Why does someone still fell hungry when they don't need any more food?
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martinel2099 wrote: »Is fat really the enemy? Our bodies are designed to store excess energy in the form of fat in the event we spend a period of time without a decent meal. It's why we are alive as a species today. The trick is understanding that and watching what you consume and adjust appropriately. Your body doesn't "need" to consome more calories than you need, but it wouldn't mind having extra energy around for a rainy day.
Yeah, I think this is biologically true. It's why I don't think intuitive eating works for many of us. We are adapted to eat when food is available, not at specific times when we need it. So it's really easy to feel hungry (or more precisely to feel like eating) based on environmental cues.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »This question was asked in another thread and it seemed worthy of its own topic. Have we really gotten to the root of the problem, saying overweight and obesity is caused by overeating? If someone feels hungry after there TDEE has been met, those hunger signals are a physiological response. What is the cause of the intense hunger?
I'm going to say that a lot of people overeating aren't doing so because of actual hunger but rather habit, boredom, stress, emotional issues, etc.
Beyond that, a lot of people's food choices aren't the most satiating. I can eat a bag of potato chips at the expense of a couple thousand calories and easily go over my calorie targets while likely still being hungry at some point throughout the day...I'd be hard pressed to do that with an actual potato.
Interesting. Why do you suppose that is, since potato chips are made from actual potatoes?0 -
Some foods make me feel hungry even when I'm not. I try to avoid them.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »For the most part, though, I don't actually think people overeat because of hunger or even perceived hunger. I think more often it's because food tastes good and is there. Do you keep eating in a restaurant (if you ever do) because you are hungry? Or simply because there are no cues telling you to stop eating?
I can keep eating (and on occasion do) when food is convenient and delicious but only up to a point; I get full and eating more is no longer enjoyable. But I'll also spontaneously eat less following high calorie days. In other words, when my appetite is normal, I'm weight stable with little thought or effort on my part even eating delicious, highly palatable foods.
I believe food norms play a part (anytime, anywhere is a good time to eat kinda thing) but I think that accounts for being overweight not the extremes. It was absolutely scary how quickly and easily it was for my weight to spiral out of control -- I was always hungry and I had no stopping point. Then, of course, I had to rely on external cues and counting calories and the like.
I simply cannot claim I was overweight because I was hungry. I wasn't. I misused food and I enjoyed food and I ate too fast (like in a restaurant where one keeps eating and then regrets it vs. stopping and waiting 10 minutes and realizing you don't need any more or simply deciding in advance to eat a particular amount).
I didn't start out with a messed up appetite or an issue with my weight. I believe I ate my way to this point (needing to rely on a low carb diet in or to have a normal appetite) eating a diet largely made up of low quality foods. It wasn't until I starting eating more and more and my weight was spiraling out of control I realized I needed to put a stop to it. I never expected there would be an issue that eating "right" and exercising didn't fix.
The problem might start with poor eating habits but I don't think people get so fat, so fast without an underlying medical condition driving the weight gain.
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We are hard wired to eat whenever food is available. Food used to almost never be available, so that was a clever thought out trait. Today, it's quite inconvenient.
We like food that tastes and looks good - brightly colored, sweet, non-bitter, fatty and salty - traits of safe and calorie- and nutrient-dense food; rare and thus very attractive in nature. Some modern highly processed foods taste so good - mimicks those traits and exaggerate them to the absurd - that they are truly irresistible. This food is also very cheap, because it's made from cheap, nutritionally poor, everlasting ingredients. Producing larger quantities represents almost no additional costs, and we like the percieved value for money, then we will be returning customers, and the industry knows that.
Social norms no longer dictate moderation and only eating at meals, it's okay to eat whatever, whenever, and as much as we want, and we are conditioned by advertising to expect to get the food and eat it as fast as possible. Eating all the time leaves us no longer capable of differenciating hunger pangs from sensations of digestion of the food we just ate. Cooking and sitting down to eat, is viewed as time consuming, boring, old-fashioned, and low status.
Eating is nevertheless a social activity, and we use food for entertainment and comfort, for celebration, to fight boredom and ease anxiety. Families are getting smaller; loneliness, depression and mental illness is more common. Continued stress depletes our mental capacity; the frontal lobe, which controls decision making and impulse control, is especially vulnerable. Lowered impulse control will make us more inclined to choose short-term gratification instead of working for long-term goals.
We can eat and eat and never feel satisfied, even after getting more than enough calories, if the food doesn't have sufficient amounts of all the nutrients we need, and especially if it tastes as if it does. Malnourishment can also affect the brain and cognitive function, and thus rational behavior.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »We are hard wired to eat whenever food is available... <snip> We can eat and eat and never feel satisfied, even after getting more than enough calories, if the food doesn't have sufficient amounts of all the nutrients we need, and especially if it tastes as if it does.
That is not my experience at all. When I'm not hungry I have zero interest in food -- even delicious food right in front of me. I don't think that's unusual; if you look at children it's quite common. The last part of your statement isn't true for me either. I ate low quality food for years and my hunger was perfectly satisfied. Calories were calories and all equally satisfying.
My comments aren't meant to be combative, BTW. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »We are hard wired to eat whenever food is available... <snip> We can eat and eat and never feel satisfied, even after getting more than enough calories, if the food doesn't have sufficient amounts of all the nutrients we need, and especially if it tastes as if it does.
That is not my experience at all. When I'm not hungry I have zero interest in food -- even delicious food right in front of me. I don't think that's unusual; if you look at children it's quite common. The last part of your statement isn't true for me either. I ate low quality food for years and my hunger was perfectly satisfied. Calories were calories and all equally satisfying.
My comments aren't meant to be combative, BTW. I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
I used to be like that as a child too - I found eating extremely boring and had to be cajoled to the table
But the food then was just food, nutritous, balanced, nothing fancy, sometimes downright bland. I experience some of that feeling now, when I strive to assemble nutricious meals, but that are tasty too, so I look forward to eating. And I don't get anxious-MUST EAT NOW-hungry, like I used to when eating poorly, which I did on and off for many years, gaining weight as a predictable outcome. 0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »For the most part, though, I don't actually think people overeat because of hunger or even perceived hunger. I think more often it's because food tastes good and is there. Do you keep eating in a restaurant (if you ever do) because you are hungry? Or simply because there are no cues telling you to stop eating?
I can keep eating (and on occasion do) when food is convenient and delicious but only up to a point; I get full and eating more is no longer enjoyable. But I'll also spontaneously eat less following high calorie days. In other words, when my appetite is normal, I'm weight stable with little thought or effort on my part even eating delicious, highly palatable foods.
I believe food norms play a part (anytime, anywhere is a good time to eat kinda thing) but I think that accounts for being overweight not the extremes. It was absolutely scary how quickly and easily it was for my weight to spiral out of control -- I was always hungry and I had no stopping point. Then, of course, I had to rely on external cues and counting calories and the like.
I simply cannot claim I was overweight because I was hungry. I wasn't. I misused food and I enjoyed food and I ate too fast (like in a restaurant where one keeps eating and then regrets it vs. stopping and waiting 10 minutes and realizing you don't need any more or simply deciding in advance to eat a particular amount).
I didn't start out with a messed up appetite or an issue with my weight. I believe I ate my way to this point (needing to rely on a low carb diet in or to have a normal appetite) eating a diet largely made up of low quality foods. It wasn't until I starting eating more and more and my weight was spiraling out of control I realized I needed to put a stop to it. I never expected there would be an issue that eating "right" and exercising didn't fix.
The problem might start with poor eating habits but I don't think people get so fat, so fast without an underlying medical condition driving the weight gain.
I got pretty fat, pretty fast, but it was probably psychological in my case. At least I had zero problem even doing 1200 calories when I finally got motivated to deal with my issues. (I couldn't do 1200 right now I don't think, but am not experiencing a problem eating at maintenance, even without logging, and am about to go back to a deficit.)
One thing, though, is that it's easy to become overweight without a medical condition--I did it more gradually earlier in my life--and for me it had a snowball effect. I started eating worse (which means more indulgently, as I was doing fancy restaurants a lot at the time, not non-nutritiously) once I was already fat, since I figured it didn't matter. In other words, I figured at least one perk of being fat was I didn't have to think about what I ate. I think that's what brought me from 150 (BMI about 26 or so, which was the result of going from active to not) to 185-ish (and officially obese).
This last (second) time I was kind of in denial that I'd gotten quite a bit heavier than I'd been even before, but there was a good bit of depression and other psychological stuff going on, as I mentioned.
I have no internal eating brakes, though, although the compensation is I don't seem to have a strong physical hunger issue either. I eat to schedule pretty well.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Several people on this thread mentioned that eating certain foods triggered them to feel hungrier. Could it be this be touching on one of the underlying causes of overweight and obesity (i.e. eating the wrong foods)?
I doubt it...if I eat an apple I "feel" hungry in about 30mins..but I am not hungry I just ate.
It's nonsensical to say feeling hungry has nothing to do with obesity. Surely you can see that?
Well, yes and no. Go with Stef's example. She said she eats an apple, then feels hungry 30 minutes later.
This is where learning new habits comes in.
If we, as our overweight selves, always thought that hunger was an imperative, than that meant we HAD to eat.
However, we are rational beings. We can apply that and overcome this. Your body will learn. Those hormones that might be out of whack and making you feel hungry after the apple? They'll level out. You can tell yourself, "I JUST ate 100 calories. My body does not need energy right now." And then you can choose to drink a glass of water and/or chew a stick of sugarless gum.
It's not easy, but it can work. And those false hunger signals do pass. I've been there, done that. Even real hunger passes.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Several people on this thread mentioned that eating certain foods triggered them to feel hungrier. Could it be this be touching on one of the underlying causes of overweight and obesity (i.e. eating the wrong foods)?
I doubt it...if I eat an apple I "feel" hungry in about 30mins..but I am not hungry I just ate.
It's nonsensical to say feeling hungry has nothing to do with obesity. Surely you can see that?
Well, yes and no. Go with Stef's example. She said she eats an apple, then feels hungry 30 minutes later.
This is where learning new habits comes in.
If we, as our overweight selves, always thought that hunger was an imperative, than that meant we HAD to eat.
However, we are rational beings. We can apply that and overcome this. Your body will learn. Those hormones that might be out of whack and making you feel hungry after the apple? They'll level out. You can tell yourself, "I JUST ate 100 calories. My body does not need energy right now." And then you can choose to drink a glass of water and/or chew a stick of sugarless gum.
It's not easy, but it can work. And those false hunger signals do pass. I've been there, done that. Even real hunger passes.
What is the time-frame for the hormones to level out? How long must one suffer with an insatiable appetite and hunger before the body learns, as you claim, to not be hungry? I'm not so sure it is a good idea to ignore hunger cues, as it causes a stress response. The spike in cortisol from the stress also raises blood sugar.
Having blood sugar issues, I'll think I'll pass on being hangry and try eating only satiating low carb foods to keep hunger in check.
Eating just an apple for a snack on an empty stomach makes me crazy hungry, REAL hunger, in 30 minutes. I burn that fuel up in no time and my body is like "WTF? Give me a beef stick!"0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Several people on this thread mentioned that eating certain foods triggered them to feel hungrier. Could it be this be touching on one of the underlying causes of overweight and obesity (i.e. eating the wrong foods)?
I doubt it...if I eat an apple I "feel" hungry in about 30mins..but I am not hungry I just ate.
It's nonsensical to say feeling hungry has nothing to do with obesity. Surely you can see that?
Well, yes and no. Go with Stef's example. She said she eats an apple, then feels hungry 30 minutes later.
This is where learning new habits comes in.
If we, as our overweight selves, always thought that hunger was an imperative, than that meant we HAD to eat.
However, we are rational beings. We can apply that and overcome this. Your body will learn. Those hormones that might be out of whack and making you feel hungry after the apple? They'll level out. You can tell yourself, "I JUST ate 100 calories. My body does not need energy right now." And then you can choose to drink a glass of water and/or chew a stick of sugarless gum.
It's not easy, but it can work. And those false hunger signals do pass. I've been there, done that. Even real hunger passes.
What is the time-frame for the hormones to level out? How long must one suffer with an insatiable appetite and hunger before the body learns, as you claim, to not be hungry? I'm not so sure it is a good idea to ignore hunger cues, as it causes a stress response. The spike in cortisol from the stress also raises blood sugar.
Having blood sugar issues, I'll think I'll pass on being hangry and try eating only satiating low carb foods to keep hunger in check.
Eating just an apple for a snack on an empty stomach makes me crazy hungry, REAL hunger, in 30 minutes. I burn that fuel up in no time and my body is like "WTF? Give me a beef stick!"
Well, if you have blood sugar issues, that's one thing.
Your description of "insatiable appetite" is a bit hyperbolic, but perhaps that's due to your experiences thanks to your issues with blood sugar.
I've lived it myself. I don't remember how long it took, but it wasn't particularly onerous to go through. I don't remember it being particularly trying.
Bear in mind, this is coming from someone who used to swear up and down she needed to carry food with her in case she got hungry because she'd feel ill if she didn't eat and it was all so unbearable. Sugar made me crash, the whole nine yards.
I overconsumed the stuff. I overconsumed everything and overwhelmed my body. Eating proper portions of foods? My body quickly learned better.
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