Thoughts on diet high in fat??
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The ratio between LDL and HDL cholesterol is important for determining heart disease risk, however dietary cholesterol is not the main culprit in higher LDL cholesterol. It is mainly caused by inflammation- micro abrasions to the endothelial layer of the blood vessel, caused by oxidation. LDL carries the plaque to the blood vessel to repair the micro abrasions.
The link you presented only shows that the verdict is still out per the efficacy of statin drugs since a lot of dirt has been dug up on those meds, as of late. They appear to have some pretty bad side effects that hinder compliance, but according to that paper they have benefits beyond simply lowering cholesterol.0 -
I have learned a lot about the high fat diets on youtube--Tim Noakes explains it nicely.0
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I recently started following the Keto diet which is high fat low carb. I would recommend watching the documentary 'Fat Head' as it describes the since behind the diet. So far I've had success. I've had to tweak some things but am still learning. Good luck.0
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I've always had a tendency toward a higher fat diet due to kidney issues (need to keep my protein moderate), and my gallbladder has become increasingly angry abut it. If you experience radiating upper belly pain, see a GI specialist. I'm a little sad about having to break up with ice cream (we still see each other for very special occasions) because it's such a satisfying way to eat. I wish you luck!
This for me too, pretty sure high fat diet, especially dairy fat, would put me in hospital fast!! Body seems happiest on veg and fish... Good for others if you can stay healthy and get away with it!0 -
But surely all the healthy professionals and nutrition specialists agree that the good type of fats i.e. Nuts, Avocados, Fatty Fish, Eggs etc is good for you. If you based your high fat diet around these types of things and through in some Sat Fats along with it, then you would be safe enough??0
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randiewilliams72 wrote: »I recently started following the Keto diet which is high fat low carb. I would recommend watching the documentary 'Fat Head' as it describes the since behind the diet. So far I've had success. I've had to tweak some things but am still learning. Good luck.
Best of luck, I'll check out the documentary0 -
There is no one diet that is "the one way" to eat. Personally I get stomach troubles, especially acid reflux, if I eat higher fat so I am fairly balanced (35 protein, 35 carb, 30 fat). I know people who have done very well eating high fat. I also know people who have had endless health issues since starting it. Definitely try it and see how you fare. If it doesn't work for you, it is not a failure, it just isn't the best way for YOU to eat.0
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isulo_kura wrote: »I'm afraid despite what the high fat proponents think. the mainstream medical community still agree there is a link between dietary cholesterol and heart disease. To me this pro eat silly amounts of fat idea is just another case of wishful thinking. People like to hear good news about their bad habits
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1507041
In my opinion if a group of well respected scientist review the available literature in one of the most well respected medical journals in the world and conclude dietary cholesterol is still an issue personally I think ignoring that is just wishful thinking
I'm not sure that the study you linked is what you are referring to. This study relates to the correlation of blood levels of LDL and adverse health effects and the effectiveness of statins. At this point the notoriously slow moving USDA is publishing some data stating the cholesterol/fat consumption does not directly affect blood lipids. To me this indicates that the preponderance of reliable studies are supporting that assumption.
There doesn't seem to be much doubt cast on the belief that high levels of blood cholesterol has adverse effects, only that high dietary consumption of fats doesn't correlate to high blood levels.0 -
isulo_kura wrote: »I'm afraid despite what the high fat proponents think. the mainstream medical community still agree there is a link between dietary cholesterol and heart disease. To me this pro eat silly amounts of fat idea is just another case of wishful thinking. People like to hear good news about their bad habits
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe1507041
In my opinion if a group of well respected scientist review the available literature in one of the most well respected medical journals in the world and conclude dietary cholesterol is still an issue personally I think ignoring that is just wishful thinking
I'm not sure that the study you linked is what you are referring to. This study relates to the correlation of blood levels of LDL and adverse health effects and the effectiveness of statins. At this point the notoriously slow moving USDA is publishing some data stating the cholesterol/fat consumption does not directly affect blood lipids. To me this indicates that the preponderance of reliable studies are supporting that assumption.
There doesn't seem to be much doubt cast on the belief that high levels of blood cholesterol has adverse effects, only that high dietary consumption of fats doesn't correlate to high blood levels.
I think people are overstating the change, especially with respect to saturated fat, largely based on one study. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/2014/03/19/dietary-fat-and-heart-disease-study-is-seriously-misleading/
I don't think there's any reason to worry overmuch about fat, including even reasonable levels of saturated fat, and I am personally skeptical about some of the correlations found (as having other possible causes, including that people who worry about leading a healthy lifestyle are likely to follow nutrition advice), but for some reason people keep claiming that nutrition scientists now say that sat fat is healthy in any amounts, and that's generally not accurate.0 -
It's awesome!
I recommend staying away from carbs like sugars as much as possible.
I am Carbohydrates 182 (35 %) Fat 92 g (40 %) Protein 130 g (25 %) This is my own macros, not generated by myfitnesspal . I'm usually under my estimates on protein and carbs by around 20-50 and sometimes I go over, but it all balances out. The reason I am only 25%protein is 130 grams is plenty for my age and size and workouts/ H.I.T training I do. I'd rather have fats than carbs, I feel full on my healthy fats proteins and little carbs I get.
Do what works for you though, my set up will not work for all. Myfitnesspal said i needed 300 carbs and only 30 grams of fat.
IIFYM is good and all, but just because a person loses weight doesn't mean they're healthy, plus generally people only look at the calorie portion and overload on sugar, sodium and don't get enough protein to build muscle, fats to feed the brain and other organs Hormones too! Not to mention the lack of nutrients like the vitamin B family.
I often see, a person eat cereals and stuff along this line because hey, fits my macros. Why eat an egg when I can have a poptart, it's common sense why.
Thus, I believe people should really research for themselves.
My Energy levels has never been a problem actually seems better, I use to get a lot of headaches I rarely do now. If the body isn't getting enough sugar, it will make it from fat and proteins anyways. One thing that I recommend if you do go a higher healthy fat diet, get the daily recommended fiber of 25-40 grams, you should be doing this regardless but without carbs like veg's pepole often don't get it.0 -
There is a plethora of good research in support of high fat diets.
Nevertheless, some people prefer moderate protein, moderate fat, high carb diets. Some prefer high fat, moderate protein and very low carb diets. Some prefer high protein, moderate fat and moderate carb diets. Some folks prefer a yet different combination of macronutrients. It's highly individual.
Mega dittos on it being individual. I was going too low-carb for a while and since Ive switched to a more reasonable amount of carbs (from 100g-150g per day to 200g-250g per day) I feel and perform better overall. Its easy to get sucked into all of the "carb-hating" out there these days but I think most people find that severe carb restrictions regardless of what else you eat just doesnt work too well. High fat diets seem fine but ya gotta eat carbs too!
Going "keto" or whatever that super high fat diet thing is called would appear to get quite boring food wise after a short time. Its like...meat, eggs, avocados, nuts. Again and again and again. Bleh.
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It's awesome!
I recommend staying away from carbs like sugars as much as possible.
I am Carbohydrates 182 (35 %) Fat 92 g (40 %) Protein 130 g (25 %) This is my own macros, not generated by myfitnesspal . I'm usually under my estimates on protein and carbs by around 20-50 and sometimes I go over, but it all balances out. The reason I am only 25%protein is 130 grams is plenty for my age and size and workouts/ H.I.T training I do. I'd rather have fats than carbs, I feel full on my healthy fats proteins and little carbs I get.
Do what works for you though, my set up will not work for all. Myfitnesspal said i needed 300 carbs and only 30 grams of fat.
IIFYM is good and all, but just because a person loses weight doesn't mean they're healthy, plus generally people only look at the calorie portion and overload on sugar, sodium and don't get enough protein to build muscle, fats to feed the brain and other organs Hormones too! Not to mention the lack of nutrients like the vitamin B family.
I often see, a person eat cereals and stuff along this line because hey, fits my macros. Why eat an egg when I can have a poptart, it's common sense why.
Thus, I believe people should really research for themselves.
My Energy levels has never been a problem actually seems better, I use to get a lot of headaches I rarely do now. If the body isn't getting enough sugar, it will make it from fat and proteins anyways. One thing that I recommend if you do go a higher healthy fat diet, get the daily recommended fiber of 25-40 grams, you should be doing this regardless but without carbs like veg's pepole often don't get it.
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First of all, I'm honestly surprised at all the the support stemming from the MFP community since they are notorious for slamming low carb diets into the dirt. With that said, be careful with what is said here and make sure to do your own research before making any commitments.
You say High Fat but I just want to make it clear that you will not be doing a "High Fat" diet but rather a "Low Carb" diet. Many people find success by staying under 20 NET carbs a day. Net carbs means you take the total amount of carbs and subtract the FIBER since it is not digestible. Next, you need to hit your protein goal. The rest of your calories can come from fat but if you are full......don't eat. This is where your calorie deficit will come from. Your fat goal doesn't really matter, you don't have to hit it every day. Low carb diets do not defy the laws of thermodynamics! You still need to eat at deficit to lose weight.
What makes "Low Carb" diets so appealing is that people feel FULL and thus they are more likely to stay on the diet because it is more sustainable. This diet is also great for people who are mostly sedentary but if you are going to incorporate exercise it requires a little more finesse. Unfortunately, I really don't have much knowledge about so you'll have to look into that on your own.
What i do know is that it takes awhile for the body to get adapted to using fat as it's primary source of energy so be patient. It can take anywhere from a week to a month. During this adaptation phase you can feel very ill, almost like you have the flu. You could possibly experience headaches, body aches, and fatigue. Most of these symptoms can be resolved by simply eating more salt/electrolytes (chicken or beef broth/sugar free power-aid) and taking a magnesium supplement. After your adaptation phase you will feel much better. Energy levels will increase and some people even report that their mood stabilized.
In regard to the fat/cholesterol debate, eh. Just have a blood panel done before you start and get it done again after a couple of months. You most likely will see an improvement unless you have something really wrong with you that makes this diet unsafe. There is no way to figure this out unless you have the tests done and see what works best for you.
I hope this helps. My diary is also open so you can take a look and see what my normal day looks like. I also do intermittent fasting so that is why you will see I only have a cup of coffee in the morning and no breakfast. I am only 5'3" so my allotted calories are at 1200. This means I have to eat much less than you to see results.0 -
There is a plethora of good research in support of high fat diets.
Nevertheless, some people prefer moderate protein, moderate fat, high carb diets. Some prefer high fat, moderate protein and very low carb diets. Some prefer high protein, moderate fat and moderate carb diets. Some folks prefer a yet different combination of macronutrients. It's highly individual.
Mega dittos on it being individual. I was going too low-carb for a while and since Ive switched to a more reasonable amount of carbs (from 100g-150g per day to 200g-250g per day) I feel and perform better overall. Its easy to get sucked into all of the "carb-hating" out there these days but I think most people find that severe carb restrictions regardless of what else you eat just doesnt work too well. High fat diets seem fine but ya gotta eat carbs too!
Going "keto" or whatever that super high fat diet thing is called would appear to get quite boring food wise after a short time. Its like...meat, eggs, avocados, nuts. Again and again and again. Bleh.
I agree there's definitely not a one size fits all approach when it comes to nutrition for fitness. I don't really see the sense in cutting out a whole food group completely (they are there for a reason, right). The whole Keto thing seems far to strict for me, I think it advocates that your carbs should be at a ratio of 10% or something. I'm thinking about 130 grams of carbs would be fine for me, but it'll probably take a bit of experimentation.
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dopeysmelly wrote: »I kind of naturally increased my fat without really thinking about it much. I gravitated that way because I felt a lot better in myself and I just preferred eating that kind of food.
I didn't watch the saturated fat, and I found my "bad" cholesterol went sky-high (even after losing 65 lbs, go figure!), so I've since cut saturated fat right down (cholesterol went right down with it and then some), BUT I still eat quite high fat (around 40-45%).
My limited understanding is that the saturated fat-cholesterol response is an individual thing affecting an unknown proportion of the population (I've seen 1/4 to 1/3 thrown around). Also, the effect on heart disease is being argued about constantly. But the chances are you won't know until you try it so you might want to just keep it in the back of your mind.
I tend to agree with this! Our bodies are highly individualized and what works for some may give others a fatty liver or sky high cholesterol. We are all different genetically and certian cultures more addapt to a way of earing. The FDA can't stand behind a glass of red wine per day because many may tolerate and see health benifits and some may have cirrhosis within 5 years.
As long as you feel good, have energy and stay up on blood work to monitor, why not give it a go.0 -
I agree there's definitely not a one size fits all approach when it comes to nutrition for fitness. I don't really see the sense in cutting out a whole food group completely (they are there for a reason, right). The whole Keto thing seems far to strict for me, I think it advocates that your carbs should be at a ratio of 10% or something. I'm thinking about 130 grams of carbs would be fine for me, but it'll probably take a bit of experimentation.
130g of carbs would not be in line with the diet you are asking about. If you want most of your calories to come from fat then the calories from carbs need to be reduced. if you do not want to go as extreme as 20 NET carbs i suggest at least staying below 100.
This website can help you find the correct macros. http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/0 -
I eat higher in protein and fat and less in carbs.I'm diabetic.0
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I used to be on 60% carbs/30% protein/10% fat switched to 20c/30p/50f. I don't always hit my target but pretty close.
I have the same energy level. The only difference I noticed is the satiety level. I normally need to eat every 2-3 hours with 60% carbs, albeit they are mostly from complex carbs. With 50% fat I can go 4-5 hours in between meals. My sources of fat are nuts, avocado, fresh and dried coconut, olive oil, black olives, salmon, sardines in olive oil, eggs, lean meat, flax meal/seeds, dark chocolates.
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I agree there's definitely not a one size fits all approach when it comes to nutrition for fitness. I don't really see the sense in cutting out a whole food group completely (they are there for a reason, right). The whole Keto thing seems far to strict for me, I think it advocates that your carbs should be at a ratio of 10% or something. I'm thinking about 130 grams of carbs would be fine for me, but it'll probably take a bit of experimentation.
130g of carbs would not be in line with the diet you are asking about. If you want most of your calories to come from fat then the calories from carbs need to be reduced. if you do not want to go as extreme as 20 NET carbs i suggest at least staying below 100.
This website can help you find the correct macros. http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
Thanks for the advice Marcae, I'll definitely keep it in mind as it something I might try out in the future depending on how I get on with my current Macro ratios.
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cleanbulk_hatersgfy wrote: »I used to be on 60% carbs/30% protein/10% fat switched to 20c/30p/50f. I don't always hit my target but pretty close.
I have the same energy level. The only difference I noticed is the satiety level. I normally need to eat every 2-3 hours with 60% carbs, albeit they are mostly from complex carbs. With 50% fat I can go 4-5 hours in between meals. My sources of fat are nuts, avocado, fresh and dried coconut, olive oil, black olives, salmon, sardines in olive oil, eggs, lean meat, flax meal/seeds, dark chocolates.
Thanks for the post, that's pretty close to the ratio's I'm implementing, its always good to see what types of foods other are using to reach they're goals as well.
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http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/06/23/what-happens-to-the-carbs/
Makes the interesting point that saturated fat is made by the body. Backs up published work by Volk, Volek and others showing levels of fats in blood unrelated to levels in food.0 -
http://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2015/06/23/what-happens-to-the-carbs/
Makes the interesting point that saturated fat is made by the body. Backs up published work by Volk, Volek and others showing levels of fats in blood unrelated to levels in food.
Quacks gonna quack
"Once the liver and muscles are full of sugar (stored as glycogen – a polymer of glucose) the body can do absolutely nothing else with it, but turn it into fat – through the processes I have described earlier. This is basic, incontrovertible science."
So if glycogen stores are full, zero % of the carbs will be oxidized and 100% will be turned to fat through DNL?0 -
He refers to "Excess carbohydrates" further up, but could have made it clearer.0
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He refers to "Excess carbohydrates" further up, but could have made it clearer.
he quotes a wikipedia post that refers to excess, he however doesn't mention it at all
"1: Carbohydrates, such as fruit and vegetables, bread, pasta… and, of course, less complex sugars – such as the stuff we sprinkle on cornflakes, that we call ‘sugar’, are all turned into simple sugars in the human digestive tract before entering the bloodstream.
2: If you keep eating carbohydrate the resultant simple sugars will, at first, be stored. The human body can pack away around 1,500 calories of sugar. However, once this limit is reached, the liver will turn the rest into fat."
Again, eating carbs means it's either stored as glycogen or it's converted to fat at a 100% rate through DNL
"hen you understand the science you find yourself looking at the diet heart hypothesis (fat in the diet raises LDL levels, which causes heart disease) and thinking. This does not make any sense at all. Yet, such is the determination of the nutritional experts to defend their position that they never, ever, talk about ‘what happens to the carbs?’
What happens to the carbs is that they are all turned into saturated fat. This then raises VLDL levels and these, in turn becomes LDL. Yet eating carbs is supposed to be healthy, and eating saturated fat is unhealthy. Go figure."
Yup, there has been zero overfeeding trials looking at what happens during carb overfeeding.0 -
I was on the keto diet for epilepsy (it was pretty extreme) and I couldn't get on with it.
Nausea, always on the loo, bad breath etc. Carbs were negligible so slightly different to yours but I remember everything had double cream in it and inches of butter on everything. It sounds great but believe me after a while I would've given my right arm for some plain toast and plain veggies and just a little bit of sugar. I was virtually sugar free and to home cook everything.
But bizarrely after all that moaning I have to say I was never sluggish and had good energy levels.0 -
What happens to the carbs is that they are all turned into saturated fat. This then raises VLDL levels and these, in turn becomes LDL. Yet eating carbs is supposed to be healthy, and eating saturated fat is unhealthy. Go figure."
Yup, there has been zero overfeeding trials looking at what happens during carb overfeeding.
Actually the USDA has put us on a 50 year Carb overfeeding trial. Results: 60-70% of the American population is overweight. High levels of type 2 diabetes, cancer, arthritis....
Sweden is bucking the trend by recommending a low carb diet for their nation. I believe the results are promising so far. I wonder what the verdict will be in 50 years.
I think, as with most things a balance will be found.
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What happens to the carbs is that they are all turned into saturated fat. This then raises VLDL levels and these, in turn becomes LDL. Yet eating carbs is supposed to be healthy, and eating saturated fat is unhealthy. Go figure."
Yup, there has been zero overfeeding trials looking at what happens during carb overfeeding.
Actually the USDA has put us on a 50 year Carb overfeeding trial. Results: 60-70% of the American population is overweight. High levels of type 2 diabetes, cancer, arthritis....
Sweden is bucking the trend by recommending a low carb diet for their nation. I believe the results are promising so far. I wonder what the verdict will be in 50 years.
I think, as with most things a balance will be found.
http://www.helgilibrary.com/indicators/index/sugar-consumption-per-capita
https://www.statsmonkey.com/table/20586-list-of-countries-by-sugar-consumption.php
The USA is only 38th place in sugar consumption, but last I checked the USA was #1 in obesity.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg0 -
What happens to the carbs is that they are all turned into saturated fat. This then raises VLDL levels and these, in turn becomes LDL. Yet eating carbs is supposed to be healthy, and eating saturated fat is unhealthy. Go figure."
Yup, there has been zero overfeeding trials looking at what happens during carb overfeeding.
Actually the USDA has put us on a 50 year Carb overfeeding trial. Results: 60-70% of the American population is overweight. High levels of type 2 diabetes, cancer, arthritis....
Sweden is bucking the trend by recommending a low carb diet for their nation. I believe the results are promising so far. I wonder what the verdict will be in 50 years.
I think, as with most things a balance will be found.
Yup just the carbs, no other potential confounders there
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