for good if we can't make the "right" choice. That feeling of guilt labeling creates fuels a vicious cycle that is detrimental to our goals.
OP, you need to understand no one is defending sugar per se. It's that mindset of demonizing foods that some people here are against. You'll find that in most posts that push eliminating foods, be it gluten, carbs, fat, protein, dairy, meat, or anything really. This is not a case for sugar, it's a case for treating food as food and building your strategies around that without guilting yourself into failure. If limiting sugar comes as a result of those balanced strategies then so be it. I completely eliminated peanut butter from my diet for example, not because it's bad, but because it's not worth the calories it brings which I would rather spend on something else. I could have it any time I want guilt free, I just don't want to.0 -
FitnessTim wrote: »Nobody knows for sure what the "perfect" diet is. All we can do is look at what data is out there and come to our own conclusions. I'm betting on a low sugar diet. Call it personal preference if you want.
If we don't want to try any theory on what we should eat, we can always try to fall back on just maintaining a calorie deficit. The problem is maintaining a calories deficit is not mathematical problem but rather a human problem. If it were that easy nobody would be overweight. The real problem is how can we maintain a calorie deficit in a way that has a reasonable chance of success over time.
By the way, Acg67 (or anyone else), do you have a link that shows a reduction in sugar intake over the past decade? I'm really curious about that because I believe recently that weight gain (in the US) has actually leveled out. I'll need to find that data as well.
http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/food-availability-(per-capita)-data-system.aspx
Are you familiar with post hoc ergo propter hoc?
And you do understand all carbs are sugars? Right?0 -
I think sugar gets a bad rap.
It's like in the old days when they thought the night air caused fevers, when in reality it was the mosquitoes that came at night that caused the fevers.
Sugar feels bad because food that contains lots of sugar is generally very compelling to eat (you want to eat a lot of it) and calorie dense (so you end up eating a calorie surplus).
What we really need to do is cut back on our caloric intake. Cutting back on sugary foods is a good way to do that.
But for most people, sugar isn't unhealthy to eat.0 -
FitnessTim wrote: »Nobody knows for sure what the "perfect" diet is. All we can do is look at what data is out there and come to our own conclusions. I'm betting on a low sugar diet. Call it personal preference if you want.
If we don't want to try any theory on what we should eat, we can always try to fall back on just maintaining a calorie deficit. The problem is maintaining a calories deficit is not mathematical problem but rather a human problem. If it were that easy nobody would be overweight. The real problem is how can we maintain a calorie deficit in a way that has a reasonable chance of success over time.
By the way, Acg67 (or anyone else), do you have a link that shows a reduction in sugar intake over the past decade? I'm really curious about that because I believe recently that weight gain (in the US) has actually leveled out. I'll need to find that data as well.
I posted one right above you. Added sugar consumption (including honey) stayed about the same percentage wise over the past 22 years, grain consumption went down, fat went up, 200 more calories average.0 -
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granturismo wrote: »
No, all carbohydrates are sugars. They're synonyms.0 -
Another one of these threads? Really? Can’t there just be an anti-sugar group where you can all lament the evils of sugar to your heart’s content?
I really thought it was becoming evident by this point that not everyone will get on board with this particular demonization, and for good reason in my opinion. Are you trying to convert others to your particular set of sugar beliefs? Scare people into eating less sugar? I just don’t understand what you think you will accomplish. Why can’t losing weight just be about eating at a caloric deficit while meeting self-selected nutritional goals, without guilt or self-hatred for eating a donut every now and again?
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