Do I need more protein?

mom2ava07

You are spot on about the mental adjustment from dieting to maintaining. It is a struggle for me, but a work in progress.

I'm fearful of totally falling back into my bad habits, although I'm confident I will never go back to eating the old way now that I see what a pig I was!

I haven't had a single "cheat" day since I started in January, and by cheat I mean just allowing myself to go over my calories including exercise calories. For example, I've been wanting a small milkshake for months..just one. But once I saw it was 520 calories I said no way, as if one day will make me fat, but I digress. Like I said earlier, maintenance for me seems harder than losing.

glassyo

mom2ava07 wrote: »

glassyo wrote: »

*peeks in to point out you're not trying to maintain if you know you're still losing and not eating any exercise calories back*

Technically I am trying to maintain in theory, but what happens is I eat well within my standard caloric range and I will fluctuate up 3 pounds in a week for no apparent reason (and I eat the same stuff almost daily and it won't be time of the month) and then I will fluctuate down and lose what I gained and then some without trying. Whenever I eat any of my exercise calories, and I'm talking 100 or less, I tend to lose. It's odd.

*sigh* trying to maintain is harder than losing in my opinion

Ooooo ok because you said you weren't eating back your fitbit exercise calories and that was a big "duh, that's why you're still losing weight!" red flag to me.

sixxpoint

mwyvr wrote: »

Might be worth reading this piece as it cites numerous studies rather than offering opinion:

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

• There is normally no advantage to consuming more than 0.82g/lb (1.8g/kg) of protein per day to preserve or build muscle. This already includes a very safe mark-up. There hasn’t been any recorded advantage of consuming more than 0.64g/lb. The only exceptions to this rule could be individuals with extraordinarily high anabolic hormone levels.
• Optimal protein intake decreases with training age, because your body becomes more efficient at preventing protein breakdown resulting from training and less protein is needed for the increasingly smaller amount of muscle that is built after each training session. The magnitude of this effect is unclear.

Do the study results apply to you, the OP or anyone else? It would seem so. Most of the studies followed elite body builders, and the findings were further confirmed by other studies on endurance althletes.

If you still think you need more than 0.82g/lb because you think you train harder than these test subjects, think again. Lemon et al. (1992) studied bodybuilders training 1.5h per day, 6 days per week and still concluded 0.75g/lb is the highest intake at which body composition benefits could occur.

And...

A perhaps even more telling study is by Pikosky et al. in 2008. The researchers took a group of endurance trained subjects and had them consume either 0.41 or 0.82 g/lb of protein per day. They also added a thousand calories worth of training on top of their regular exercise. So these guys were literally running on a 1000 calorie deficit while drastically increasing their training volume. Talk about a catabolic state… Of course the nitrogen balance in the low protein group plummeted. However, the protein intake of 0.82 g/lb in the other group completely protected the subjects from muscle loss. Nitrogen balance, whole-body protein turnover and protein synthesis remained unchanged.

Most folks on MFP probably have their protein goals set too high. Will it harm you? Nope, and often it is tasty.

The proper protein range is 0.60-0.80 grams per 1 lb. bodyweight. This is the result synopsis of multiple studies done on the topic for many decades to present date. Staying within this range is scientifically sound, depending on your weight, goals, body composition, etc.

One of the more thorough studies done in 2011, referenced below, showed that after 1.8 g/kg of body there is no evidence of an increased muscle protein synthesis. Eating more than that is unnecessary and will not promote further muscle protein synthesis.


Example of the upper end of protein requirements for a fit, athletic male:

200 lb. person... 1.8 g/kg total bodyweight = 163 grams protein per day
200 lb. person... 0.8 g/lb total bodyweight = 160 grams protein per day

^Roughly the same figure.

To learn more, please review the following:

Tarnopolsky et al. (1992) observed no differences in whole body protein synthesis or indexes of lean body mass in strength athletes consuming either 0.64g/lb or 1.10g/lb over a 2 week period. Protein oxidation did increase in the high protein group, indicating a nutrient overload.

Walberg et al. (1988) found that 0.73g/lb was sufficient to maintain positive nitrogen balance in cutting weightlifters over a 7 day time period.

Tarnopolsky et al. (1988) found that only 0.37g/lb was required to maintain positive nitrogen balance in elite bodybuilders (over 5 years of experience, possible previous use of androgens) over a 10 day period. 0.45g/lb was sufficient to maintain lean body mass in bodybuilders over a 2 week period. The authors suggested that 0.55g/lb was sufficient for bodybuilders.

Lemon et al. (1992) found no differences in muscle mass or strength gains in novice bodybuilders consuming either 0.61g/lb or 1.19g/lb over a 4 week period. Based on nitrogen balance data, the authors recommended 0.75g/lb.

Hoffman et al. (2006) found no differences in body composition, strength or resting hormonal concentrations in strength athletes consuming either 0.77g/lb or >0.91g/lb over a 3 month period.


Also see:

Effect of protein intake on strength, body composition and endocrine changes in strength/power athletes. Hoffman JR, Ratamess NA, Kang J, Falvo MJ, Faigenbaum AD. J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2006 Dec 13;3:12-8.

Macronutrient content of a hypoenergy diet affects nitrogen retention and muscle function in weight lifters. Walberg JL, Leidy MK, Sturgill DJ, Hinkle DE, Ritchey SJ, Sebolt DR. Int J Sports Med. 1988 Aug;9(4):261-6.

Protein requirements and muscle mass/strength changes during intensive training in novice bodybuilders. Lemon PW, Tarnopolsky MA, MacDougall JD, Atkinson SA. J Appl Physiol. 1992 Aug;73(2):767-75.

Influence of protein intake and training status on nitrogen balance and lean body mass. Tarnopolsky MA, MacDougall JD, Atkinson SA. J Appl Physiol. 1988 Jan;64(1):187-93.

Dietary protein for athletes: From requirements to optimum adaptation. Phillips SM, Van Loon LJ. J Sports Sci. 2011;29 Suppl 1:S29-38.

Protein and amino acid metabolism during and after exercise and the effects of nutrition. Rennie MJ, Tipton KD. Annu Rev Nutr. 2000;20:457-83.

Hartman, J. W., Moore, D. R., & Phillips, S. M. (2006). Resistance training reduces whole-body protein turnover and improves net protein retention in untrained young males. Applied Physiology, Nutrition and Metabolism, 31, 557–564.

Moore, D. R., Del Bel, N. C., Nizi, K. I., Hartman, J. W., Tang, J. E., Armstrong, D. et al. (2007). Resistance training reduces fasted- and fed-state leucine turnover and increases dietary nitrogen retention in previously untrained young men. Journal of Nutrition, 137, 985–991.

Effects of exercise on dietary protein requirements. Lemon PW. Int J Sport Nutr. 1998 Dec;8(4):426-47.

Effects of high-calorie supplements on body composition and muscular strength following resistance training. Rozenek R, Ward P, Long S, Garhammer J. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2002 Sep;42(3):340-7.

Increased protein maintains nitrogen balance during exercise-induced energy deficit. Pikosky MA, Smith TJ, Grediagin A, Castaneda-Sceppa C, Byerley L, Glickman EL, Young AJ. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2008 Mar;40(3):505-12.

Dietary carbohydrate-to-fat ratio: influence on whole-body nitrogen retention, substrate utilization, and hormone response in healthy male subjects. McCargar LJ, Clandinin MT, Belcastro AN, Walker K. Am J Clin Nutr. 1989 Jun;49(6):1169-78.

Macronutrient Intakes as Determinants of Dietary Protein and Amino Acid Adequacy. Millward, DJ. J. Nutr. June 1, 2004 vol. 134 no. 6 1588S-1596S.

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editorgrrl

mom2ava07 wrote: »

I always eat about 1650 calories (maintenance for me at sedentary setting) but my fitbit hr always adds in 300-600 calories per day from my general activity (I'm probably not really sedentary) and I never eat them back.

I lost the weight & have maintained since July by trusting my Fitbit. TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is by definition the number of calories at which your weight will maintain. So my Fitbit burn = TDEE.

Connect your accounts at http://www.myfitnesspal.com/fitbit

Enable negative calorie adjustments: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings

Set your goal to maintenance: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/change_goals_guided

Ignore Fitbit's calorie goal & follow MFP's, eating back your adjustments. If you don't like getting 300–600-calorie adjustments, then increase your activity level. You'll start with more calories but get smaller adjustments. Either way, you'll be eating TDEE.

You can learn more in the Fitbit Users group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1290-fitbit-users

marky1965

mom2ava07 wrote: »

cathipa wrote: »

Unless you are a bodybuilder you don't need 1g protein per body weight. Should be for lean body mass. Try 0.8g/lb.

Well I'm definitley not that :-)

Sounds like I'm still not getting nearly enough, and at 127 lbs I should shoot for around 100 grams per day. I've just known way too many people drinking protein shakes all the time as if they were a bodybuilder and then they get fat.

Another urban myth......... It's not the protein shakes making people fat at 130 cals per shake!

mom2ava07

editorgrrl wrote: »

mom2ava07 wrote: »

I always eat about 1650 calories (maintenance for me at sedentary setting) but my fitbit hr always adds in 300-600 calories per day from my general activity (I'm probably not really sedentary) and I never eat them back.

I lost the weight & have maintained since July by trusting my Fitbit. TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is by definition the number of calories at which your weight will maintain. So my Fitbit burn = TDEE.

Connect your accounts at http://www.myfitnesspal.com/fitbit

Enable negative calorie adjustments: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings

Set your goal to maintenance: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/change_goals_guided

Ignore Fitbit's calorie goal & follow MFP's, eating back your adjustments. If you don't like getting 300–600-calorie adjustments, then increase your activity level. You'll start with more calories but get smaller adjustments. Either way, you'll be eating TDEE.

You can learn more in the Fitbit Users group: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1290-fitbit-users

I have all of my accounts synced. So, basically you are saying I need to get over it, take a leap of faith, and just trust the Fitbit calories adjustments? I have negative adjustments allowed.

Right now for example, I'm at the end of the day and counting fitbit calories I have enough leftover for a serving of peanut butter which would help my protein deficit, but I'm still not in total trust mode of the fitbit despite havi ng it 3 months. I've just got issues lol

editorgrrl

mom2ava07 wrote: »

So, basically you are saying I need to get over it, take a leap of faith, and just trust the Fitbit calories adjustments? I have negative adjustments allowed.

Right now for example, I'm at the end of the day and counting fitbit calories I have enough leftover for a serving of peanut butter which would help my protein deficit, but I'm still not in total trust mode of the fitbit despite having it 3 months. I've just got issues lol

Look at your MFP nutrition for the past 7 days, not just today. (It's easier to see in the app.) Think bigger picture.

Food is fuel, and we should all be looking for the maximum number of calories at which we lose weight or maintain—never the minimum. Trust your Fitbit for several weeks, then reevaluate your progress.

I was shocked how many calories Fitbit said I could eat. But I've maintained since July.

_benjammin

sixxpoint wrote: »

_benjammin wrote: »

OP: Make your goal ~100 grams of protein, fat and carbs can be adjusted to your personal preference but you should get a minimum of ~35 grams of fat.

Blanket recommendations for protein and fat don't help either, unfortunately. And unless you were 90 lbs. or less, 35 grams of daily dietary fat is far too low for optimal health. Unless you're obese, the bare minimum is 0.40-0.45 grams dietary fat per 1 lb. bodyweight.

I didn't give a blanket recommendation. Her weight, 127lb x 0.8 = 101.6. Your blanket recommendation of 0.4-0.45 grams fat per lb is by no means a bare minimum for being healthy.

sixxpoint

_benjammin wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

_benjammin wrote: »

OP: Make your goal ~100 grams of protein, fat and carbs can be adjusted to your personal preference but you should get a minimum of ~35 grams of fat.

Blanket recommendations for protein and fat don't help either, unfortunately. And unless you were 90 lbs. or less, 35 grams of daily dietary fat is far too low for optimal health. Unless you're obese, the bare minimum is 0.40-0.45 grams dietary fat per 1 lb. bodyweight.

I didn't give a blanket recommendation. Her weight, 127lb x 0.8 = 101.6. Your blanket recommendation of 0.4-0.45 grams fat per lb is by no means a bare minimum for being healthy.

I'm not sure if you understand what a blanket recommendation is. Your advice which was to basically, 'Eat 100 grams of protein per day', is a blanket recommendation. What I did was provide a safe and healthy range, which is sufficient enough to support muscle synthesis and confirmed by science. You just blurted out 100 g protein.

Also, 35 grams of dietary fat was your recommendation. 0.40-0.45 grams dietary fat per lb. bodyweight was my recommendation... Which is just about the bare minimum from a health standpoint, and much higher than 35 grams for her when you do the math.

miriamtob

http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/a-beginners-guide-to-protein/
According to the blog: Divide your weight in lbs by 2.2 (gives you your weight in kg), multiply it by .8 to get the minimum amount to retain muscle mass.

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miriamtob

^ yup, I know. It is times 1 for highly active people. I think the most accurate would be to go by lean body mass, anyway.