Squatting and knee pain

alyhuggan

Just want to know if anyone else is in a similar boat to me

I've been squatting for over a year now and I've always had problems breaking parallel. I have exceptionally bad knee pains though.

This seems to pretty much completely subside when I use the following together:

10-15 minutes of warming up
A belt
Knee sleeves
Olympic shoes
A barbell with more than 60kg on it

Even trying bodyweight squats with all the above gives me a painful sharp stinging across both my knees and if I start to remove the "extras" it gets to the point of being agony to try stay down. This isn't a massive problem for squatting at the gym but I can't sit down into the deadlift position which is annoying as it used to be my favourite lift.

I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem or whether I should go see a doctor about it? I've been to my GP a good few times about my elbow when I wrecked it and was basically just told to stop weight training every time.

StereophoneyGaz

I struggle with my knees to from years of football, the only thing that works for me is rest then hitting it hard again until I get pain then resting again

alyhuggan

Stereophoney wrote: »

I struggle with my knees to from years of football, the only thing that works for me is rest then hitting it hard again until I get pain then resting again

I do that for squats but I can't get down to deadlift. Only way I can reach the bar without knee pain is rounding my back and I refuse to deadlift like that!

StereophoneyGaz

No don't do that !! Rather a sore knee than crooked back, can you try raising the bar for a deadlift, more of a rack pull ?

alyhuggan

Stereophoney wrote: »

No don't do that !! Rather a sore knee than crooked back, can you try raising the bar for a deadlift, more of a rack pull ?

I've been rack pulling instead of deadlifting since October, hoping I can get back to deadlifts asap!

StereophoneyGaz

Good luck pal

SpecialSundae

How's your mobility? My knees tend to hurt when I've been slacking on the foam rolling and my quads are tight.

If you're struggling to get down to the bar for deadlifts without rounding your back, you probably also have tight hamstrings.

Also, try speaking to a private physiotherapist who works mostly with sports rather than a GP. I have the greatest respect for GPs but they're not specialists in sports medicine and you can't expect them to be. NHS physiotherapists, again, are wonderful... but they're over-stretched and don't have an hour to spend looking at an issue which is only really causing you hassle in the gym. Spend the £40 and see a sports physio and you'll save a lot of wasted time.

alyhuggan

SpecialSundae wrote: »

How's your mobility? My knees tend to hurt when I've been slacking on the foam rolling and my quads are tight.

If you're struggling to get down to the bar for deadlifts without rounding your back, you probably also have tight hamstrings.

Also, try speaking to a private physiotherapist who works mostly with sports rather than a GP. I have the greatest respect for GPs but they're not specialists in sports medicine and you can't expect them to be. NHS physiotherapists, again, are wonderful... but they're over-stretched and don't have an hour to spend looking at an issue which is only really causing you hassle in the gym. Spend the £40 and see a sports physio and you'll save a lot of wasted time.

I foam roll every day and stretch out my back and legs most nights and before I workout!

(edit: want to mention I do extensive stretching for my hamstrings, spend anywhere from 5-10 minutes soely stretching them before any workout using my legs)

I've just moved back from University and currently have no income until I get a job for the summer however I'll look into the sports physio when I'm earning again!

lishie_rebooted

Don't go to a GP.
go to an orthopaedic Dr or physiotherapist

AllanMisner

alyhuggan wrote: »

Just want to know if anyone else is in a similar boat to me

I've been squatting for over a year now and I've always had problems breaking parallel. I have exceptionally bad knee pains though.

This seems to pretty much completely subside when I use the following together:

10-15 minutes of warming up
A belt
Knee sleeves
Olympic shoes
A barbell with more than 60kg on it

Even trying bodyweight squats with all the above gives me a painful sharp stinging across both my knees and if I start to remove the "extras" it gets to the point of being agony to try stay down. This isn't a massive problem for squatting at the gym but I can't sit down into the deadlift position which is annoying as it used to be my favourite lift.

I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem or whether I should go see a doctor about it? I've been to my GP a good few times about my elbow when I wrecked it and was basically just told to stop weight training every time.

You’re describing a mobility issue with your hips and/or ankles. Try your bodyweight squats facing a wall with your toes about 4 - 5 inches from the wall and your arms extended over year head (without the lifting aides you mentioned). If your hands, face or knees touch the wall, you’re in bad form.

On reason the bar helps correct the form is that you have to engage your core and glutes to balance the bar on your shoulders before you lift. That little bit of muscular engagement puts you in a better posture for the lift (the lifting shoes are covering for the mobility issues in your ankles).

MercuryBlue

I have the same issue with squats. My form's just fine, and I know I'm not doing anything wrong (I was in karate for several years, so I know how to hold a stance without risking injury), but I still get pretty bad knee pain after squatting. I figure it's either because I haven't built up as much muscle as I need to, putting more strain on the joint... or it's age. I'm still only in my early thirties, but already my body has a hard time doing things it used to.

alyhuggan

Thanks for the replies everyone! Gonna see a physio once I can afford it!

Upstate_Dunadan

You’re describing a mobility issue with your hips and/or ankles. Try your bodyweight squats facing a wall with your toes about 4 - 5 inches from the wall and your arms extended over year head (without the lifting aides you mentioned). If your hands, face or knees touch the wall, you’re in bad form.

On reason the bar helps correct the form is that you have to engage your core and glutes to balance the bar on your shoulders before you lift. That little bit of muscular engagement puts you in a better posture for the lift (the lifting shoes are covering for the mobility issues in your ankles).

When you squat, do your knees go past your toes? If so, that could be the cause, as it's putting a lot of sheer force on your knees. Your knees shouldn't go past your toes.

The above exercise will help determine this, since sometimes it's hard to peak down at your knees while squatting.

If you're not hinging your hips (picture sitting on the toilet) you're going to have a hard time keeping your knees where they need to be.

ninerbuff

sm4astan wrote: »

You’re describing a mobility issue with your hips and/or ankles. Try your bodyweight squats facing a wall with your toes about 4 - 5 inches from the wall and your arms extended over year head (without the lifting aides you mentioned). If your hands, face or knees touch the wall, you’re in bad form.

On reason the bar helps correct the form is that you have to engage your core and glutes to balance the bar on your shoulders before you lift. That little bit of muscular engagement puts you in a better posture for the lift (the lifting shoes are covering for the mobility issues in your ankles).

When you squat, do your knees go past your toes? If so, that could be the cause, as it's putting a lot of sheer force on your knees. Your knees shouldn't go past your toes.

The above exercise will help determine this, since sometimes it's hard to peak down at your knees while squatting.

If you're not hinging your hips (picture sitting on the toilet) you're going to have a hard time keeping your knees where they need to be.

Myth. Letting your knees pass your toes keeps the tension on the quads. Not letting them pass will shift it to the low back and hips.



Watch yourself climb stairs. Bet your knee goes past your toes.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

jimmmer

Hip or ankle mobility.

google some screening tests to see where the problem lays (and if it's worse one side or another). Then google to find suitable mobility/flexibility work to target the identified area.

Expect to take a month or two to effect lasting change. Soft tissue tends to adapt slowly and doesn't like to be bullied too quickly! Take your time and do it right. Finally, drink plenty of water - seriously, it helps when pursuing this stuff.

Azdak

You need to treat your current symptoms and quiet everything down. Then you need to go back and reevaluate your form and stop trying to use a "one size fits all" approach to your strength training.

Not everyone can squat to parallel.

Sometimes it's due to tightness that can be improved, sometimes it's due to physical differences that cannot be changed.

Start here:

http://bretcontreras.com/why-people-must-squat-differently/

dvflyer

Have the same issue. Can't say I've found much that cured it, but seems (for me) to be related to mobility/ tightness. My pain is on the top of my knee cap.

One thing that seems to have helped is to do a low bar squat. This changes the geometry of my squat but it feels like I can keep the weight over my midfoot- most of the pain occurs when I feel the weight shift to my toes.

elra45

You are describing classic symptoms of knee problems - could be a torn meniscus or even arthritis. Regardless of your age, an MRI should be able to define problem. Xrays will not tell if a meniscus is torn.

HamsterManV2

YOU HAVE TO GO TO PARALLEL OR LOWER TO AVOID KNEE PAIN WITH SQUATS

This is the case because quarter or half rep squats places the all the weight on your quads, which is fine until you stop above parallel, putting the shear force right into you knee (ACL, Meniscus) which is the cause of your knee pain. Going to parallel or lower creates minimal shearing force on your knee as the load is transferred to the hamstrings/glutes/quads.

This is basically what is happening to you:

A squat that is not deep enough (on the right) has all the shear force on your quads with little to none on your hams. That will pull you knee into a compromising position.
(PS this is a low bar position, so the upper torso leans forward more than the regular squat... but the idea about the legs remains the same).

Parallel is defined as top of the knee reaches where you hip hinges.
The middle figure is high-bar position, which is what most people do (right is low-bar and left is front squat). It's simple: put bars on traps, shove knees out and keep chest up as you descent, go straight down and back up.

and YES IT IS FINE FOR KNEES TO GO PAST TOES. As long as they are tracking over the toes, it is acceptable. Some people are built with long femurs which will go past the toes and that is 100% safe and fine. People who says squatting low or knees going past toes causes knee pain have absolutely no idea how to squat with good form, and you should immediately ignore them.


A good high bar squat with excellent depth. You don't need to go this low, but the hips must reach the knee level



The tricky part is most people have insufficient mobility, usually ankle and hips due to sitting down all day, driving everywhere, sitting when eating, etc. We lost mobility and need to train it again.

WATCH THIS VIDEO MANY TIMES

This is an excellent video for the different squatting positions and frequent questions (depth, mobility, form issues, etc.). Look at this video, work on your ankle and hip mobility every day, multiple times a day, and squat LIGHT until you are pain free with good form before you add weight again. I personally do "third world squats" for 10 minutes every day for ankle mobility (If you can't do it in one go, break it down to 2 or more sessions), and then you use your arms to shove your knees outward for hip mobility (~2 minutes, multiple times a day).

Good luck!

journalistjen

There is much good info here. Also keep in mind to strengthen all muscles in and surrounding the knees as well as the glutes. Bret Contreras has good exercises for the glutes.