Barbell question: Can I teach myself the power clean without a trainer? --also Kettlebell
awnurmarc
Posts: 125 Member
What do you think? I've taught myself pretty much everything I do with a barbell from youtube. But the olympic lifts seem like they are in a different class. Does anyone have any experience doing this? (Also, what can I do without bumper plates?)
And I'll add kettlebell to the question because I have similar fears about trying to do it from youtube videos. Has anyone taught themselves the kettlebell and avoided injury, etc?
Thanks for any input you have.
And I'll add kettlebell to the question because I have similar fears about trying to do it from youtube videos. Has anyone taught themselves the kettlebell and avoided injury, etc?
Thanks for any input you have.
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Replies
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Sure, you can do it, but I'd advise you to start light and make certain your form is good. I taught myself to clean. I've never attempted the snatch, because that one seems dangerous to do without some level of guidance.0
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Um. You can watch a whole bunch of youtube videos. But, in my experience, there comes a point in the Olympic lifts where somebody has to watch you and give you a critique. In the clean, for instance, you can take a fairly light weight and throw it up to your shoulders without much trouble. But when you do a heavy clean, you don't want to biceps-curl it up, and there is a hip thrust involved, etc., etc. It can be difficult to see and to know on your own that you are doing/not doing those things. It takes someone with an experienced eye to tell you.
Bumper plates are pretty important. If you drop a bar a bunch of time with metal weights, it is hard on the bar. (and the floor, of course) More importantly, people get hurt often during the part of the movements when they are extending and putting the bar down, but trying to control it somewhat. That is why you often see Olympic weightlifters just dropping the weight they have lifted. Much safer that way.0 -
Don't know if you've seen this video, but Alan Thrall makes really good tutorials.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPsxlNjv7Aw 0 -
thesupremeforce wrote: »Sure, you can do it, but I'd advise you to start light and make certain your form is good. I taught myself to clean. I've never attempted the snatch, because that one seems dangerous to do without some level of guidance.
Same here.
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I'm teaching myself kettlebells at the minute. Got some great advice on here. Am starting with a really low weight and focusing on form for now, then will increase the weight once I'm happy I'm doing the moves correctly. Good luck with it!
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I would video yourself doing it. Even better, post it here for others to critique.
It's a pretty specialized movement (not commonly used outside the gym), so unless you want to compete in it, don't feel pressured to do it. There are plenty of other explosive movements (kettlebell swings, etc).0 -
I taught myself kettlebells from videos - specifically one by Sarah Lurie - her technique and explanations are very good.... I did start with light kettlebells - 10 and 15 lbs, and worked my way up from there.... Not sure about the power clean though....0
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With the power clean, use a broom stick until you get technique right and then progress slowly. Don't load the bar up just go slow.
Kettle bells are great self teach, look up Mike Mahler or Pavel ??? (The Russian guy) they have some great tips0 -
On the bumper plate issue, I was thinking of staying within a squat cage and doing a "hang clean." So I wouldn't risk dropping the barbell too much distance...0
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It's one thing to watch and study a video. It's another to actually perform it correctly since you can't really see yourself actually doing the movement at every angle (unless you video yourself).
I see people squatting who believe they are doing it "correctly" all the time, but things like heels raising off the floor, pushing more off their toes than their heels, slight rounding of the back on ascension, rising with back first instead of hips, etc. are always small things that the person does without noticing.
Can you learn? Sure. But it doesn't hurt to get advice on your form from someone who is well versed on the lift.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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What do you want to achieve?
To learn to do it safely, and as an accessory, sure. If you want to compete, or you love perfection, get a coach. Also without a coach will be slower, that may or may not bother you.
I would say bumpers are pretty essential, in case you need to bail. dropping onto a rack is a good way to bend a bar and get attacked by a gym owner!
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So, in the absence of a gym with bumper plates, it sounds like I need to put this off until I can get a bar and bumper plates in my garage or basement...0
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A power clean is a combination deadlift, upright row and front squat. You can break the movement into its individual components and get the same benefits without a coach. The only reason to learn the olympic lifts is if you want to compete in meets. If you're going to do the oly lifts you should definitely get a coach.0
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DevilsFan1 wrote: »A power clean is a combination deadlift, upright row and front squat. You can break the movement into its individual components and get the same benefits without a coach. The only reason to learn the olympic lifts is if you want to compete in meets. If you're going to do the oly lifts you should definitely get a coach.
This is a good point and a valid way to look at it. It's why I'd do snatch grip deadlifts instead of attempting an actual snatch.
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I taught myself the power clean using Rippetoe’s book and the bodybuilding exercise tutorial and video. I started light (55lbs) and I’m only starting to add weight now, after a few weeks of practice.
I don’t agree with @DevilsFan1 (sorry!) that you should only learn olympic lifts if you want to compete in meets. They’re fun and awesome. You just have to be careful with your form. Having someone check it is always a good idea.
Edit: I see you want to do this in a home gym. I’d definitely advise caution in that case, because having a lifting platform and proper plates does really help.0 -
I taught myself the power clean using Rippetoe’s book and the bodybuilding exercise tutorial and video. I started light (55lbs) and I’m only starting to add weight now, after a few weeks of practice.
I don’t agree with @DevilsFan1 (sorry!) that you should only learn olympic lifts if you want to compete in meets. They’re fun and awesome. You just have to be careful with your form. Having someone check it is always a good idea.
OK, I agree. They are fun when done correctly; however, they are specialized, highly technical movements that are specifically used for competition. No one should be teaching themselves to do them. It's way too easy to injure yourself if you don't know what you're doing.0 -
It’s easy to injure yourself doing just about any compound lift though. I didn’t realize they were supposed to be exclusively competition material.
I do value form more than anything though, and do see where you’re coming from. I’ve seen people with some atrocious squat/deadlift form at the gym, and I need to bite my tongue to keep that thought to myself.0 -
DevilsFan1 wrote: »A power clean is a combination deadlift, upright row and front squat. You can break the movement into its individual components and get the same benefits without a coach. The only reason to learn the olympic lifts is if you want to compete in meets. If you're going to do the oly lifts you should definitely get a coach.
Respectfully disagree on all fronts.
A clean is nothing like a deadlift or an upright row, if you're doing it like that, it's not a "proper" clean. By definition, a clean is barbell from floor to shoulders in 1 move, so technically, if you do that smooth enough it is one, but its definitely not the most efficient way to move the weight and will lose out on the explosive aspect of the lift.
That's not the only reason to learn the lift, other valid reasons are - for fun, to learn to be more explosive, to develop power, for crossfit WODs or even just to look like a badass (if that's your thing). Although maybe you will be tempted to compete, if you get bitten by the bug.
FInally, the injury rate isn't really any worse than any other compound lift, as long as you are sensible. If you go for a 2x bodyweight clean on your very first attempt, you're asking for trouble. If you're sensible and start with an empty bar, or even a womens (15kg) or technique (5kg) bar, you'll most likely be just fine.
I agree a coach helps a lot (see previous post), but is not absolutely necessary, and especially if you have no plans to compete in any way.0 -
DevilsFan1 wrote: »A power clean is a combination deadlift, upright row and front squat. You can break the movement into its individual components and get the same benefits without a coach. The only reason to learn the olympic lifts is if you want to compete in meets. If you're going to do the oly lifts you should definitely get a coach.
Respectfully disagree on all fronts.
A clean is nothing like a deadlift or an upright row, if you're doing it like that, it's not a "proper" clean. By definition, a clean is barbell from floor to shoulders in 1 move, so technically, if you do that smooth enough it is one, but its definitely not the most efficient way to move the weight and will lose out on the explosive aspect of the lift.
That's not the only reason to learn the lift, other valid reasons are - for fun, to learn to be more explosive, to develop power, for crossfit WODs or even just to look like a badass (if that's your thing). Although maybe you will be tempted to compete, if you get bitten by the bug.
FInally, the injury rate isn't really any worse than any other compound lift, as long as you are sensible. If you go for a 2x bodyweight clean on your very first attempt, you're asking for trouble. If you're sensible and start with an empty bar, or even a womens (15kg) or technique (5kg) bar, you'll most likely be just fine.
I agree a coach helps a lot (see previous post), but is not absolutely necessary, and especially if you have no plans to compete in any way.
Mhm. I actually distinctly recall reading, in Rippetoe’s Starting Strength, some injury statistics for various sports. The highest rate of injury was for soccer, and the lowest for lifting (if memory serves).0 -
Mhm. I actually distinctly recall reading, in Rippetoe’s Starting Strength, some injury statistics for various sports. The highest rate of injury was for soccer, and the lowest for lifting (if memory serves).
If it's the study I'm thinking of, it was written someone who coached me!
Hamill (1994)?
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Mhm. I actually distinctly recall reading, in Rippetoe’s Starting Strength, some injury statistics for various sports. The highest rate of injury was for soccer, and the lowest for lifting (if memory serves).
If it's the study I'm thinking of, it was written someone who coached me!
Hamill (1994)?
That’s amazing!! You got it! Sounds like you have some amazing experience under your belt!Table 8-2. Injury rates per 100 participation hours in various sports. From Hamill, B. “Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training,” Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 8(1):53-57, 1994.0 -
I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.0 -
Table 8-2. Injury rates per 100 participation hours in various sports. From Hamill, B. “Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training,” Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 8(1):53-57, 1994.
That study looked at adolescents who were supervised, not self-trained people. Plus adults tend to lift way more, which conceivably carries a higher risk. And i doubt the kids were doing power cleans.
Speaking of Rippetoe, he should not have included the power clean in a book called "Starting Strength". It's an advanced, specialized movement. It's not even a strength exercise, it's a power exercise (speed x strength). Lunges would have made much more sense.
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Cherimoose wrote: »That study looked at adolescents who were supervised, not self-trained people. Plus adults tend to lift way more, which conceivably carries a higher risk. And i doubt the kids were doing power cleans.
That's exactly what the kids were doing, as well as power snatches, hang snatches, hang cleans, cleans, snatches, split jerks, power jerks and a whole host of other things.
Source - I was coached the author of the study!
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I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)0 -
I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)
I do like the idea of a secret ceremony hehe.
I genuinely was not aware there was such a strong sentiment that regular folk should stay away from the barbell or at least stick to barbell rows and squats, as anything else is reserved for the upper echelons of Olympians. Barbell training is the best thing that’s ever happened to me fitness-wise, and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold hands.0 -
I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)
I do like the idea of a secret ceremony hehe.
I genuinely was not aware there was such a strong sentiment that regular folk should stay away from the barbell or at least stick to barbell rows and squats, as anything else is reserved for the upper echelons of Olympians. Barbell training is the best thing that’s ever happened to me fitness-wise, and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold hands.
Yes, the common consensus seems to be that any old idiot can learn the powerlifts by themselves. But if you attempt to learn the Oly lifts your spine will shoot out of your a*r*s*e and your eyeballs will melt.
It requires a bit more finesse in terms of timing and technique, but it's mostly just learning how to start well and accelerate through the various positions (i.e don't blow your load on the first pull, etc) in the appropriate fashion.0 -
Well, I can probably start practicing hang cleans in a squat cage with just the bar... My gym just doesn't have bumper plates. And thank you, @emilia777 for articulating what I feel, even without having learned any Olympic lifts yet. The barbell is an amazing piece of technology. It has made me go places in my late forties that exceed anything I was capable of as a teen.0
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I taught myself to clean and snatch. I work out in my garage with no bumper plates. I never go to max, and I don't just drop my weight, but starting out I don't lift crazy heavy (95 Snatch, 110 C&J after about 6 months of doing them). Start with the empty bar until you get the form down. Check out youtube tutorials and some of the other material online (breaking muscle is one of my go to sites). There is lots of good information.
FYI the movements are not just combination deadlift, upright row, front squat. It is a single complex movement that transfers energy from your legs and back to gain momentum and allow your arms to catch the weight in various positions - either overhead for the snatch or on your shoulders for the clean. It requires speed, flexibility, agility, and power to do correctly. You can look at the mentioned exercises as helping increase strength in the same muscle groups you use, but the delivery is quite a bit different. You don't have to compete to use Oly lifts, they are a lot of fun, you feel like a beast when you finally get that weight up, and the power gains are very translatable to other sports.
I support this post 100%.
They're not some magical movements that can only be transmitted from master to student in a secret ceremony. Given time and self-study you can learn the movements on your own.
If you can learn to squat, you can learn to power clean (or clean, or clean & jerk, etc)
I do like the idea of a secret ceremony hehe.
I genuinely was not aware there was such a strong sentiment that regular folk should stay away from the barbell or at least stick to barbell rows and squats, as anything else is reserved for the upper echelons of Olympians. Barbell training is the best thing that’s ever happened to me fitness-wise, and you’ll have to pry it from my dead cold hands.
Yes, the common consensus seems to be that any old idiot can learn the powerlifts by themselves. But if you attempt to learn the Oly lifts your spine will shoot out of your a*r*s*e and your eyeballs will melt.
It requires a bit more finesse in terms of timing and technique, but it's mostly just learning how to start well and accelerate through the various positions (i.e don't blow your load on the first pull, etc) in the appropriate fashion.
I like the way you think. I’ve always put form above all else, so I studied up on it as much as I could, and I made weight progressions very slowly. I definitely think this can be done if you’re smart about it. Checking the ego at the door might be one of the most difficult parts, actually: I’ve seen too many people do half-assed squats at weights that were challenging for them.0
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