Beta Blockers

Leslierussell4134

First question posted
I've been taking a beta blocker for genetic hypertension for 2 years and am a 28 year old female. I am aware of my sodium intake and stay below the recommeded 2, 300mg, typically averaging 1,700mg/day/week. Since starting the beta blocker (bystalic 5mg at bedtime) I've been frustrated as I've gradually gained weight. Other factors include being in school and not getting as must activity...but I understand that part well enough. My real question is, do any of you athletes take a beta blocker and feel a bit cheated in your max HR? Beta blockers work on the heart by blocking receptors and in short overall workload of the heart reducing heart rate, ultimately reducing metabolic rate and a common side effect is weigh gain. I'm considering switching my meds to another class, allowing me to maximize my HR and fully benifit all my efforts at the gym. Since starting the medication my resting HR went from 68 to an average of 56 with no symptoms. Anyone else taking these meds that works out regularly, how do you preform on them?

poorbikrchick

I've been on a beta blocker for many years (for a different reason than high blood pressure, though). I would strongly recommend talking to your doctor about your symptoms. He/she may change your meds and/or dosage. There are many beta blockers available. It just depends on what your doctor thinks is best for you.

Keiko385

I've been taking a beta blocker for almost 3 yrs now. While it does tend to keep my HR lower it has had no effect on my exercise or weight loss. I'm about 10-15 beats off what I should be for someone my age. Best advise my cardiologist gave me was to go by my perceived exertion level.

Leslierussell4134

poorbikrchick wrote: »

I've been on a beta blocker for many years (for a different reason than high blood pressure, though). I would strongly recommend talking to your doctor about your symptoms. He/she may change your meds and/or dosage. There are many beta blockers available. It just depends on what your doctor thinks is best for you.

Thanks and definitely a doctor decsion, I'm just specifically asking how you preform athletically on them. I already take the lowest dose possible and have take 3 different main streams before taking bystalic and don't have any symptoms other than what they supposed to do...lower max HR.

Leslierussell4134

Keiko385 wrote: »

I've been taking a beta blocker for almost 3 yrs now. While it does tend to keep my HR lower it has had no effect on my exercise or weight loss. I'm about 10-15 beats off what I should be for someone my age. Best advise my cardiologist gave me was to go by my perceived exertion level.

Thanks, and yes exertion seems to be key. Do you ever feel winded toward the upper limits of HR? I love to jog, but sometimes I feel so winded and I know I never had that problem before.

karyabc

my mom use a beta blocker (atenolol) since many many years and the only side effect i can say she does have is low heart rate (usually 54) but weight gain? not really

Keiko385

I do get winded if and when I get to the upper level which is rare. Im 56 and have a doctor set HR range to workout between 116-130 for my HR, I can get to 125 and thats after 25-30 minutes of exercise. My HR hovers right around 117-120 during heavy exercise and have a resting HR of 50-52

Ang108

Leslierussell4134 wrote: »

First question posted
I've been taking a beta blocker for genetic hypertension for 2 years and am a 28 year old female. I am aware of my sodium intake and stay below the recommeded 2, 300mg, typically averaging 1,700mg/day/week. Since starting the beta blocker (bystalic 5mg at bedtime) I've been frustrated as I've gradually gained weight. Other factors include being in school and not getting as must activity...but I understand that part well enough. My real question is, do any of you athletes take a beta blocker and feel a bit cheated in your max HR? Beta blockers work on the heart by blocking receptors and in short overall workload of the heart reducing heart rate, ultimately reducing metabolic rate and a common side effect is weigh gain. I'm considering switching my meds to another class, allowing me to maximize my HR and fully benifit all my efforts at the gym. Since starting the medication my resting HR went from 68 to an average of 56 with no symptoms. Anyone else taking these meds that works out regularly, how do you preform on them?

I am not sure where you got your information from, but none of the five different types of beta blockers list as a known side effect weight gain. Since the four most common side effects are #1 diarrhea, #2 stomach cramps, #3 nausea and #4 vomiting....weight gain is not a problem. Even among the very rare of the about 25 known/listed side effcts weight gain or metabolic changes are not mention. The list is according to the Mayo Clinic and addresses about 15 of the most common brand names of beta blockers.
I have been taking beta blockers for almost 10 years ( I have problems with chronic pericardiaditis...don't know if that is the right word in English, it's inflammation and hardening of the pericardium, which in return restricts the heart ) have been able to lose 55 pounds the MFP way ( CICO and exercise ). I had the last of two heart attacks on March 27th, had my beta blocker doubled, have lost 14 pounds since then and am back to exercising for more then a month now.
Also, I don't understand that with a HR of 68 ( which is absolutely normal ) you need to take beta blockers, unless other factor come into play. Usually, people who are in good physical form have a lower HR and I don't understand why you maybe think you should have symptoms.
I would get better informed, because your post just makes not really much sense , which is most likely not your fault, because you could be misinformed, or you have for simplicity sake left out important information.
Also, you might check other areas of your life that could cause weight gain ( real or water weight gain ) like increased eating/snacking due to stress. Maybe if you are not as active as before, you need to lower your calorie intake a bit, type of food you eat that often causes water retention and other small changes of lifestyle that could influence your weight loss.
Good Luck !

PS: My resting HR is between 53-57, but I am 40 years older than you...:o).

Leslierussell4134

Ang108 wrote: »

Leslierussell4134 wrote: »

First question posted
I've been taking a beta blocker for genetic hypertension for 2 years and am a 28 year old female. I am aware of my sodium intake and stay below the recommeded 2, 300mg, typically averaging 1,700mg/day/week. Since starting the beta blocker (bystalic 5mg at bedtime) I've been frustrated as I've gradually gained weight. Other factors include being in school and not getting as must activity...but I understand that part well enough. My real question is, do any of you athletes take a beta blocker and feel a bit cheated in your max HR? Beta blockers work on the heart by blocking receptors and in short overall workload of the heart reducing heart rate, ultimately reducing metabolic rate and a common side effect is weigh gain. I'm considering switching my meds to another class, allowing me to maximize my HR and fully benifit all my efforts at the gym. Since starting the medication my resting HR went from 68 to an average of 56 with no symptoms. Anyone else taking these meds that works out regularly, how do you preform on them?

I am not sure where you got your information from, but none of the five different types of beta blockers list as a known side effect weight gain. Since the four most common side effects are #1 diarrhea, #2 stomach cramps, #3 nausea and #4 vomiting....weight gain is not a problem. Even among the very rare of the about 25 known/listed side effcts weight gain or metabolic changes are not mention. The list is according to the Mayo Clinic and addresses about 15 of the most common brand names of beta blockers.
I have been taking beta blockers for almost 10 years ( I have problems with chronic pericardiaditis...don't know if that is the right word in English, it's inflammation and hardening of the pericardium, which in return restricts the heart ) have been able to lose 55 pounds the MFP way ( CICO and exercise ). I had the last of two heart attacks on March 27th, had my beta blocker doubled, have lost 14 pounds since then and am back to exercising for more then a month now.
Also, I don't understand that with a HR of 68 ( which is absolutely normal ) you need to take beta blockers, unless other factor come into play. Usually, people who are in good physical form have a lower HR and I don't understand why you maybe think you should have symptoms.
I would get better informed, because your post just makes not really much sense , which is most likely not your fault, because you could be misinformed, or you have for simplicity sake left out important information.
Good Luck !

Thanks for the info, and I'm glad you're doing so well after your medical episodes.
I am a nurse and weight gain is listed in my nursing drug book (davis) as a side effect of beta blockers. Obviously that's why I asked the question, some not all people may have experienced this. I'm glad you didn't and good job on the loss.
It is possible to have a resting HR of 68 and high blood pressure, again, I have bed genetics...thanks Dad!!

Leslierussell4134

Keiko385 wrote: »

I do get winded if and when I get to the upper level which is rare. Im 56 and have a doctor set HR range to workout between 116-130 for my HR, I can get to 125 and thats after 25-30 minutes of exercise. My HR hovers right around 117-120 during heavy exercise and have a resting HR of 50-52

That's great, you tolerate these meds well. Thanks for your feedback.

Keiko385

I may tolerate them but wish I didn't have to take them. As a previous poster stated, maybe discuss your concerns with your Dr. who can best advise you

Ang108

[/quote]

Thanks for the info, and I'm glad you're doing so well after your medical episodes.
I am a nurse and weight gain is listed in my nursing drug book (davis) as a side effect of beta blockers. Obviously that's why I asked the question, some not all people may have experienced this. I'm glad you didn't and good job on the loss.
It is possible to have a resting HR of 68 and high blood pressure, again, I have bed genetics...thanks Dad!! [/quote]


I think even if your drug book says that weight gain can be a side effect, it might still be a good idea to also check other areas of your life style.
With all due respect, I think too many people get hooked on medical causes ( without really making sure ) for their weight gain, or lack of loss.
You as a professional health care provider probably know that less than 3% of all overweight and obese people are so due to health issues, or medications to treat those issues.
When I developed severe thyroid problems I gained over about a 5-year period about 8 pounds. When I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and after a difficult recovery period, plus it took well over two years to adjust my thyroid meds, I started to what I call " cancer induced self pity eating " and gained almost 30 kilos ( more than 60 pounds). It is true I probably did gain a little bit from not having a thyroid and no well adjusted meds, but 90 % of my weight gain had nothing to do with it, unless we accept possible psychological factors.
Again, I wish you good luck, because either way, making efforts and not succeeding is very frustrating.

999tigger

Mayo clinic says

Yes. Weight gain can occur as a side effect of some beta blockers, especially the older ones, such as atenolol (Tenormin) and metoprolol (Lopressor, Toprol-XL). The average weight gain is no more than 4 pounds (about 2 kilograms).

Newer beta blockers, such as carvedilol (Coreg), don't usually cause weight gain as a side effect. Weight may rise in the first weeks of taking the beta blocker and then generally stabilizes.

However, the beta blockers that can cause weight gain usually aren't prescribed unless other medications haven't worked, or if you have a specific heart condition that requires taking those medications.

So ask your Dr for a brand that doesnt have weight gain as a side effect. It doesnt seem to be much anyway and when you come off them it should drop back.

Thus thing about hampering your exercise is a bit mystifying. You really think if it slowers your max hr by 10 or even 20 bpm thats going to affect you much? Notwithstanding people have different heart rates, just how often are you pushing exercise so you actually need that higher rate? Id think the calorie burn would be inconsequential and the lower heart rate would have little effect on your performance.

What is it you are doing at the gym?

I think you are giving the beta blockers too much importance as for your weight issue and how they might affect your performance in the gym. Could it be you just havent built up fitness and endurance, so thats why you tire easily?

Leslierussell4134

999tigger wrote: »

Mayo clinic says

Yes. Weight gain can occur as a side effect of some beta blockers, especially the older ones, such as atenolol (Tenormin) and metoprolol (Lopressor, Toprol-XL). The average weight gain is no more than 4 pounds (about 2 kilograms).

Newer beta blockers, such as carvedilol (Coreg), don't usually cause weight gain as a side effect. Weight may rise in the first weeks of taking the beta blocker and then generally stabilizes.

However, the beta blockers that can cause weight gain usually aren't prescribed unless other medications haven't worked, or if you have a specific heart condition that requires taking those medications.

So ask your Dr for a brand that doesnt have weight gain as a side effect. It doesnt seem to be much anyway and when you come off them it should drop back.

Thus thing about hampering your exercise is a bit mystifying. You really think if it slowers your max hr by 10 or even 20 bpm thats going to affect you much? Notwithstanding people have different heart rates, just how often are you pushing exercise so you actually need that higher rate? Id think the calorie burn would be inconsequential and the lower heart rate would have little effect on your performance.

What is it you are doing at the gym?

I think you are giving the beta blockers too much importance as for your weight issue and how they might affect your performance in the gym. Could it be you just havent built up fitness and endurance, so thats why you tire easily?

Thanks for the input. I'm not signifantly over weight. But either way yes, to answer your question. I do believe a HR lowered by 15 beats per minute with no other contributors does add weight over time. That would be in accordance to MFP'S CICO methods in which this app is based on, which is most of what weight loss is based on.
In my case 12 beats per minute.
12 beats X 60 minutes is 720 beats per hour that I was lowered.
Divided by my old resting HR of 68 is about 10.5 minutes of medibolic rate I've lost/hr/day.
10.5 minutes x24 hours is about 252 minutes of lost HR ( lowered not lost) per day.
Just through logic I would say that could add up to some calories over a 2 year period, yes.
Of course people will compensate in other ways. But I do believe it can happen and that is why the entire class of beta blockers has potential for weight gain. Potential being that operative word and thus why I described my situation and asked a question. Really aimed an interest of target HR and performance while taking beta blockers.

Leslierussell4134

It's a difference of about 150 to 200 calories per day on the 4 to 5 days I work out per week. I guess that's a lot to me, especially when I get to maintaining again. I'm a small person and maybe it wouldn't affect someone with a larger calorie budget.

Azdak

The decrease in heart rate does not indicate a lowering of "metabolism ". You cannot measure or quantify anything by analyzing changes in either exercise or resting heart rate. A lower heart rate during exercise from a beta blocker does NOT mean one is burning fewer calories. Starting a beta blocker can result in an initial 6% or so reduction in VO2 Max, so one might feel ones high-intensity effort is somewhat affected, but that is not "lowered metabolism".

Leslierussell4134

Azdak wrote: »

The decrease in heart rate does not indicate a lowering of "metabolism ". You cannot measure or quantify anything by analyzing changes in either exercise or resting heart rate. A lower heart rate during exercise from a beta blocker does NOT mean one is burning fewer calories. Starting a beta blocker can result in an initial 6% or so reduction in VO2 Max, so one might feel ones high-intensity effort is somewhat affected, but that is not "lowered metabolism".

just one reference, I'm sure there are many more like it.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/18413-beta-blockers-weight-gain-side/#page=1

zenhiker2014

I've been taking a beta blocker for about 8 years to manage irregular heartbeat following valve replacement surgery. I lost quite a bit of weight the year after surgery (my first year on beta blockers) through diet and exercise. I don't know if it would have been easier without the meds but I was able to lose steadily doing the usual MFP stuff. I gained a bit back a couple years later, by slipping into bad eating habits, then got back down where I should be again a year ago. I used a Fitbit flex to estimate my calorie burn thru activity (though I did use a HR monitor for some workouts) and it seemed to be spot on because my rate of weight loss was exactly what my CICO predicted, when averaged over the long haul. I'm currently at my lowest weight and best fitness level since high school (I'm 56).

As far as exercise, I do have a low resting rate (52ish) but can get it elevated to normal levels for a female my age whenever I exercise. In fact my max is a bit higher than the max HR that standard formulas calculate for me. The only thing I've noticed is that I need to start exercise sessions a bit slower, and work up to my target intensity. If I just dive in, for example go for a hike and start off going uphill at my normal brisk pace, I may get very short of breath in the first 5 minutes. It's like the beta blockers kick in to counteract the sudden rise in heart rate, and I have to either 'break through" by continuing at as brisk a pace as I can, or (better) just back off and then increase effort more gradually. That seems to avoid the problem. Once I'm warmed up I have no issues.

I don't know if what I'm describing is actually related to the beta blockers or not. I asked my cardiologist about it once and he gave me a polite "hmm I suppose that's possible" which I interpreted to mean "not very likely." FWIW I'm on Toprol-XL.

Edited to add: I just checked using my Apple watch and my heart rate is 50 as I sit here typing this. So, pretty low. But as I said I can hit all my target HR zones in the gym or when running or biking, no problem.

Leslierussell4134

4 to 9 percent is again significant over a 2 year period...at least for me.

999tigger

Leslierussell4134 wrote: »

It's a difference of about 150 to 200 calories per day on the 4 to 5 days I work out per week. I guess that's a lot to me, especially when I get to maintaining again. I'm a small person and maybe it wouldn't affect someone with a larger calorie budget.

If by your calculation its costing you 175 calories a day for 4.5 days a week, then that would be 40950 calories a year, so 11.7lbs. Youve been on hem for 2 years, so that would be over 20lbs. have you gained 20lbs? Thats far in excess of the 2-4lbs described at the effect of some bb. If you are convinced its an umportnat part of your weight issue, then go for it. You could find one of the newer types thats not associated with weight gain. Why arent such large weight gains being recorded as a side effect?

I think youd get more benefit by just making sure your logging is accurate and working a bit harder at the gym. I dont believe the BB or a slighlt lower hr are as much of an issue as you think, but its your choice. People have naturally differing heart rates, older people have lower maximum heart rates, but they lose just fine.

Leslierussell4134

zenhiker2014 wrote: »

I've been taking a beta blocker for about 8 years to manage irregular heartbeat following valve replacement surgery. I lost quite a bit of weight the year after surgery (my first year on beta blockers) through diet and exercise. I don't know if it would have been easier without the meds but I was able to lose steadily doing the usual MFP stuff. I gained a bit back a couple years later, by slipping into bad eating habits, then got back down where I should be again a year ago. I used a Fitbit flex to estimate my calorie burn thru activity (so no HR monitor) and it seemed to be spot on because my rate of weight loss was exactly what my CICO predicted, when averaged over the long haul. I'm currently at my lowest weight and best fitness level since high school (I'm 56).

As far as exercise, I do have a low resting rate (52ish) but can get it elevated to normal levels for a female my age whenever I exercise. In fact my max is a bit higher than the max HR that standard formulas calculate for me. The only thing I've noticed is that I need to start exercise sessions a bit slower, and work up to my target intensity. If I just dive in, for example go for a hike and start off going uphill at my normal brisk pace, I may get very short of breath in the first 5 minutes. It's like the beta blockers kick in to counteract the sudden rise in heart rate, and I have to either 'break through" by continuing at as brisk a pace as I can, or (better) just back off and then increase effort more gradually. That seems to avoid the problem. Once I'm warmed up I have no issues.

I don't know if what I'm describing is actually related to the beta blockers or not. I asked my cardiologist about it once and he gave me a polite "hmm I suppose that's possible" which I interpreted to mean "not very likely." FWIW I'm on Toprol-XL.

This is the kind of stuff I was interested in, yes that makes sense. However I was never able to reach my desired 85 to 90% zone of max heart rate. At 28 I should have a max HR of about 192 and be able to train in the 175 range for shorter periods of time. Even with max effort I was never able to get above 166 without wanting to pass out no matter how long I did work out.
It's awesome how you can get there, which doesn't rob your workout.
Thanks for the response.

Azdak

Leslierussell4134 wrote: »

Azdak wrote: »

The decrease in heart rate does not indicate a lowering of "metabolism ". You cannot measure or quantify anything by analyzing changes in either exercise or resting heart rate. A lower heart rate during exercise from a beta blocker does NOT mean one is burning fewer calories. Starting a beta blocker can result in an initial 6% or so reduction in VO2 Max, so one might feel ones high-intensity effort is somewhat affected, but that is not "lowered metabolism".

just one reference, I'm sure there are many more like it.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/18413-beta-blockers-weight-gain-side/#page=1

I did not specifically address metabolism. I only said that you cannot determine a possible change in metabolism by looking at changes in resting heart rate. You described an elaborate calculation from which you claim to have quantified a specific decrease in metabolic rate and calorie burn. I was pointing out that those numbers had no basis in reality.

Leslierussell4134

999tigger wrote: »

Leslierussell4134 wrote: »

It's a difference of about 150 to 200 calories per day on the 4 to 5 days I work out per week. I guess that's a lot to me, especially when I get to maintaining again. I'm a small person and maybe it wouldn't affect someone with a larger calorie budget.

If by your calculation its costing you 175 calories a day for 4.5 days a week, then that would be 40950 calories a year, so 11.7lbs. Youve been on hem for 2 years, so that would be over 20lbs. have you gained 20lbs? Thats far in excess of the 2-4lbs described at the effect of some bb. If you are convinced its an umportnat part of your weight issue, then go for it. You could find one of the newer types thats not associated with weight gain. Why arent such large weight gains being recorded as a side effect?

I think youd get more benefit by just making sure your logging is accurate and working a bit harder at the gym. I dont believe the BB or a slighlt lower hr are as much of an issue as you think, but its your choice. People have naturally differing heart rates, older people have lower maximum heart rates, but they lose just fine.

No I gained 15 pounds, which is between the 4 ans 9 percent. The fact that we just read the American Heart association article that stated the possible effect means that it is being recorded, like it actually happens, that's why it was published. Side effects on medications are only recorded in clinch trials over the time the medication was studied and only the side effects that took place in those persons studied as required by law.
Most beta blockers are old school meds, been around for years and weren't studied in woman. Before the 1985 time frame most meds were studied in men of an average weight, about 150 to 175 pounds.
I'm likely best at changing meds, most doctors listen to request like this and do a trial run when patients are informed.
I was truely just curious to see how these meds affect other athletes and people who excersie on a regular.

Leslierussell4134

Azdak wrote: »

Leslierussell4134 wrote: »

Azdak wrote: »

The decrease in heart rate does not indicate a lowering of "metabolism ". You cannot measure or quantify anything by analyzing changes in either exercise or resting heart rate. A lower heart rate during exercise from a beta blocker does NOT mean one is burning fewer calories. Starting a beta blocker can result in an initial 6% or so reduction in VO2 Max, so one might feel ones high-intensity effort is somewhat affected, but that is not "lowered metabolism".

just one reference, I'm sure there are many more like it.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/18413-beta-blockers-weight-gain-side/#page=1

I did not specifically address metabolism. I only said that you cannot determine a possible change in metabolism by looking at changes in resting heart rate. You described an elaborate calculation from which you claim to have quantified a specific decrease in metabolic rate and calorie burn. I was pointing out that those numbers had no basis in reality.

I stand corrected, that is true. However decrease heart rate is a clinical manifestation and an indication of many other signs and symptoms. People who are bradycardic can experience coldness of the exteimities, decrease activity and energy levels. So one could determine through observation and history that without weight loss, even gain, a decrease in metabolic rate is taking place.The pathophysiology of many bodily processes are not not directly observed, but an understanding of different parts can paint a detailed picture.