After the bulk?

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keithcw_the_first
keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
If .5 lbs./week is a good rate for gaining, what's a good rate of fat loss post bulk? 1 lb./week?

Or does anyone ever just bulk to a plateau and ride that plateau out for a while?
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  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    Like… depending on how much fat is gained? Or rather, how much there is to lose?
  • jmule24
    jmule24 Posts: 1,404 Member
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    The last thing you want to do is cut too fast and end up where you started pre-bulk. It happens more often than you think.
    From experience .5-1lb/week has worked the best for me where I've kept a majority of my lean mass, my strength is still ok, and I'm not completely drained all of the time. (Seems to be very common among other people too)
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    6' 0"
    Currently at ~198
    I did stronglifts in 2011/2012 and made modest gains but I didn't eat enough.

    I've been training again since fall 2014 or so. It's been 3x5 strength sets with 3x12 volume sets since maybe April 2015.

    Bulking since April, with strength gains coming along slowly.

    Gained about 5# since April.
  • trigden1991
    trigden1991 Posts: 4,658 Member
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    In my opinion; if you are over 17% bodyfat you can afford to lose about 1-2lbs a month but once you go below you should slow down to 0.5-1lb. Sub 15% should be 0.25-0.5
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,139 Member
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    keithcw_the_first wrote: »
    6' 0"
    Currently at ~198
    I did stronglifts in 2011/2012 and made modest gains but I didn't eat enough.

    I've been training again since fall 2014 or so. It's been 3x5 strength sets with 3x12 volume sets since maybe April 2015.

    Bulking since April, with strength gains coming along slowly.

    Gained about 5# since April.

    did you have a goal weight in mind when you started?

    bulking for only a month and gaining 5 pounds does not really sound like enough time to me…you would be looking at 2.5 pounds of fat and 2.5 pounds of muscle..most shoot for at least a ten pound gain ….
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    I was thinking 200, maybe with a reach goal of 205 depending on how pants are fitting.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    Bump
  • jmule24
    jmule24 Posts: 1,404 Member
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    Why are you trying to gain so quickly? Are you just wanting to add weight of any kind or are you trying to add muscle?
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    Bear in mind that of that 5lb, you're carrying extra glycogen/water and extra poop in your bowels.

    These are the first thing to go once you stop bulking.

    Whatever's left over will be fat and some muscle.

    Lose the fat, how much muscle have you realistically gained? That's given optimal training, sleep, macros, genetics, etc.

    I can tell you from personal experience you'll end up mostly where you started if you cut now. I'd push on 5-10lb past your goal at least - it'll give you something more tangible once you've done your cut.


  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    @jmule24 I thought .5 lbs a week was usually quoted as a conservative goal for bulking...

    @jimmmer Thanks - that's kind of what I though/was afraid of.
  • jmule24
    jmule24 Posts: 1,404 Member
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    I mis-read your post and thought you had gained 5lbs in one month and were already looking to cut... my apologies.....

    Yes, 0.5lb/week is great but it's going to take you to years' end at that rate to hit Jimmmer's suggestion... A lot can change in that amount time....
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    So let's say I hit 10 lbs. gained and really have it dialed in. I mean, not picking the one day where the scale is three pounds higher and saying "okay that's it!"

    More where I'm holding steady at +10lbs. for a week or two. Good time to cut then at about 1lb. a week?

    It does sound like I need to shoot for a larger bulk which, yeah, would take like another three months. If the pants stop fitting it will stop that short. I'll cut down and bulk again.
  • Brolympus
    Brolympus Posts: 360 Member
    edited May 2015
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    Easy way to decide when you are done is by utilizing your body's p-ratio. P-ratio dictates how your body allocates calories. It's influenced by genetics a bit, but a big part of it is your current body fat % (Do not base your bodyfat reading off those bio-electric impedance scales, those are super inaccurate. Multiple-point caliper test or BodPod/DexaScan if you can)

    When you have a low bodyfat (10-15% for men), your body is more likely to allocate excess calories to muscle production. When you have a higher bodyfat (20%+ for men), your body tends to put excess calories into fat storage. Conversely, it is easy to drop fat at higher body fat %, and becomes progressively harder to do so the leaner you become. The "bottom" of the bracket where it is no longer efficient to cut is 10-12% bodyfat.

    A good place to stop bulking is when you hit roughly 20% bodyfat. Your body is not going to be efficiently using calories for muscle production anymore. Next step would be to plan a steady 0.5 per week cut until you hit the 10-12% bodyfat range. Rinse, repeat until swole.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
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    I've heard about the P ratio; do you find its been accurate in your experience?
  • Brolympus
    Brolympus Posts: 360 Member
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    Hard to say. I didn't learn out about the p-ratio and the science behind it until 9 months into my training (about halfway through my first cut). I definitely did notice the fat loss got stubborn once I tried to drop below 12%bf. And I remember getting frustrated that my weight was climbing but my lifts were stagnant towards the end of my last bulk. Genetics is unfortunately a big part of this phenomenon, but your bf% does play a significant role as well.

    There is a decent amount of research available on the interwebz regarding the subject. Recognize your body really has two ratios; one to decide partitioning for excess calories, and one for partitioning where to take calories from in a deficit. These "numbers" are not fixed, they are influenced by a whole lot of variables, but you can expect them to hover around an average which, again, is primarily determined by genetics. The best you can do is optimize everything you CAN control, such as body fat, to improve its favorability with whatever phase you are currently in.
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
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    so recomps are gtg when over 20% right?
  • Brolympus
    Brolympus Posts: 360 Member
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    draznyth wrote: »
    so recomps are gtg when over 20% right?

    What lead you to that conclusion?
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
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    Brolympus wrote: »
    draznyth wrote: »
    so recomps are gtg when over 20% right?

    What lead you to that conclusion?

    nothing concrete, just some broscience getting thrown around. something about recomps being more viable the higher your BF is

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