Losing weight while building muscle - cracked it!

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alibanjo
alibanjo Posts: 8 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Having spent the last year obsessively researching different diets and techniques to assist me consistently building muscle while losing body fat, I think I'vr finally got it. I had to adapt a bodybuilders diet with different research I've found, but I'm hitting my protein goals and losing weight. Anyone else found the right combination for them?

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  • hardcorex
    hardcorex Posts: 5 Member
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    I have found a decent blend but there were a few variables that helped me out. First, I had/have about 15lbs of excess calories I want to burn off. That's my calorie surplus. I have daily calories coming in from lean meats, etc. very similar to a BBer's diet plan of 8-10 lean meals per day. To me, keeping my metabolism sky high plus daily 15-20 minutes of high intensity cardio OR 25-40 minutes of sustained endurance cardio is helping me tone up. I also do a 4 day on 1 day off gym split where I primarily focus on physique and BB-type exercises.

    My opinion on building lbm and losing fat is the same as those little SUV/crossover cars. When you try doing two things at the same time - being an SUV and being a car, cutting and bulking - then you don't do either one as well. You get worse gas mileage than a car, and you still don't have as much storage or utility as an SUV. You don't get as much muscle and you don't get as much cuts.
  • alibanjo
    alibanjo Posts: 8 Member
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    Ha! I drive a crossover. I'm with you buddy. Is not the ideal way of doing it. My problem is that I eat like a horse, and have struggled putting my own diet together that accomplishes what I want. I do about 30 mins of HIT a day, and workout 4-5 days a week, but wasn't eating regularly enough and correct portion sizes to do what I needed, so I was getting more muscular, but keeping the weight on. Luckily, my wife works with a chap who's married to a pro bodybuilder, and he gave my missus his diet plan. I tinkered a little with it, and I'm now eating 6 small meals a day, and it seems to be doing the job!
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
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    So really this is not doing both at the same time. You got muscular and now you are cutting with a better diet and less calories..

    Gosh I was hoping to find a secret to this equation...darn it... :/
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
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    I thought the secret was to eat at maintenance, get enough carbs and protein and progressively lift heavy. Shouldn't that yield fat loss and muscle gain? Though I suppose it might not yield weight loss.
  • RoxieDawn
    RoxieDawn Posts: 15,488 Member
    edited May 2015
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    Need2Exerc1se wrote:
    I thought the secret was to eat at maintenance, get enough carbs and protein and progressively lift heavy. Shouldn't that yield fat loss and muscle gain? Though I suppose it might not yield weight loss.

    Can't get muscular as described above eating at maintenance as we know.. Muscular and fat equals surplus and now we are talking about cutting with diet and deficit...

    I really really wanted to see the secret code.. I wanted to see a real live example where someone is pulling this off and not just something from a news article you read online that says it is possible... I am sad... :'(
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    edited May 2015
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    IMO, this is a shades of gray conversation.

    Considering the body is constantly adapting to current conditions, it's silly to say that, over time, you're ABSOLUTELY ONLY losing weight/fat or ABSOLUTELY ONLY building muscle. Both things are happening most of the time, it's just that they are happening to such a minor degree that it may not be meaningful in the context of progression towards a goal.

    Ultimately, the closer your calorie intake is to your maintenance, the more balanced you will be in terms of burning fat and building muscle (assuming proper macros, exercise, etc.). The further you get from maintenance, the more your progress will favor one over the other.

    A couple of side notes -
    1. Your body can only adapt so much so fast. So if you are trying to both build muscle and shed fat at the same time, your progress will be slower than if you focused on one goal at a time.
    2. Don't confuse strength gains with muscle gains. Just because you can lift more doesn't necessarily mean you are building muscle.
    3. Don't confuse greater definition with more muscle. More often than not, definition results from lower body fat moreso than increased muscle. There is also the post workout "pump" that can influence appearance.


    Just my $.02
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    I thought the secret was to eat at maintenance, get enough carbs and protein and progressively lift heavy. Shouldn't that yield fat loss and muscle gain? Though I suppose it might not yield weight loss.

    Correct. This is what people mean when they talk about a recomp. Eat at maintenance, get proper macros, and lift.
  • thatonegirlwiththestuff
    thatonegirlwiththestuff Posts: 1,171 Member
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    Carb cycling. It's legit. Used by bodybuilders, fitness competitors, bikini competitors, etc. It's very possible to make small gains while leaning out with your diet tightened up.
  • mgopsill
    mgopsill Posts: 2 Member
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    Unfortunately everyone is different so no one answer. Personally I've managed to gain 1kg in a month and lose 1% body fat by very consistent and diligent following these protocols:
    1. Stronglifts 5x5: Workout every other day
    2. Ketogenic Diet: < 50g carb, < 140g protein, fat to satiety
    3. Intermittent Fast: no eating between 8pm - 12pm the next day
    I also vary working out on empty stomach and no post-workout feed with a big post-workout feeds. No post-workout feed promotes fat burn over muscle growth.

    This is not for everyone.

    I think the real key is consistency in following your chosen protocol. The good plan you stick to is better than a bad plan you quit or doubt.
  • Koldnomore
    Koldnomore Posts: 1,613 Member
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    I've been inadvertently doing a re-comp for close to 2 years. Lifting 2-3 times / week and doing cardio in he form of fast walking / slow jogging nearly every day. Been at the same weight but seeing some shape changing / inches lost (very slowly) I would love to start losing again but I can't seem to stop eating :persevere: I completely believe it's possible to do a little of both at the same time but OMG it's SOOOOOO painfully slow.
  • trigden1991
    trigden1991 Posts: 4,658 Member
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    There is evidence to show that calorie cycling can achieve this. Eating 200 calories above maintenance for workout days (3 days a week), eat 200 calories under maintenance on rest/cardio days (3 days a week) and 1 day at maintenance. This gives a weekly net caloric intake at maintenance however you have fuelled yourself on "muscle building" days.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    trigden1991 wrote: »
    There is evidence to show that calorie cycling can achieve this. Eating 200 calories above maintenance for workout days (3 days a week), eat 200 calories under maintenance on rest/cardio days (3 days a week) and 1 day at maintenance. This gives a weekly net caloric intake at maintenance however you have fuelled yourself on "muscle building" days.

    I thought the muscle building happened the day after working out while the muscle repairs? So would this plan be better served by eating 200 over the day after working out? Just thinking out loud really, but that's what I do. Of course, some of the days become a lift day and a "day after working out day" anyway...

  • alibanjo
    alibanjo Posts: 8 Member
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    I appreciate everyone's opinions. It certainly seems that nutrition is an individual thing, which works differently for everyone. Perhaps I should have popped a '...for me' in the title!
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    Hornsby wrote: »
    trigden1991 wrote: »
    There is evidence to show that calorie cycling can achieve this. Eating 200 calories above maintenance for workout days (3 days a week), eat 200 calories under maintenance on rest/cardio days (3 days a week) and 1 day at maintenance. This gives a weekly net caloric intake at maintenance however you have fuelled yourself on "muscle building" days.

    I thought the muscle building happened the day after working out while the muscle repairs? So would this plan be better served by eating 200 over the day after working out? Just thinking out loud really, but that's what I do. Of course, some of the days become a lift day and a "day after working out day" anyway...

    You've done a long term recomp, right? (I think?) Did you use 200 as your calorie over/under amount? Did you dance right around your TDEE or plan to come a bit under it? (I know it's always changing and impossible to hit right on but most recomp plans seem to instruct people to eat over 3 days and under 4 days, which comes out to a bit under for the week.)
  • Tried30UserNames
    Tried30UserNames Posts: 561 Member
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    Years ago, I had no trouble losing fat and gaining muscle using the "Body for Life" method. I wasn't counting calories, per say, but I was measuring out my portions, eating 6 times a day with quite a bit of protein, lifting heavy 3x per week and doing HIIT 3x a week. And I had one day to be lazy and eat whatever I wanted, which soon turned into eating one thing of whatever I wanted because when you eat super clean all week, one day of junk makes you sick.

    I don't know if it would work for others, but it worked for me for the half year I did it intensively.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    jemhh wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    trigden1991 wrote: »
    There is evidence to show that calorie cycling can achieve this. Eating 200 calories above maintenance for workout days (3 days a week), eat 200 calories under maintenance on rest/cardio days (3 days a week) and 1 day at maintenance. This gives a weekly net caloric intake at maintenance however you have fuelled yourself on "muscle building" days.

    I thought the muscle building happened the day after working out while the muscle repairs? So would this plan be better served by eating 200 over the day after working out? Just thinking out loud really, but that's what I do. Of course, some of the days become a lift day and a "day after working out day" anyway...

    You've done a long term recomp, right? (I think?) Did you use 200 as your calorie over/under amount? Did you dance right around your TDEE or plan to come a bit under it? (I know it's always changing and impossible to hit right on but most recomp plans seem to instruct people to eat over 3 days and under 4 days, which comes out to a bit under for the week.)

    I try to eat right around maintenance on most days but am not as strict on lifting days. I don't really have a set number I try to hit. I'm not that serious about it.
  • Upstate_Dunadan
    Upstate_Dunadan Posts: 435 Member
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    Very interesting topic. I've been working on a recomp since the beginning of the year and to me it's like walking on knife edge. Very slow, but I'm definitely seeing progress - just not nearly as fast as a cut of bulk.

    What I've been curious about is the timing of everything related to macros. We all break things up into days, with some days being below, above, or right on (depending on method) but I wouldn't think your body works on that same 24 hour calendar. It's not like as of midnight your body tallies up the daily calories, says here's what I have (deficit/surplus) so now I cut/bulk.

    If that's true, and it's not based on calendar day, is it weekly, minute by minute, hour by hour? I've always thought of it more as real-time - after a workout your body needs to repair itself so at that time it looks at what it has. If there is a surplus of the proper nutrients, it repairs/builds muscle? If a deficit, it just burns fat?

    Just rambling really, but I'd love to better understand it. With recent studies claiming to debunk post-workout nutrition, I'm not really sure what to believe. I just don't think it can be based on exact 24-hour day.

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