Thoughts on IIFYM (If It Fits Your Macros)
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stevencloser wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Nope. Just using him as an example. Could easily be a her. How many active posters here? How many love IIFYM? No shaming, just an observation. lol.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
And/or folks are emphasizing the low quality foods in their posts, and not emphasizing the nutrient dense ones. If it's this, it's problematic from an educational standpoint but nothing more, if it's the former, then it's more problematic.
I think it's the latter, though one of the biggest IIFYM supporters here eats virtually no plant foods (except the occasional potato), as evidenced by his diary.
But yes, micros are essential to health, and we need to be sure we aren't suggesting otherwise (or that protein is the only thing that matters) to new users.
Mmmmm......I would agree nutrition is important, but that does sound like you are trying to shame "him".
Again, I don't have any issue with IIFYM, I simple questioned if folks are considering their micros, other than the simple ones logged here, and suggesting that a dieter who who logs no green vegetables (for example) on an open diary likely isn't seriously considering micros.
When someone does extreme low carb or even the few people that do literal no carb (which someone pointed out actually exist) and barely has any fruits and veggies in their diet, no one seems to question if they can hit their micro nutrients on that and some people even write white knighting posts defending them if someone questions if that kind of diet is alright.
But if someone going by iifym does it it's somehow bad? Or what exactly was your observation supposed to be about?
Wrong, that comes up every single time no carb is brought up, and half the time regular low carb is brought up. Right along with OMFG you'll die if you don't eat carbs, or your kidneys will fail, or CICO will magically disappear and you'll gain all the weight back if you ever eat carbs again. As it is, LC/keto/NC are all just variations of IIFYM anyway, just a different proportion of macros that need fitting. Ironically, some of the loudest LC detractors are IIFYM proponents.
I can't recall any discussions were some brought up lc being micro nutrient deficient...0 -
Well, you ARE going to gain back water weight once you start eating your usual amount of carbs again.
Anyway, I'm reading or skimming most such topics but I can't say micros are the main focus when people are talking about LC/keto/NC. It's mostly talking about how it's not necessary and not any faster in fat loss than any other.
If iifym is brought up however, oh boy, get ready for the obligatory "Sure you could lose weight only eating burgers and donuts all day, but you won't be healthy!!!".
Maybe I'm just looking more closely at those kinds of posts instead of the others though.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Nope. Just using him as an example. Could easily be a her. How many active posters here? How many love IIFYM? No shaming, just an observation. lol.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
And/or folks are emphasizing the low quality foods in their posts, and not emphasizing the nutrient dense ones. If it's this, it's problematic from an educational standpoint but nothing more, if it's the former, then it's more problematic.
I think it's the latter, though one of the biggest IIFYM supporters here eats virtually no plant foods (except the occasional potato), as evidenced by his diary.
But yes, micros are essential to health, and we need to be sure we aren't suggesting otherwise (or that protein is the only thing that matters) to new users.
Mmmmm......I would agree nutrition is important, but that does sound like you are trying to shame "him".
Again, I don't have any issue with IIFYM, I simple questioned if folks are considering their micros, other than the simple ones logged here, and suggesting that a dieter who who logs no green vegetables (for example) on an open diary likely isn't seriously considering micros.
When someone does extreme low carb or even the few people that do literal no carb (which someone pointed out actually exist) and barely has any fruits and veggies in their diet, no one seems to question if they can hit their micro nutrients on that and some people even write white knighting posts defending them if someone questions if that kind of diet is alright.
But if someone going by iifym does it it's somehow bad? Or what exactly was your observation supposed to be about?
Wrong, that comes up every single time no carb is brought up, and half the time regular low carb is brought up. Right along with OMFG you'll die if you don't eat carbs, or your kidneys will fail, or CICO will magically disappear and you'll gain all the weight back if you ever eat carbs again. As it is, LC/keto/NC are all just variations of IIFYM anyway, just a different proportion of macros that need fitting. Ironically, some of the loudest LC detractors are IIFYM proponents.
I can't recall any discussions were some brought up lc being micro nutrient deficient...
No carb, and the micro nutrient issue comes up every time someone with no clue what they're talking about assumes LC=no produce.0 -
works for me, down 70 pounds and i destroy a half a large pizza every friday night!0
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galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
yea, but I don't think you would hit your micros...unless said person is taking a multivitamin...
That was my point ;-) I was trying to think up with a meal plan that would hit macros but not micros, because there were people saying it wasn't possible.
My overall message is that if you're following IIFYM, you should be at least somewhat conscious of hitting your micros by eating plenty of nutritious foods along with the pizza, ice cream and pop tarts.0 -
galgenstrick wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
yea, but I don't think you would hit your micros...unless said person is taking a multivitamin...
That was my point ;-) I was trying to think up with a meal plan that would hit macros but not micros, because there were people saying it wasn't possible.
My overall message is that if you're following IIFYM, you should be at least somewhat conscious of hitting your micros by eating plenty of nutritious foods along with the pizza, ice cream and pop tarts.
Yup, most recommend nutrient dense foods and then fill in with treats ...0 -
barbecuesauce wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
I don't see how you can get your macros within your calories and not hit your micros. I just flicked back through my diary and when I was PMSing a few days ago, I didn't hit all of my micros and was way off on my macros and over my calories. Every day that I get my carb/protein targets and eat a reasonable number of calories, I am over on all of my micros. Maybe it's possible to do IIFYM the way you describe, but I don't see how I could do it.
People talk about doing it all the time, inadvertently, where you'll see someone posting how they just had to give in and eat the cupcakes/cookies/birthday cake someone brought in to work, and now they only have X calories left for dinner. While the carbs in those things may quite easily be within their macros, especially if they use a carb-heavy split, it's not likely the frosting had all the nutrients that would've been in the dinner they planned, but they didn't eat.
Just because it's possible to get all micros while eating within macros doesn't mean everyone automatically or intentionally goes out of their way to do it, especially when they don't actually understand what their macros or micros really are to begin with.
This is true, although when people talk about doing that I tend to assume it's a one-time or occasional thing, not how they commonly eat.
I simply couldn't eat lots of low nutrient, calorie dense foods on a low calorie diet and hit my protein macro or, more importantly, stick to the diet or feel good, so I tend to assume it's a self-correcting problem. People will naturally end up gravitating to more nutrient-dense foods.
Or, if they don't, it's because they just really, really are resistant to eating differently for some reason, and that's NOT going to be because they don't know they should, for health reasons. Some people are just convinced they don't like anything but whatever it is they've been eating.0 -
galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
Putting aside potential issues with energy density, there's nothing inherently unhealthy about any of that. Poptarts probably present the least bang for your calorie-buck in terms of micronutrients, but they're not bad or junk, imo. As to the rest, there are nutritious ways to eat all of it. Not all ice cream and pizza are equal. You can get plenty of veggies on pizza, for example.
People just have to know what they're eating. And if we're at least under the pretense of tracking things, we should know what we're eating.
The point is that you can meet your macros and yet never eat fruits or veggies or any carbs other than sugar and refined grains. You also could meet your fat macro with a huge variety of different options, which are not all of equal nutrient quality. You could meet your protein with only protein bars or only bacon and high fat ground beef (well, if your fat macro is high enough) or also get lots of seafood and beans. There's a huge diversity possible, so eating in a healthy manner usually requires thinking about something other than macros.
Of course, my impression is that most people who do IIFYM do think about stuff other than just the macros.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
Putting aside potential issues with energy density, there's nothing inherently unhealthy about any of that. Poptarts probably present the least bang for your calorie-buck in terms of micronutrients, but they're not bad or junk, imo. As to the rest, there are nutritious ways to eat all of it. Not all ice cream and pizza are equal. You can get plenty of veggies on pizza, for example.
People just have to know what they're eating. And if we're at least under the pretense of tracking things, we should know what we're eating.
The point is that you can meet your macros and yet never eat fruits or veggies or any carbs other than sugar and refined grains. You also could meet your fat macro with a huge variety of different options, which are not all of equal nutrient quality. You could meet your protein with only protein bars or only bacon and high fat ground beef (well, if your fat macro is high enough) or also get lots of seafood and beans. There's a huge diversity possible, so eating in a healthy manner usually requires thinking about something other than macros.
Of course, my impression is that most people who do IIFYM do think about stuff other than just the macros.
Never underestimate the power of...
I'll let you fill that one in
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tedboosalis7 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
Actually I do it. I have no idea why it wouldn't work. This post doesn't make sense, sorry. See diary.
Anyone tell you you look like Christopher Meloni?0 -
What you just said makes no sense, not what that person said.tedboosalis7 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
Actually I do it. I have no idea why it wouldn't work. This post doesn't make sense, sorry. See diary.
and you are surprised, why?
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galgenstrick wrote: »sarahlifts wrote: »I follow IIFYM my diary is open to friends. Friend me. IIFYM cannot be worked effectively hitting macros and cals on a junk diet. PERIOD. If someone is doing it show me. You just cannot. Its sad so many people view IIFYM this way.
Why not? You could probably hit your macros pretty easily eating pizza, pop tarts, ice cream and a few glasses of muscle milk. Not sure if anyone does that, but people might??
yea, but I don't think you would hit your micros...unless said person is taking a multivitamin...
I logged a full day at Micky Dee's to see if I could hit my macros and stay in maintenance...
Breakfast lunch dinner and a snack no salads and yah you can hit your macros...I didn't check micros...hmmm might have to do an experiment.0 -
Actually, if someone claims that they hit their macros and micros on an extreme low carb diet with no plant food at all? Yes, I'd mention it.stevencloser wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Nope. Just using him as an example. Could easily be a her. How many active posters here? How many love IIFYM? No shaming, just an observation. lol.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »galgenstrick wrote: »My gripe with IIFYM is a lot of people completely disregard their micros and therefor their health. If you do it in such a way where you eat the majority of your foods from nutrient dense sources, and fit in the things you like in small amounts, then that's probably a great and sustainable plan for most people.
People who do that aren't really doing IIFYM. It's pretty hard to hit your macros without also hitting your micros, and most people here stress that micros are part of it. IIFYM doesn't translate to 'just eat pizza/twinkies/ice cream so long as you stick to your calories'.
#TeamModeration
And/or folks are emphasizing the low quality foods in their posts, and not emphasizing the nutrient dense ones. If it's this, it's problematic from an educational standpoint but nothing more, if it's the former, then it's more problematic.
I think it's the latter, though one of the biggest IIFYM supporters here eats virtually no plant foods (except the occasional potato), as evidenced by his diary.
But yes, micros are essential to health, and we need to be sure we aren't suggesting otherwise (or that protein is the only thing that matters) to new users.
Mmmmm......I would agree nutrition is important, but that does sound like you are trying to shame "him".
Again, I don't have any issue with IIFYM, I simple questioned if folks are considering their micros, other than the simple ones logged here, and suggesting that a dieter who who logs no green vegetables (for example) on an open diary likely isn't seriously considering micros.
When someone does extreme low carb or even the few people that do literal no carb (which someone pointed out actually exist) and barely has any fruits and veggies in their diet, no one seems to question if they can hit their micro nutrients on that and some people even write white knighting posts defending them if someone questions if that kind of diet is alright.
But if someone going by iifym does it it's somehow bad? Or what exactly was your observation supposed to be about?
I haven't seen too many "no carbers" claim that they hit all their micros, or even the little list on MFP.0 -
I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
I do know liver is really high in certain vitamins...A and B for sure. I think a bunch of others as well. Not sure about the other organs.
Hmmm...now I want some pate.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »I did mention micros to someone else (not you two ladies) regarding no carb, and the reply I got was that offal had vitamins.
I just didn't know what to say to that.
My memory's shot, I don't even remember the context of the conversation at this point.
I'm not curious to see the nutrients of offal. Off to google.
I do know liver is really high in certain vitamins...A and B for sure. I think a bunch of others as well. Not sure about the other organs.
Hmmm...now I want some pate.
I looked. Definitely pretty nutritious. I've had liver once I think...Never had any other organ meats that I know of.0 -
Back on micro tracking, FWIW I track on nutritiondata.com. For the person interested in watching vitamin D intake, there is almost none in food, but a lot that the skin synthesizes in sunshine, so no tracker will be particularly helpful with vitamin D. I keep an eye on w-3/w-6 ratio, fiber, calcium & magnesium. If I'm out of whack on the first two, I might adjust my plan for the day. Or I might let it average out over the week. If I'm low on the last two, I might take a supplement. I too am skeptical about absorption, and not just for supplements. Whole foods can have different absorption properties depending on what else is consumed, but I don't worry or try to compensate for it. For that matter, spinach grown in one place may have more magnesium than spinach grown someplace else. It's all estimates.0
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