logging in HIIT workouts

cvpastore

How do you log in HIIT workouts? Also, I have MPF sinced with FitBit and since strength training measure steps what's the best way to log those calories in? I'm sure there's a link somewhere addressing it, but I can't find it. Thanks!

MeanderingMammal

Circuit training, general

89Madeline

I create my own 'HIIT workout' and added the calories I burned according to my HRM

spzjlb

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Circuit training, general

This is what I do, too. I don't have a fitbit or HRM. I suspect that I am underestimating my burn, but that serves me well in the long run.

MeanderingMammal

spzjlb wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Circuit training, general

This is what I do, too. I don't have a fitbit or HRM. I suspect that I am underestimating my burn, but that serves me well in the long run.

Actually an HRM will overestimate, as a true HIIT session is aimed at improving VO2Max not aerobic capacity.

That said, most people asking about HIIT logging on here generally aren't doing true HIIT, just intervals.

HRMs are designed using research from steady state CV work on treadmills, cycle and rowing ergometers, so their accuracy is closest in those scenarios.

kamakazeekim

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Circuit training, general

this is what I do but I purposefully drastically underestimate my calorie burn...I generally record burning only 100-200 calories max per 60 minutes of training.

89Madeline

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

spzjlb wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Circuit training, general

This is what I do, too. I don't have a fitbit or HRM. I suspect that I am underestimating my burn, but that serves me well in the long run.

Actually an HRM will overestimate, as a true HIIT session is aimed at improving VO2Max not aerobic capacity.

That said, most people asking about HIIT logging on here generally aren't doing true HIIT, just intervals.

HRMs are designed using research from steady state CV work on treadmills, cycle and rowing ergometers, so their accuracy is closest in those scenarios.

Interesting, I didn't know the HRM will over estimate. So how do you differ between HIIT and intervals? I did a pyramid program, starting (and ending) with 1.6 km slow pace. Then, I did build ups from 0:30, 0:45 up to 1:30 sprint, with a rest of 0:45 seconds in between. Good to know HRM will overestimate, is there a way to adjust?

MeanderingMammal

myfitterlife wrote: »

Interesting, I didn't know the HRM will over estimate. So how do you differ between HIIT and intervals?

For a HIIT session I'd normally expect to be completely totalled afterwards, and in need of a recovery session the following day. So if I was running I'd do a 15 minute warm up at easy pace, follow that by ten to fifteen repeats of 100m sprints in the order of 98%MHR with one minute between, and a 15 minute cooldown. The amount of effort leaves you utterly depleted. It's a once a week workout on a par with the long run. Similarly on the bike it would be something similar in terms of structure with the high intensities being in the realms of standing up in the highest gear and still knocking out 80rpm on the pedals.

Intervals would tend to be longer periods of intense effort, longer rest periods, something like 400 metre run repeats or say the turbo trainer session I did last night which was 5 periods of 4 minutes of higher intensity. My heart rate topped out at 200bpm, but that was a function of sustaining 5 periods of effort at comparable intensities.

The reason that HR isn't a good proxy for calorie expenditure in these kind of sessions is that it takes time to come down, and in HIIT rest periods it won't have come down to normal working level by the end of the rest period, so the HRM will assume a higher level of expenditure in the rest period. Also when the HR is in the higher intensity phases the body is working anaerobically, rather than aerobically. The energy channels are different and the body is working less efficiently in terms of burning fuel.

It's also worth noting that in long sessions the heart rate will drift upwards as well, so again providing an artificially high estimation.

Good to know HRM will overestimate, is there a way to adjust?

Some devices use algorithms that are better at accounting for the issues. Garmin and Suunto. I don't think Polar use those algorithms, but they may do in their more advanced devices.

I'll generally just discount about 20% for a threshold session, 30% for an intervals session and up to 50% for sprints.

MeanderingMammal

kamakazeekim wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

Circuit training, general

this is what I do but I purposefully drastically underestimate my calorie burn...I generally record burning only 100-200 calories max per 60 minutes of training.

Depends what your training is, but that's probably excessively low. For resistance training I'd assume about 200 cals per 30 minutes, whereas for trail running I'd probably get about 800 cals per hour.

yopeeps025

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

myfitterlife wrote: »

Interesting, I didn't know the HRM will over estimate. So how do you differ between HIIT and intervals?

For a HIIT session I'd normally expect to be completely totalled afterwards, and in need of a recovery session the following day. So if I was running I'd do a 15 minute warm up at easy pace, follow that by ten to fifteen repeats of 100m sprints in the order of 98%MHR with one minute between, and a 15 minute cooldown. The amount of effort leaves you utterly depleted. It's a once a week workout on a par with the long run. Similarly on the bike it would be something similar in terms of structure with the high intensities being in the realms of standing up in the highest gear and still knocking out 80rpm on the pedals.

Intervals would tend to be longer periods of intense effort, longer rest periods, something like 400 metre run repeats or say the turbo trainer session I did last night which was 5 periods of 4 minutes of higher intensity. My heart rate topped out at 200bpm, but that was a function of sustaining 5 periods of effort at comparable intensities.

The reason that HR isn't a good proxy for calorie expenditure in these kind of sessions is that it takes time to come down, and in HIIT rest periods it won't have come down to normal working level by the end of the rest period, so the HRM will assume a higher level of expenditure in the rest period. Also when the HR is in the higher intensity phases the body is working anaerobically, rather than aerobically. The energy channels are different and the body is working less efficiently in terms of burning fuel.

It's also worth noting that in long sessions the heart rate will drift upwards as well, so again providing an artificially high estimation.

Good to know HRM will overestimate, is there a way to adjust?

Some devices use algorithms that are better at accounting for the issues. Garmin and Suunto. I don't think Polar use those algorithms, but they may do in their more advanced devices.

I'll generally just discount about 20% for a threshold session, 30% for an intervals session and up to 50% for sprints.

I heard training at that high of MHR can be dangerous?

MeanderingMammal

yopeeps025 wrote: »

I heard training at that high of MHR can be dangerous?

Dangerous for untrained people, to an extent. That's one of the reasons I'm very hostile to the uncritical promotion of HIIT as a magic bullet by many on this site. In addition, to someone with a limited aerobic base, it has very limited utility.

HIIT improves VO2Max, and can when used over a sustained period lead to a small increase in fat being used as a source of energy. The research supports that, but when one starts to unpick the reporting it's clear that what they're talking about is very marginal gains. When one is talking about 0.001 cf 0.002 then it's clear that the latter is twice the former, but that's like debating the value of insignificant compared to trivial

For trained individuals it's useful to train that that level in order to improve performance, as part of a wider plan utilising the different types of sessions.

Note that getting the value depends on really understanding ones MHR, and lactate threshold, preferably lab based. Personally I haven't done lab based, because my training isn't sophisticated enough to benefit from it. My theoretical MHR is 175, but in practice that's my lactate threshold. The 10K that I raced two weeks ago my average heart rate over the race was 175bpm. So the estimating methods have got a very wide margin for error, and they're not really appropriate for trained individuals.

Some devices, and I'm thinking the high end stuff like the 920XT, can do a VO2Max estimation based on fitness testing whilst using them. That's quite useful, but equally someone dropping £500 on a sports watch probably has a reasonably considered training plan going on.

kcjchang

^^ ditto. I'm also bothered by the misuse of HIT. The worst has to be interchanging the two terms. HIIT is not the same as HIT. HIT is weight lifting only.

80rpm on a bike is way to low! It's in the range of 120+ rpm and speeds reaching 40+mph while sustaining upper 30s for over 30 seconds. In my amateur racing days, I routinely hit 40+mph sprints but I was one of the slow guys since I can't sustain the lead up that can cover 2k or more.

See http://www.trainingbible.com/joesblog/2009/11/quick-guide-to-setting-zones.html on setting up your training zones based on LTHR.

To get a general sense of what HIIT is, Google Peter Coe, Tabata, Gibala, and Timmons regiment. If done properly, you should feel like puking or there about but YMMV.

HRM is useless for HIIT as the interval will be over before your heart rate catches up: lag time is in the 15 to 30 seconds with 2 to 3 minutes needed to stabilize at the new level of exertion.

MeanderingMammal

kcjchang wrote: »

80rpm on a bike is way to low.

hill climb simulation