Stronglifts 5x5 with Smith machine?
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lemonsnowdrop
Posts: 1,298 Member
Hi all! So I've finally decided to start a heavy lifting program and am very excited, but much to my dismay my small gym only has a Smith machine available for squats and bench press. I know that this takes a huge workload off of what would be done with free weights, so I'm really unsure if how I can do this program, if I can do it at all. I know I certainly can't start with just the bar, as that's practically nothing, but I have no idea what weight to start at or how much to increase per workout.
Thanks in advance for any insight!
Thanks in advance for any insight!
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Replies
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For many women "just" the bar is too much to begin with, assuming this is an olympic standard bar, so not sure I understand that part.
As for how to do the lifts, I would suggest you try dumbbell versions rather than the smith machine. If there are no dumbbells either, then definitely look for a new gym.0 -
Is it a smith machine or a max rack?
Personally, I would use dumbbells over smith machine. The smith machine doesn't really allow for full range of motion so you aren't going to be hitting all the muscles. Which will make if difficult to move to a squat rack or olympic bars if you gym ever upgrades or if you change locations. I find it uncomfortable to use the smith machine.0 -
My opinion is A. Use free weights first, barbell and if can't do barbell, then dumbbells. B. Machines second if option A. is not an option. I have posted simular in other threads and have run into hard-liners who would rather not even workout if had to use the Smith Machine, but muscle activation is muscle activation. Is it the same between the two (free weights and Smith Machine)? Of course not. It it optimal? Of course not. But if it's all you have and you want results in some form or fashion, then it's what you might have to do. I link to a study done between the two and again, while it proves free weights are better and more muscles were utilized with free weights, it still also proves muscles were activated utilizing the Smith Machine as well, just not as optimally as free weights.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20093960
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Weight lifting is weight lifting, in smith machine or not. It's still resistance.
The purpose of using the bar at first it to make sure you got good form and to practice it. Regardless of how much weight you use you should focus on good form. The smith machine will take away some workload, so what will you end up doing? adding more weight, so it doesn't matter.
Form doesn't really transfer over to barbells once you graduate from the smith machine.
I tried doing SL using the smith machine for 6 weeks, then when I moved to a real gym, I had to learn the lifts all over again. Smith machines don't allow for a natural ROM, and don't work muscle stabilizers...so you'll likely end up falling on your *kitten* if you try to barbell squat what you can Smith squat.
Is it better than nothing? Yeah, of course. Is it ideal? Probably not.0 -
Thanks for the tips, all! I've spoken to my gym manager, and he said they're actually in the process of moving in a free weights section, so that pretty much solves my problem.
Another question is this: I was previously working on completing 30 Day shred, and I was wondering if it's safe to do both, or if I should only do one at a time? Thanks!0 -
Someone produced a study that proved that muscles are being activated while using a Smith? Was that ever in question? Did the researchers have an alternate hypothesis that the weights were being moved by mind control? Magic? Supreme Being?0
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Someone produced a study that proved that muscles are being activated while using a Smith? Was that ever in question? Did the researchers have an alternate hypothesis that the weights were being moved by mind control? Magic? Supreme Being?
Amazingly enough, if you were to get some people's opinions on the matter (especially utilizing the Smith Machine which evidently in their minds, causes people to burst into flames) on these forums, their answer would surprise you (well...maybe it would surprise you
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lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Hi all! So I've finally decided to start a heavy lifting program and am very excited, but much to my dismay my small gym only has a Smith machine available for squats and bench press. I know that this takes a huge workload off of what would be done with free weights, so I'm really unsure if how I can do this program, if I can do it at all. I know I certainly can't start with just the bar, as that's practically nothing, but I have no idea what weight to start at or how much to increase per workout.
Thanks in advance for any insight!
if that is all you have then you either need to find new gym or just use the smith machine.
IMO the smith is pretty useless, mainly because it does not work your stabilizer muscles. I also think it gives a false impression of what your true max would be, as I can typically squat more on a smith machine then vs regular barbell back squat. Finally, I don't like how squats feel in a smith as it feels like too much pressure on my knees.
all in all I think you would be better off doing barbell movements….0 -
lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Thanks for the tips, all! I've spoken to my gym manager, and he said they're actually in the process of moving in a free weights section, so that pretty much solves my problem.
Another question is this: I was previously working on completing 30 Day shred, and I was wondering if it's safe to do both, or if I should only do one at a time? Thanks!
by both do you mean strong lifts and 30 day shred on the same day? If yes, the no you should not do them on the same day. Ideally you want to have one, one hundred percent rest day. So you could do 30 day shred on your off lifting days; however, if you are doing strong lifts and 30 day shred six days a week you may burn out pretty quick….
caveat - I am really not familiar with 30 day shred but my understanding is that it is a cardio based program?0 -
Weight lifting is weight lifting, in smith machine or not. It's still resistance.
The purpose of using the bar at first it to make sure you got good form and to practice it. Regardless of how much weight you use you should focus on good form. The smith machine will take away some workload, so what will you end up doing? adding more weight, so it doesn't matter.
lol no …
so are you saying smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?0 -
Weight lifting is weight lifting, in smith machine or not. It's still resistance.
The purpose of using the bar at first it to make sure you got good form and to practice it. Regardless of how much weight you use you should focus on good form. The smith machine will take away some workload, so what will you end up doing? adding more weight, so it doesn't matter.
Form doesn't really transfer over to barbells once you graduate from the smith machine.
I tried doing SL using the smith machine for 6 weeks, then when I moved to a real gym, I had to learn the lifts all over again. Smith machines don't allow for a natural ROM, and don't work muscle stabilizers...so you'll likely end up falling on your *kitten* if you try to barbell squat what you can Smith squat.
Is it better than nothing? Yeah, of course. Is it ideal? Probably not.
Yes, I don't disagree, and I never stated other wise. I was talking about form for all lifts regardless of machine or device used.As I originally said, just using the barbell for 5x5 is to practice good form, this is what i was implying. As I also suggested she'd be lifting more weight on the smith machine because it takes away some workload so she will be able to lift heavier on the smith, this doesn't mean she can lift the same weight using a barbell. But I think it's apparent that we all agree to use it if she has no other option.
you said weight lifting = weight lifting even if it is in a smith machine.
What others are saying is that is not correct as the smith does not give you same ROM or work stabilizer muscles.
but since you are never wrong, please continue telling us how that is not what you said.0 -
you're better off doing dumbbell variations. pretty much everyone I've ever seen using a smith machine end up with crappy form when they move on to actual squats.
The smith machine has it's uses but actual squats isn't one of them. It works really well though if you want to isolate certain muscles.0 -
Weight lifting is weight lifting, in smith machine or not. It's still resistance.
The purpose of using the bar at first it to make sure you got good form and to practice it. Regardless of how much weight you use you should focus on good form. The smith machine will take away some workload, so what will you end up doing? adding more weight, so it doesn't matter.
lol no …
so are you saying smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?
I am saying, if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress...
that was not my question.
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I was going to do SL three days a week MWF, have T TH off and do 30DS Saturday and Sunday. 30DS incorporates cardio, body weight and small hand weights.0
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lemonsnowdrop wrote: »I was going to do SL three days a week MWF, have T TH off and do 30DS Saturday and Sunday. 30DS incorporates cardio, body weight and small hand weights.
that sounds like a reasonable plan. If you start to feel burned out and your lifts suffer then you may want to back off the 30 DS...0 -
Weight lifting is weight lifting, in smith machine or not. It's still resistance.
The purpose of using the bar at first it to make sure you got good form and to practice it. Regardless of how much weight you use you should focus on good form. The smith machine will take away some workload, so what will you end up doing? adding more weight, so it doesn't matter.
lol no …
so are you saying smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?
I am saying, if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress...
that was not my question.
I'll Answer your question very clearly, "I am saying, if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress..." lol
Does, "if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress... " = "smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?" ?
still does not answer my question…
is smith machine squat = to barbell squat?
it really only requires a yes or no response….0 -
Weight lifting is weight lifting, in smith machine or not. It's still resistance.
The purpose of using the bar at first it to make sure you got good form and to practice it. Regardless of how much weight you use you should focus on good form. The smith machine will take away some workload, so what will you end up doing? adding more weight, so it doesn't matter.
lol no …
so are you saying smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?
I am saying, if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress...
that was not my question.
I'll Answer your question very clearly, "I am saying, if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress..." lol
Does, "if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress... " = "smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?" ?
still does not answer my question…
is smith machine squat = to barbell squat?
it really only requires a yes or no response….
Does, "if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress... " = "smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?" ?
obviously the answer to your question is NO. Please refrain from hi-jacking and trolling.
Is it really making progress if the stabilizers and other muscles are not up to task?
To the OP, if you use the Smith Machine just remember that it will not completely carry over to barbells in the future and you may need to restart at a much different weight and adjust your form. The form adjustment may be the most difficult part.0 -
lemonsnowdrop wrote: »Hi all! So I've finally decided to start a heavy lifting program and am very excited, but much to my dismay my small gym only has a Smith machine available for squats and bench press. I know that this takes a huge workload off of what would be done with free weights, so I'm really unsure if how I can do this program, if I can do it at all. I know I certainly can't start with just the bar, as that's practically nothing, but I have no idea what weight to start at or how much to increase per workout.
Thanks in advance for any insight!
If I were you, I’d start off using the dumbbell variations until the squat racks come in at your gym. Though the Smith machine may be better than nothing, dumbells are in my opinion better than the smith machine. You can always try both and see how it goes. The bodybuilding site has a good exercise database where you can find dumbbell variations for squats / deadlifts. This way you’re still using your stabilizer muscles and the like. Good luck, and I’m sure you’ll love it!!0 -
Weight lifting is weight lifting, in smith machine or not. It's still resistance.
The purpose of using the bar at first it to make sure you got good form and to practice it. Regardless of how much weight you use you should focus on good form. The smith machine will take away some workload, so what will you end up doing? adding more weight, so it doesn't matter.
lol no …
so are you saying smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?
I am saying, if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress...
that was not my question.
I'll Answer your question very clearly, "I am saying, if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress..." lol
Does, "if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress... " = "smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?" ?
still does not answer my question…
is smith machine squat = to barbell squat?
it really only requires a yes or no response….
Does, "if she's increasing her weight regardless of what she's using she's making progress... " = "smith machine barbell squat would be equal to a barbell squat?" ?
obviously the answer to your question is NO. Please refrain from hi-jacking and trolling.
how am I derailing?
The OP asked about strong lifts in regards to a Smith Machine vs barbells/dumbbells. You made a statement about all weight lifting being equal, which they are not, and I asked you to clarify your comment for the benefit of the OP.
I am glad that we agree that barbell squats are not equal to smith machine squats.
ETA - how is she making progress if she can potentially squat 200# in the smith machine but when she goes to barbell squat without the smith she can only squat say 175#? Seems to me the smith is giving a false impression of what her real progress is.0 -
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