Pre-Post Workout Suppliments

9chimera11

I'm in the process of reducing body fat [at 37.4% right now :grumble: ]. My workout incorporate cardio and weight training [some serious lifting].

Is it necessary for me to have pre-post workout meals with whey protein? Please help as I'm clueless about this area...

grandevampire

I'm in the process of reducing body fat [at 37.4% right now :grumble: ]. My workout incorporate cardio and weight training [some serious lifting].

Is it necessary for me to have pre-post workout meals with whey protein? Please help as I'm clueless about this area...

It depends on whether or not you are getting enough protein in your diet otherwise (1g/lb of body weight is an oft used estimate). As I don't eat a lot of red meat, protein supplements (whey and hemp) is the way I get my protein in while staying within my calorie goals.

Other than that, there is much debate about nutrition timing and all that, so various people will say various things about whether immediately pre-/post- is an issue or not.

As I work out first thing, I have my pre-workout whey with water (and some flax seed for fibre) right before to get me through my workout, then eat my full breakfast after.

Those who believe in immediate (within 30 mins, 60 mins, 90 mins, etc) post-workout recovery usually say that a 4:1 or 3:1 simple carb to protein ratio is best for replenishing glycogen and processing the protein.

grandevampire

I'm in the process of reducing body fat [at 37.4% right now :grumble: ]. My workout incorporate cardio and weight training [some serious lifting].

Is it necessary for me to have pre-post workout meals with whey protein? Please help as I'm clueless about this area...

It depends on whether or not you are getting enough protein in your diet otherwise (1g/lb of body weight is an oft used estimate). As I don't eat a lot of red meat, protein supplements (whey and hemp) is the way I get my protein in while staying within my calorie goals.

Other than that, there is much debate about nutrition timing and all that, so various people will say various things about whether immediately pre-/post- is an issue or not.

As I work out first thing, I have my pre-workout whey with water (and some flax seed for fibre) right before to get me through my workout, then eat my full breakfast after.

Those who believe in immediate (within 30 mins, 60 mins, 90 mins, etc) post-workout recovery usually say that a 4:1 or 3:1 simple carb to protein ratio is best for replenishing glycogen and processing the protein.

Having said all that, I would have to say based on observation that generally getting enough protein daily HAS been a difference maker for me. In the past, while eating the typical North American diet and not making any effort to get more protein (so I was probably only getting tops 50-70g/day), I have gone through some phases of trying to get into better shape and never saw as much change in my body as combining sufficient protein in my diet with regular resistance training ("Oh, hello triceps, nice to meet you both.").

9chimera11

Thanks I also don't eat much red meat. My main sources of protein are eggs, oatmeal and chicken. As I'm sticking to 1200 calorie diet I may not be having enough protein.

My main worry is that no matter how heavy I lift, my BF doesn't go down.:explode: I have begun to wonder whether I'm losing muscle in place of BF and maybe in need of more protein.

May be I should give whey a go and see

grandevampire

Thanks I also don't eat much red meat. My main sources of protein are eggs, oatmeal and chicken. As I'm sticking to 1200 calorie diet I may not be having enough protein.

My main worry is that no matter how heavy I lift, my BF doesn't go down.:explode: I have begun to wonder whether I'm losing muscle in place of BF and maybe in need of more protein.

May be I should give whey a go and see

I noticed that in your diary, you have a lot of "Quick add" calories, which will not give you any insight into your macronutrient intake for the day. I set my carb/protein/fat ratios to 40/30/30, and I really do watch that protein number as the day goes on to decide what I will eat for my next meal (it's really not much work once you get an idea of what foods will provide more of which macronutrient!). Once I hit my minimum of 100g of protein, I then shoot for my 35-40g of fibre, and don't care much where the rest of the chips fall.

Listen, if you are over 5' tall and want to be doing serious lifting and daily training, you will be hard pressed to have enough energy at 1200 calories, ESPECIALLY if you want to build muscle (to burn fat faster). Less fat + more muscle = higher metabolism (a really really good thing!) = need enough food for fuel + protein to repair and grow your muscles. If you stay at 1200 calories, I suspect you will be hindering your potential to do more at the gym in order to change your body faster. From experience, it's a cycle where you can lead the change by pouring some more oil on the fire to start. The rest of the upward spiral follows.

Personally, eating less (first 1200 calories, then 1400 calories, and then 1600...I now eat 1800 - 1950 total), I could totally feel like I wasn't tired or hungry all day, but looking back, I know that my brain was VERY quick and efficient to respond by toning down my daily activities for optimal economy of motion/thought. I didn't have the activation energy ready to get up and go anytime, all day long. Eating a bit more, I am way more bouncy (ok, almost hyper), and I know I train way harder, retain more muscle, and proportionally burn way more calories as a result.

I think that proves, at least in my case, that my body did adjust its function hugely within the parameters I set for it, as oddly, eating 750 more calories each and everyday over weeks and weeks, I didn't gain a single pound but still lost a whole bunch of fat.

ETA: I say all this because I know many people are fine with eating 1200 calories and losing scale weight regardless of ratio of fat lost to muscle lost/metabolism, but you have specifically highlighted your goal of improving fat loss, and based on your exercise regime, you do care about your overall fitness and being stronger!

grandevampire

Thanks I also don't eat much red meat. My main sources of protein are eggs, oatmeal and chicken. As I'm sticking to 1200 calorie diet I may not be having enough protein.

My main worry is that no matter how heavy I lift, my BF doesn't go down.:explode: I have begun to wonder whether I'm losing muscle in place of BF and maybe in need of more protein.

May be I should give whey a go and see

Also, unfortunately, I wouldn't exactly call oatmeal a key source of protein. I use it as a source of carbohydrates (a great source at that!). So if you are hoping to get enough protein from oatmeal, you would have to eat only that all day (and even then you would be at like 3000+ calories)! Eggs are good, chicken is good, do you eat tuna? I eat a lot of tuna/cod. Lentils are high in protein...tofu...

9chimera11

Unfortunately I am allergic to Tuna. So whenever I eat fish I end up eating salmon or thilapia. You are right. I really need to measure and up my food intake... my brain just refusing to accept the logic

I've done the quick add because for most of the food I eat, [which are Sri Lankan\ the calories are not counted. So I'm roughly estimating what it might be and added.

kklotay

Unfortunately I am allergic to Tuna. So whenever I eat fish I end up eating salmon or thilapia. You are right. I really need to measure and up my food intake... my brain just refusing to accept the logic

I've done the quick add because for most of the food I eat, [which are Sri Lankan\ the calories are not counted. So I'm roughly estimating what it might be and added.

If you search, you will be surprised to find so many south asian foods on MFP. Just try to use the ones with complete nutritional info. If not, you can add a recipe with all the ingredients you use, and you will get more accurate nutritional info. I eat a lot of Indian food. Even though most Indian foods are listed in MFP database, I add my own recipes as my cooking is usually very low fat.

weightloss12345678

Curious about this one

jacksonpt

Lots of good info so far.

The benefits of nutrient timing are insignificant in the face of total caloric intake and macro nutrients. Get those dialed in before you worry about anything else.

jakkisr

Unfortunately I am allergic to Tuna. So whenever I eat fish I end up eating salmon or thilapia. You are right. I really need to measure and up my food intake... my brain just refusing to accept the logic

I've done the quick add because for most of the food I eat, [which are Sri Lankan\ the calories are not counted. So I'm roughly estimating what it might be and added.

You've been given some good advice by grandevampire. You can up your protein by eating more salmon, more chicken, brazil nuts (and other nuts), chickpeas, cottage cheese, eggs.

And all food has calories hunny bun! even Sri Lankan! The food database includes spices, herbs and pretty much anything you can think of. Type in Spices (then the name of the spice or herb) then you'll get the actual item instead of ready meals with them in. Remember to add oil that you cook in - it all adds up. If there is soething you eat that isn't in the database look it up on http://nutritiondata.self.com/ and add the details to MFP yourself.

Once you start logging everything properly you'll get a much more accurate idea of how much you are actually eating.
Get yourself organised, get logging! and Good luck!

SideSteel

Lots of good info so far.

The benefits of nutrient timing are insignificant in the face of total caloric intake and macro nutrients. Get those dialed in before you worry about anything else.

^ This, I'd only add that performance would be a very viable reason to adopt a specific nutrient timing regardless of experience level/etc.

OP: You should really put all your energy into:

a) Are my total calories in check?
b) Am I tracking my intake accurately including using a food scale to measure quantities rather than eyeball?
c) Am I exercising? (Ideally using some mode of resistance training)
d) Are my macronutrients in a reasonable spot for my goals?
e) Can I stay consistent with the above behaviors and maintain this for a while?
.
.
.
.

Nutrient timing and supplementation should rank very, very far down on the above list.

9chimera11

Thank you very much for all the info you guys.... So I'm gonna get a kitchen scale, and some whey protein and try to drill the math involved in measuring food :happy:

OK I'm going to hit the gym... Very hyped up after all this support... [Had an especially bad day yesterday...but hey... a lifter has to be strong right?]

Thanks again and good luck with your goals all

traumaticthrash

ensure you are in line with your daily calorie intake, train hard and be discipline
I dont take any supplements, protein shakes are not essential.

grandevampire

Unfortunately I am allergic to Tuna. So whenever I eat fish I end up eating salmon or thilapia. You are right. I really need to measure and up my food intake... my brain just refusing to accept the logic

I've done the quick add because for most of the food I eat, [which are Sri Lankan\ the calories are not counted. So I'm roughly estimating what it might be and added.

If you search, you will be surprised to find so many south asian foods on MFP. Just try to use the ones with complete nutritional info. If not, you can add a recipe with all the ingredients you use, and you will get more accurate nutritional info. I eat a lot of Indian food. Even though most Indian foods are listed in MFP database, I add my own recipes as my cooking is usually very low fat.

Other fishes are good too, salmon has those so-called "good fats" (which you need as well, it's not a 100% protein game, it's a balance game. ). If you can get your hands on turkey, it's also a great protein source.

In terms of difficulty logging complex dishes (with unknown quantities of ingredients), I can't lie and say that starting to pay attention to what I eat and log it was a no extra effort process. I have essentially changed my habits surrounding food 180° since starting to take in interest in my health and fitness. Though I never had a weight issue, I used to mostly eat out and never pay attention to nutrition. Now that I want to know what I am taking in and whether it is meeting my needs and helping my goals of improving, I wind up preparing what I eat myself 95% of the time. It's actually just easier that way instead of ballpark guessing 3 times a day what I ate in such or such dish that I didn't make myself. If I made it myself, I can weigh the component raw ingredients no matter what form it ends up in at the end. For convenience, I eat very very simply now (but I oddly also enjoy the taste of food more? Go figure. Guess my taste buds aren't nuked anymore by artificial flavourings.) This approach of completely reappropriating your food preparation isn't for everyone, obviously, as if you feel like you're actually missing out hugely on foodly offerings you currently love but cannot make from scratch yourself, you're less likely to succeed due to the sense of deprivation.

9chimera11

I hear ya... I used to hate cooking because I'm bad at it. But now, I forced myself to figure out some recipes I can deal with [such as oatmeal pancakes] and stick to them... Surprisingly, [ok maybe not that surprisingly] staying away from oily asian food has made me feel less bloated and I actually feel that my blood is cleaner ... if that makes any sense...

and totally agreed about food tasting better... last week I had a piece of chocolate as a small treat which I had after a long time... and that did feel much much better ^_^

9chimera11

ensure you are in line with your daily calorie intake, train hard and be discipline
I dont take any supplements, protein shakes are not essential.

true that.... it took me years to come to this stage... I was thinking of supplementing because I'm having a suspicion that even though I do a good workout and keep the calorie intake around 1200, I'm losing muscle more than fat...

grandevampire

ensure you are in line with your daily calorie intake, train hard and be discipline
I dont take any supplements, protein shakes are not essential.

true that.... it took me years to come to this stage... I was thinking of supplementing because I'm having a suspicion that even though I do a good workout and keep the calorie intake around 1200, I'm losing muscle more than fat...

For your size, I honestly would try never to let your total calories for the day (regardless of exercise for the day) drop below 1600 calories. 1200 may work to drop weight quicker at a certain stage, but if you think about long-term results, I don't believe your daily muscle maintenance can keep up with that rate. Even if you train (because with those calories, you can't train as hard).

If you still see a good rate of progress, but without the fear or disappointment of losing a lot of lean body mass in the process, I think it you won't be shattered if it takes say 6 months longer to get to you goal weight number (after all, what is 6 months in the grand scheme of things if you are making lasting changes and seeing awesome improvement along the way).

Just my two cents!