Life after stronglifts?

kindrabbit

We've discussed stronglifts to death now, but what to do when you've found your max and want to move on?

Would love some suggestions on the next phase of my journey. I have 6 lbs to go to my target weight. I am currently eating at a 250 deficit and doing stronglifts 5x5 in addition to my 2 circuit classes. Once I have reached my target weight and my strength starts to plateau I think it will be time to try and build some muscle. From what I have learned from the internet I need to eat at around a 250 calorie surplus and do a hypertrophic programme which I think just means doing 3x10 instead of the 5x5 I'm currently doing and adding some accessory exercises to the main lifts I already do in stronglifts. Any advice, tips or personal experience would be greatly appreciated. Most resources I have found seem to assume a much greater knowledge than I have.

I have done a lot of googling and watched a lot of you tube vidoes and the more I learn the more unsure I am as to how to proceed. Am I over thinking it? Do I just go to the gym and lift things up? or do I find and follow a rigid plan? (my character suits having a plan - I like SL 5X5 for that reason) I have browsed bodybuilding.com and found a few that I think I would enjoy.

I am a little nervous of upping the calories and just gaining weight but I guess I have to trust the process. I suppose everyone feels like that?

Thanks in advance for your advice

CarlydogsMom

Well, I may be totally off, because what I'm doing is my own thing, not a program. It is based solely upon the previous six months I had with a personal trainer. I had to figure out my own way forward (he moved on). So yes, I did like you--researched, read, browsed, read some more...and based upon what my trainer did and all that research, AND given my immediate goals to: 1) cut after a winter of slow bulk and learning lifting; and 2) adding my summer cardio exercises of mountain biking 2-3 times/week, here's my basic outline:

I'll do my 5x5 or what have you of: squats, bench, OHP, some sort of lat/back work, and whatever accessories that I'll switch up. I almost always do a triceps exercise, but I'll also add in calves, some glute or ham work, or other pull accessories. Some days I push myself to hit a higher load but fewer reps; other days I maintain a good basic 5x5; and other days I may do big-but-boring sets of 10 reps.

Since I'm on a cut, and since I mountain bike, and since I generally go to the gym myself on most days, but with a friend on Sundays, I generally use Sundays to work a little harder and have my friend spot me on bench. So Sundays I'll try to hit higher weights on bench; other days I'm by myself, I'll bench more for reps. And if she's up for it, we deadlift together. I don't generally deadlift on my own because form issues and a few other reasons.

But basically I made a spreadsheet of my schedule, listed my core compound lifts, and a host of other accessories. I have that on my phone, and make a plan every day I go to the gym. I focus on squats, bench, OHP, and some sort of lat/back work as the main exercises I try to do each time, and then determine what accessories I need to do for the week and split them up across the week, usually doing at least one, if not two.

Try to give equal time/effort to both push/pull exercises; keep going on legs/posterior chain.

Azexas

I haven't switched off of strong lifts yet but I know a couple of people who have switched to a 5/3/1 program like Wendlers

erickirb

I would suggest Wendler or Madcow, madcow almost the same but not all 5 sets are at the same weight, last set higher weight. Since I started with a good foundation I skipped stronglifts and wend for Madcow, then on to Wendler.

_benjammin

I did SL5x5 "by the book". Stall, deload, repeat, after 3 stalls and deloads with minimal to no progress I switched to 3x5 and then briefly 1x5 before switching to MADCOW. Ran MADCOW for nearly 8 months. Now I have individualized programming by SideSteel. If you want more hypertrophy, have you considered ICF 5x5? https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

Holly_Roman_Empire

Troutsy wrote: »

I haven't switched off of strong lifts yet but I know a couple of people who have switched to a 5/3/1 program like Wendlers

This is what I did when my lifting numbers stalled doing strong lifts. 5/3/1 is a good intermediate program.

MB_Positif

I personally switched to PHUL after Stronglifts and loved the changes it made in my physique. I still gained some strength but also did some body recomp to the tune of going from a size 10 pants to a size 4 with no change in my weight. This winter I did a bulk while following a linear periodization program which was a different number of sets and reps each week for a 5 week cycle with a deload and back to the beginning again.

keithcw_the_first

I started feeling beat up all the time on 5x5. If you look at Mehdi's site, he says something about switching to 3x5 after having missing lifts and deloading three times, and then maybe down to 3x1?

Anyway, I'm not following SL as written. But I did find a lot more success when I dropped my bench down to 3x5.

I would say if you've been at it for a while and you have a good idea of what your body, diet and lifestyle can support in terms of recovery, then you can switch it up. It might be good to head over to another program, as mentioned above.

Or if you trust yourself, you can work your own stuff in. Want to focus on hypertrophy? Cool, do it. Want to pursue heavy singles? Great, do that.

Running a surplus is nervewracking, but you'd be absolutely shocked at how many calories heavy lifting seems to just absorb. And as always if you're moving too fast, it's very easy to cut out that extra PB&J or double-serving of Pop-Tarts.

kindrabbit

Thanks for all the replies, I wish I could 'like' them all individually. There are a few terms I'm unfamiliar with and I have some research to do regarding icf, wedlers, madcow and phul. I'll have to put my reading glasses on. I'm sure I'll have a few more questions when I'm done

Azexas

Karen_libert wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, I wish I could 'like' them all individually. There are a few terms I'm unfamiliar with and I have some research to do regarding icf, wedlers, madcow and phul. I'll have to put my reading glasses on. I'm sure I'll have a few more questions when I'm done

@willrun4bagels is doing the Madcow program I believe. She may be a good person to ask if you have questions. She doesn't venture into the forums that much anymore.

Unknown

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ndj1979

how long have you been running strong lifts? It may be time to bump up to a more intermediate program. ..

I have been running this one for about six months now https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/4-day-power-muscle-burn-workout-split.html

cwolfman13

It depends on what you want to do. Stronglifts was great for building a great base of strength, but I never had any intention of being a power lifter or anything. It gave me a great base for Oly lifting which I love. I work with a coach and we do a lot of Oly work...the traditional compound movements are actually more of accessory type work for me and I do them in an undulating periodization of 12/6/3 and then some isolation type stuff at the end of my workouts for things like biceps and triceps and core stuff...I do most of that stuff in the 3x10 range.

It really depends on what you want to do.

erickirb

Karen_libert wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, I wish I could 'like' them all individually. There are a few terms I'm unfamiliar with and I have some research to do regarding icf, wedlers, madcow and phul. I'll have to put my reading glasses on. I'm sure I'll have a few more questions when I'm done

Madcow is similar as SL but only the last set is done at the top weight, they still call it 3 working sets, but to me it is one, and because it is only one you can do more weight 1x5, than 5x5.

jimmmer

If I'm not too late to the party?

I've done the Bill Starr version of Madcow - it's a good routine. It has Oly Lifts instead of DL and Rows, but the principles are the same and they're sound. Madcow's version is a good segway from beginner's routines because you'll have likely encountered all the lifts involved.

636 is a good routine for intermediates, but it's 2 day a week and doesn't have DL's, so might not be everyone's cup of tea. When I did it I just did a mid-week DL session, but not everyone wants to customise to that level. If you do this - expect to eat. It'll crush you if you disrespect it.

5/3/1 is pretty widely done, well supported with apps/sites and pretty easy to follow. It has a slower progression than the routines above, but you can make up for that by choosing assistance templates for specific goals.

kindrabbit

I have just looked at the madcow app. I like the idea of finding a programme that moves on from the SL. i do need to slow down on the weight increases as I am beginning to hit my upper limit. The only thing I notice is that I would be doing fewer lifts. With stronglifts I do the full warmup with every exercise. Today I have done:
SQUATS
20kg bar 1 X 10
25kg 1 X 10
30kg 1 X 10
35kg 1 X 10
40kg 1X10
45kg 2 X 5
50kg 2 X 5
55kg 2 X 5
57.5kg 5X5 - that was tough and think I will struggle to keep form with 60kg

I did the same with Bench Press (20kg bar up to 30kg 1X10 and 35kg 5X5) and rows (20kg bar up to 35kg 1 X 10 and 40kg 5X5). I am hitting my upper limit on both these moves.

I havent increased my bench for a week as I havent had a spotter and dont feel safe upping the weight without one. The row is beginning to break form at this weight too.

Perhaps I am doing stronglifts wrong? this is what Medhi recommends from what I understood (although perhaps he jumps more than 5kg?).

nossmf

First thought is that your warm up is killing your heaviest loads, because you're using all your energy simply warming up. I had the same problem with my deadlifts, by the time I finished warming up I had no energy to really go for it. I'd wager if you added 10kg at a time (20-30-40-50) til you get close to your "max" before adding smaller increments (55-57.5-60) you'd find it much easier at higher weights.

kindrabbit

That's really helpful. Until recently I was starting with the 10kg bar so it was taking even longer! Seems counter intuitive to lower the sets but it will give me the opportunity to add some accessory lifts (is that the right term? I'm thinking lat raises, bicep curls, shrugs, calf raises, leg extensions etc). It's all beginning to become clearer, thanks guys!

CarlydogsMom

nossmf wrote: »

First thought is that your warm up is killing your heaviest loads, because you're using all your energy simply warming up. I had the same problem with my deadlifts, by the time I finished warming up I had no energy to really go for it. I'd wager if you added 10kg at a time (20-30-40-50) til you get close to your "max" before adding smaller increments (55-57.5-60) you'd find it much easier at higher weights.

Wow, I agree with above. You're doing a ton of weighted squats, and then can barely finish the ones at the weight you want to mark your progress on. I'd even suggest you do fewer sets than nossmf suggests. Bar weight at 5-10 reps; one set of 5 reps at maybe 30-40 kg, then try your 5x5 at 60 kg. Same with all your other lifts. A couple sets of low weights then get to your working or new higher load sets. If you want to do more, then do some de- loaded sets after your max.

rick_po

Yeah, for a novice doing Stronglifts, I wouldn't do more than 5 total warm-up sets for squats. And it's not necessary to do more than 2 or 3 warm-up sets for the other lifts.

And your heaviest warm-up set should only be 2 reps, or maybe even just 1 rep.

20kg x 2 x 5
30kg x 1 x 5
40kg x 1 x 5
50kg x 1 x 2
60kg x 5 x 5 (work)

If you're doing more than this, you're getting exhausted by your warm-up. Fix your warm-up, and I'll bet you still have a lot of progress left in you.

arditarose

MB_Positif wrote: »

I personally switched to PHUL after Stronglifts and loved the changes it made in my physique. I still gained some strength but also did some body recomp to the tune of going from a size 10 pants to a size 4 with no change in my weight. This winter I did a bulk while following a linear periodization program which was a different number of sets and reps each week for a 5 week cycle with a deload and back to the beginning again.

I'm doing PHUL now too, after 5/3/1. I'm doing it at maintenance, it's been about 7 weeks and I see a difference. I really like this program. I love that I get a good dose of powerlifting, but that there's plenty of hypertrophy work and I really like all the suggested lifts (except calves and leg curls twice a week, I tweak it just a little). I also really ended up loving doing all my power lifting in two days.

arditarose

MB_Positif wrote: »

I personally switched to PHUL after Stronglifts and loved the changes it made in my physique. I still gained some strength but also did some body recomp to the tune of going from a size 10 pants to a size 4 with no change in my weight. This winter I did a bulk while following a linear periodization program which was a different number of sets and reps each week for a 5 week cycle with a deload and back to the beginning again.

I'm doing PHUL now too, after 5/3/1. I'm doing it at maintenance, it's been about 7 weeks and I see a difference. I really like this program. I love that I get a good dose of powerlifting, but that there's plenty of hypertrophy work and I really like all the suggested lifts (except calves and leg curls twice a week, I tweak it just a little). I also really ended up loving doing all my power lifting in two days.

jimmmer

rick_po wrote: »

Yeah, for a novice doing Stronglifts, I wouldn't do more than 5 total warm-up sets for squats. And it's not necessary to do more than 2 or 3 warm-up sets for the other lifts.

And your heaviest warm-up set should only be 2 reps, or maybe even just 1 rep.

20kg x 2 x 5
30kg x 1 x 5
40kg x 1 x 5
50kg x 1 x 2
60kg x 5 x 5 (work)

If you're doing more than this, you're getting exhausted by your warm-up. Fix your warm-up, and I'll bet you still have a lot of progress left in you.

This.

The top sets are where the money is - that's what you should be saving yourself for.

kindrabbit

Great advice. I'll let you know on Monday!

jimmmer

Karen_libert wrote: »

Great advice. I'll let you know on Monday!

On the positive side: -

a) you've probably built some decent work capacity.

b) which means you may have built some decent recovery, too.

c) You'll also probably super-compensate - which means you should be catapulted into a new round of strength gains. (It's common when people have been on routine that's grinding them into dust that once they skip on to something lower volume they "snap back" and their strength magically seems to improve.)

kindrabbit

Really looking forward to my Monday workout now, thanks. 200lb squat here I come!!!

jimmmer

Karen_libert wrote: »

Really looking forward to my Monday workout now, thanks. 200lb squat here I come!!!

That's the spirit!

kindrabbit

Well I did day 1 week 1 of Madcow yesterday. I did a short warmup of a few arm swings etc, some frog jumps and hip stretches then squatted 10kg X10, 20kg X10, 30kg X10 and 40kg X10.

The workout was:
5X25kg (I rounded up as the app is in lbs)
5X30kg
5X35kg
5X40kg
5X50kg

Then bench press and rows

The main difference with dropping the weight is that I was able to really concentrate on my form and got super low squats in and good form rows, both of those lifts had been breaking form with the higher weight. All the lifts felt very easy and I whizzed through the workout. I added some accessory lifts - pushups 3 X 10 (big boy push ups too!! that's a first for me) 3X10 lat raises with 5kg and front raises with 5kg. Looking forward to upping the weight with those accessory lifts. I did 15 mins on the elliptical afterwards.

All in all it felt pretty easy but obviously the weights will be going up weekly so I am sure it will be a challenge in no time. Having said that, I can feel my legs more than usual this morning. Odd as I didnt feel as much of a physical challenge as I usually do. Those deep squats are gooooood!

One of the PT's commented that I was benching 30kg when he knows I can bench 40kg. I tried to explain the theory of lowering the weigh so its still a challenge but not a struggle and that there is a benefit of doing a slow, controlled lift with good form. For him, it's all about the weight. He doesn't understand why I don't just 'go heavy or go home'. They all laugh at me because I have the app on my phone and wont deviate from it!

SezxyStef

I am a little late as well.

I did SL 5x5 from Sept 13 to May 14...then switched to 3x5 for the summer.

I have been doing 5/3/1 since Sept 14...I have noticed gains in my lifts doing 5/3/1...loving the program actually.

kindrabbit

I looked at Wendler 5/3/1 but couldn't get my head around the app. Can you summarise the workout you do?

jimmmer

Karen_libert wrote: »

I looked at Wendler 5/3/1 but couldn't get my head around the app. Can you summarise the workout you do?

I'd advise reading the book. It explains why everything is structured the way it is, how to alter it according to your needs and what specific assistance template (if any) to use for your specific goals, etc.

An app will be a useful way to track your progress once you've decided what you're doing, but it can't really tell you what to do or why...