ideal calories per day @ 20% bf *noob

draftsman28

I want to gain muscle bulk and got started on mfp to track my food. I have no idea what to expect to gain per week so I plug in .5# per week. I'm 39 yo, 5'-11.5", 175# @ 20% bf mfp says I should have 2400 calories a day with a sedentary office job. Am I on the right track?
I have never been able to gain much muscle in the past strength training at home. I just bought weight bench and started lifting and training seriously.Thanks

emezrahi

Mpf tells me I need 2910 a day, but from what I understand, it's the carbs and fiber you should be focusing on. Can someone else confirm this?

Edit: had to correct auto-correct

draftsman28

emezrahi wrote: »

Mpf tells me I need 2910 a day, but from what I understand, it's the carbs and fiber you should be focusing on. Can someone else confirm this?

Edit: had to correct auto-correct

Are you trying to gain .5# a week as well?

keithcw_the_first

It's the calories – although carbs are important and too much fiber will wreck your GI tract if you aren't used to it.

If you aren't sure about the goal, try it for a week or two and adjust upwards if necessary.

Also, make sure you're hitting your macros. After that, it's calories any way you can get it.

draftsman28

Macros?

keithcw_the_first

So, calories are split between carbs, protein, and fat. Broadly speaking.

People usually recommend between .8 grams and 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.

Fat is like, .4 grams a pound (variable, I don't remember at the moment.)

So if protein is 4 calories per gram and fat is 9 calories per gram, then you figure out how many carbs to get by dividing by 4 (also 4 calories per gram).

MyFitnessPal does this all for you; tracking it at least.

Hit your protein (140 - 175 grams) and the rest will pretty much follow. And you may even struggle getting enough calories. That's where the ice cream and peanut butter come in.

Sutnak

I'm sorry man, I was in your shoes once. Was pondering posting or not.

Bulking at 20% sucks.

You can end up putting on way too much fat, and you'll just look fat. BTDT, trying to atone for past sins now and it's really hard.

Just consider getting down to 12% (while training) before bulking. You'll be glad you did.

keithcw_the_first

Yeah I actually thought about this last night. 20% may be a tad high for bulking.

If nothing else, you're definitely in for a longer cut at the end of all of this.

draftsman28

I didn't realize what my bf was until I got out the tape measure. So would I be better off cutting or maintaining less calories per day? Will I be able to gain muscle while doing either?
Thanks for all the help
My ultimate goal is to gain muscle and definition and then loose the bf afterward. That's how bulking works correct?

keithcw_the_first

Well, you'll gain muscle but probably lose some definition, on account of the inevitable fat gains.

Then you take all that new lean mass and gradually cut down to reveal it.

20% is above where most people recommend bulking. If you're looking in the mirror and saying, "I'm okay with where I am and I'm okay with being a little fatter" then you could attempt something short - maybe two months?

I think I started my bulk a little high, but then I never had to worry about losing my six-pack. There wasn't one there to speak of. I figured if I kept cutting then there wouldn't be anything cool there to show so I wanted to put on more muscle first.

I'm not saying that my current bulk is right, or best practices. Just saying that's what I'm doing.

ndj1979

OP - you should really cut down to sub 15% before running a bulk ...

ndj1979

draftsman28 wrote: »

I didn't realize what my bf was until I got out the tape measure. So would I be better off cutting or maintaining less calories per day? Will I be able to gain muscle while doing either?
Thanks for all the help
My ultimate goal is to gain muscle and definition and then loose the bf afterward. That's how bulking works correct?

keep cutting.

if you want you can go to .5 pound per week loss and then when you are about 12% run the bulk ...

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draftsman28

Thanks for all your help guys! I'm band new to weight training and muscle building. I think cutting 1/2 pound a week is the best way to go while training. I should have done more research and measured my bf before considering gaining. Honestly I'm very surprised I'm at 20% bf. I can usually drop weight pretty easily especially in the summer (lots of yard work). O'well change of plans for this old guy
Thank again

ndj1979

draftsman28 wrote: »

Thanks for all your help guys! I'm band new to weight training and muscle building. I think cutting 1/2 pound a week is the best way to go while training. I should have done more research and measured my bf before considering gaining. Honestly I'm very surprised I'm at 20% bf. I can usually drop weight pretty easily especially in the summer (lots of yard work). O'well change of plans for this old guy
Thank again

what are you using to get 20% body fat?

draftsman28

what are you using to get 20% body fat?

...not working out, having a sedentary job, getting old. I think my usual food intake has been 2,000 calories. I wouldn't consider myself fat at all btw. Family and friends always say I'm too skinny and need to put on weight.

_lyndseybrooke_

draftsman28 wrote: »

what are you using to get 20% body fat?

...not working out, having a sedentary job, getting old. I think my usual food intake has been 2,000 calories. I wouldn't consider myself fat at all btw. Family and friends always say I'm too skinny and need to put on weight.

No, they're asking how you got the 20% number. Did you have your body fat tested in some fashion or is that a guess?

draftsman28

Ahh...determined by measuring height, waist, hip and neck measurements

ndj1979

LyndseyLovesToLift wrote: »

draftsman28 wrote: »

what are you using to get 20% body fat?

...not working out, having a sedentary job, getting old. I think my usual food intake has been 2,000 calories. I wouldn't consider myself fat at all btw. Family and friends always say I'm too skinny and need to put on weight.

No, they're asking how you got the 20% number. Did you have your body fat tested in some fashion or is that a guess?

yes, this..

how did you determine you have 20% body fat OP?

PwrLftr82

draftsman28 wrote: »

Ahh...determined by measuring height, waist, hip and neck measurements

Gotta be carful with those measurements. My measurements come out to 24% by and by bodpod I'm at 17-18%.

But I agree with the above. As a female, I don't even bulk until I'm at 16-17% bf. Currently running my third bulk now (5'5", 128 lbs, eating 2500 cals on week 3).

Brolympus

Agree with everybody here, you should drop bf before trying to bulk. For dudes, your P-ratio is tilted toward fat storage over muscle production at anything 20% or over. If you don't have much muscle on your frame, even 20% can look skinny (hence your family's comments). You will actually look more muscular as you drop fat. Most of the shredded athletes you see in magazines, TV, etc. look jacked because of super low bf.

And definitely spend some $ and get a proper body scan done if you are possibly on the fence about what to do. Calipers can be off by 5% or higher, and, for example, if they told you your bf was 15%....well that would leave you very confused what to do next. Comparison pictures are pretty helpful verifying bf, but nothing is foolproof.

Typically if you aren't sure what to do, a cut is the best answer. Fat loss rate doesn't really slow down until sub 10% for men, so you can drop at an optimal rate from almost any "functional" bf level. Most men that start a fitness program are over 20%, where muscle production is not optimal.

AliceDark

How recently did you get back into training, and what program are you running? You may still be able to achieve some solid noob gains at maintenance or a small deficit. This is also from Waldo's site (http://strengthunbound.com/bulking-complete-guide-for-beginners/):

"The body adapts to strength training at first through your nervous system, using the muscle you have more efficiently, and by increasing the number of nuclei in the muscles (which itself does not contribute to size). This initial adaptation acts as a foundation that will eventually allow hypertrophy to occur. [1]

When you first start strength training, the body just isn’t ready to grow bigger muscles efficiently.

When you have more than ample capacity for beginner strength gains, training doesn’t produce as much muscle tension or fatigue as the existing muscle is capable of producing. Given the exact same amount of muscle mass, if you compare a person that has been strength training 6 months vs. one that has been training 2 weeks, the more experienced trainee will be much stronger and will gain muscle much more efficiently in a calorie surplus.

Eventually beginner gains will slow down, once this occurs you will be able to efficiently grow bigger muscles. How will you know you’ve reach this point? Set to set and workout to workout fatigue will begin to increase dramatically, and workout to workout linear strength progression will begin to stall.

It should take 4-6 months of regular strength training for beginner gains start to slow down. You can definitely begin to bulk before this point, though efficiency will be sacrificed a bit (resulting in greater fat gain). Note however untrained individuals that have just begun strength training should wait a few months before attempting a calorie surplus."

draftsman28

I just got started lifting at home and on a regular schedule. Prior to that I was just doing push-up, pull-up, chair dips, dumbell curls, chest flys on a ball with resistance bands, etc on average once a week. I have no prior sports experience, no prior program and I wasn't serious about really gaining just building strength.

AliceDark

You could be making some really good noob strength gains, even eating at a small deficit, because you're basically untrained. Max those out first, then think about bulking if/when you need to. Look into programs like Starting Strength or Stronglifts. Do you have a barbell and plates at home, or just dumbbells?

ndj1979

OP - if you are just getting into lifting I would look at running starting strength or strong lifts for about 4-6 months and then graduate from there.

draftsman28

I just bought a used entry level bench, olympic barbell w/ 155# of weight plates. It's not the best but it will due for now. I'll definitely need something better when my lifts increase... I'm going to shed some pounds and continue working out building strength. Once I get the fat (weight) down I can consider bulking to gain muscle mass. The bf is a set back although I'm stoked on loosing it and building muscle. I just found plans online to build a dip station out of pvc pipe! I'm a huge DYI'er.
Thanks again everyone for your help