How do you know if you have plateaued?
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not nasty true...
No, it was nasty. I have a right to agree and disagree with what people post and it doesn't mean I only want people to tell me what I want to hear. I am not a sheep, I take advice but don't need to just automatically follow or agree with it just because. Get off your high horse.
You have a right to disagree, but the people who you are disagreeing with have walked the path you say you want to walk and can back what they say up. If you want to believe you are in starvation mode or any of the other myths then fill your boots, we see time and again new dieters complaining they arent losing and it always boils down to them eating more than they think, burning less and inaccurate logging or lack of patience. If you believe its different for you than everyone else, then i suggest you go and see a Dr for a more in depth diagnosis.
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daniwilford wrote: »I am so grateful for people who continue to post the truth even when they might be labeled as "Nasty". These tough skinned people are continually calling people out who offer incorrect advice. If you search through threads you see the same people consistently combating misinformation with facts, science, and success to back up what they say.
Amen
You are right..i noticed lately that my attitude is/was changing in...I dont care..why should i post. People dont want/like to hear the truth.
Why should i go in ridiculous discussion while an OP dont want to hear it anyway.
@daniwilford you are soooo right!
For myself... i dont know Still in the backing off mood and let them discover and figuring it out them self.0 -
TheOwlhouseDesigns wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I am so grateful for people who continue to post the truth even when they might be labeled as "Nasty". These tough skinned people are continually calling people out who offer incorrect advice. If you search through threads you see the same people consistently combating misinformation with facts, science, and success to back up what they say.
Amen
You are right..i noticed lately that my attitude is/was changing in...I dont care..why should i post. People dont want/like to hear the truth.
Why should i go in ridiculous discussion while an OP dont want to hear it anyway.
@daniwilford you are soooo right!
For myself... i dont know Still in the backing off mood and let them discover and figuring it out them self.
I did that too for a while...it's nice to take a break and come back.0 -
Wow, cool. Good to know this supportive environment is only supportive if you don't dare have any controversial opinions and just do what everyone says with no questions asked. Ever heard you attract more bees with honey than vinegar? Being rude and posting telling me that essentially I have no idea what I am talking about, that I shouldn't even bother posting, and that I haven't lost enough weight to apparently "qualify" to know what I am talking about doesn't exactly seem supportive or helpful to me. It is rude, anyone here who felt like I wasn't listening to the right advice could have said so in a much less offensive way. How it was put was just plain disrespectful to me and RUDE.
Also do you guys fail to see that in your apparent agreement you actually disagree. A good portion of you are telling me it isn't a plateau and is just water weight, and the other half are saying that it is simply a CICO equation and if I am not losing I must be inaccurately logging (which isn't the case, I weight everything that goes in my body and am obsessive about it). Jesus, I cannot even stand how rude people are being in this thread about this issue.-1 -
Different things work for different people. You know you're doing the right thing for you when it works. If it works, don't worry about whether I approve or MFP approves or Joe Ding Dong walking down the street approves.How do you know? You see that you're not losing. Seems like an obvious thing to me, so I'm not sure if that's really what you meant to ask.
Pretty much I asked because I had seen before people saying that it is only a true "plateau" if it has be X amount of weeks...and that pretty much follows with the responses. No offense to people posting here, but if I went 2 months without losing a pound while eating 1300 calories a day I would quit completely. I have like 100 lbs to lose, so if my body won't even lose a lb in 2 months of that kind of calorie restriction...what the hell is the point in depriving myself of food I love? 2 weeks of not losing was bad enough, 6-8 weeks is just ridiculous. Perhaps not ridiculous if you are down to the last 20 lbs or less left to lose, but when you still have 100 left to go no way is that reasonable IMHO.ManiacalLaugh wrote: »
So, the break worked for me.
Despite the fact that I generally agree with most of what the veterans here say, this is one place where we differ. I took a similar break after a five month or so plateau and it also worked. Yeah - I gained while on break, and it's important for people to realize this - if you eat over your maintenance you will gain. But once I dipped back down into a deficit again, I started losing.
There is actual science behind why taking a break helps you lose, but it comes down to a hotly debated subject here I have noticed which is "set point" weight. Studies have shown people maintain a remarkably stable weight just listening to eating when hungry and as much as they feel they need to be full, which has led scientists to believe people have a "set point" that their bodies want to be at. It is dysfunctional in obese people, and they believe the Western diet because of its calorie dense nature is part of why we have such an issue here...it somehow messes with the set point. Anyways, essentially those studies show that your body will adjust metabolism to compensate for reduced calories in its attempt to return to its set weight. However that is a sluggish reaction, so if you eat over those calories for a few days it "resets" and when you cut calories again you will resume losing since your body has its metabolism back to normal. Other way to accomplish the same thing is working out, as that ramps up your metabolism as well, but without working out it looks like cheat days may have some merit. I just don't think I like them this time around, feels like it is going to screw with my hunger levels making me hungrier and harder to get back to dieting.
The truth is that nobody has all the answers. People who are actually qualified to study it - guys with Ivy League educations and years of experience - they don't know. They aren't even sure what triggers weight loss. What happens in the body, exactly, that triggers it to use up fat? They're not sure. It's a science in it's infancy, but getting bigger all the time.
So, relax. Do what works for you and don't worry too much about how it works or whether it should. There are so many ideas about How To Do It that you can't follow them all, so follow your bliss.
Keep trying until you find the thing that works. Be flexible to switch it up if it stops working and don't give up.
That's my $.02
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http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/dont-count-calories-to-lose-weight-the-body-fat-set-point-theory
https://medical.mit.edu/sites/default/files/set_point_theory.pdf
Two reputable sources to back up what I was talking about, this isn't bro-science, this is the science of obesity which is a VERY changeable field. New stuff is being discovered every year, we do not know enough about obesity, causes and cures yet to say anything for sure but a lot of studies back up this theory.0 -
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The truth is that nobody has all the answers. People who are actually qualified to study it - guys with Ivy League educations and years of experience - they don't know. They aren't even sure what triggers weight loss. What happens in the body, exactly, that triggers it to use up fat? They're not sure. It's a science in it's infancy, but getting bigger all the time.
LOL, funny how we ended up pretty posting that exact same point within a minute of each other. I agree, the science of weight loss and obesity is not understood very well yet which means nobody (no matter how amazing they are for losing what they have lost so far) is the know it all expert on it. I mentioned the somewhat controversial, set point theory and everyone wants to tell me I know nothing? Ok...but honestly, neither do you or anybody when it comes to this. All we can do is offer what worked for US and take it from there, I dislike feeling like this thread became "DO IT HOW I DO IT OR YOU ARE DUMB AND WON'T LOSE!" being jammed down my throat. Not cool guys, I listened to all the advice and took parts of it to apply to my weight loss (like the trendweight graph) but just because I am not going to do 100% of what you recommend doesn't mean I didn't appreciate the people who contributed advice. I listened, but I don't just obey blindly, sorry if I am only allowed to post if that I what I will do with all the "valid" (like how you all get to choose which opinions are right and valid too) advice tells me...didn't see that in the MFP guidelines.
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and right now for medical reasons I cannot exercise (have an appointment to see a pulmonologist as I cannot exert myself without my O2 levels dropping, likely because of the 2 bouts of pneumonia last year). I feel so stuck and getting frustrated.
Your O2 levels drop with minimal exertion???? I really think a physician should be monitoring your calories/exercise weight loss progress more so than this MFP board. Are you on medications, steroids?? Those can def cause a gain including water retention
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bibimazoon wrote: »and right now for medical reasons I cannot exercise (have an appointment to see a pulmonologist as I cannot exert myself without my O2 levels dropping, likely because of the 2 bouts of pneumonia last year). I feel so stuck and getting frustrated.
Your O2 levels drop with minimal exertion???? I really think a physician should be monitoring your calories/exercise weight loss progress more so than this MFP board. Are you on medications, steroids?? Those can def cause a gain including water retention
She didn't say it was with minimal exertion. She said it was with exercise and that she's seeing a doctor.0 -
bibimazoon wrote: »Your O2 levels drop with minimal exertion???? I really think a physician should be monitoring your calories/exercise weight loss progress more so than this MFP board. Are you on medications, steroids?? Those can def cause a gain including water retention
Pretty much what Kalikel said, it isn't with minimal exertion, it is with any exercise that would increase my respiratory rate. I have asthma and got pneumonia a couple times last year, so clearly my lungs are just not in great shape. I am seeing a doc in a week, specialists take a while to get in to see. I was on steroids though for my last bout of pneumonia in March, and the weight gain caused by them is what originally made me take up dieting again as I gained 10 lbs and was miserable. So I am very familiar with the side effects of steroids unfortunately.Neither of those sites actually talk about the science or research behind the set point theory. It has been bandied about for decades, however it has rarely to my knowledge been backed up by actual studies. I believe this is because it is just that...a theory, but not anything that has actually been proven to exist for the average person without medical issues.
Theory in this context is scientific theory, which is defined as "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation". I won't argue about the validity of those studies, as that tends to go around in circles as, again as Kalikal and I said, the science of weight loss is basically ALL theories because we don't understand it. Metabolic rates can be guessed at for most people, but they differ greatly and so therefore does success at weight loss. I don't see anyone using the "set point" as an excuse to not continue to lose weight, I sure as heck am not, I am just saying that it seems something changed and while eating the same amount of calories I have stalled out on lbs lost. I proposed set weight as a possible explanation, my body has slowed its metabolic rate which is why I am not longer losing the 1-2 lbs a week I was before. I am not giving up, not even going to cheat again because as I said multiple times I did it and it felt terrible.0 -
I recently had the same thing happen to me yesterday I posted a subject the same as yours and it was very hurtful because I had people come on there "that knew they were right no exception" they wasn't nice about it when I talked about weather I thought it was true advice or not. Either way people can be so rude. You might not want to ask for help again it really can tear someone down.0
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Stalls are a fact in weight loss
Plateaus are rare and generally due to issues with logging but can only be identified after a set time which is why you see 6-8 weeks repeated so often
Water weight has huge impact on scale weight
Scientific theory is not the same as peer reviewed studies or double blind clinical trials - try using google scholar rather than google
A diet break can help after a decent amount of time losing ...leptin and psychological benefits
And asthma, and pneumonia, from personal experience is an *kitten*!
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I have found I never have had weeks on weeks of no weightloss. I eat much calories one day, little the next day. I just make sure I stay within my calories for the week. I don't obsess with 1300 a day and never go over that. I eat "junk" everyday but I also eat very healthy most days. I eat 2200 calories one day and 1200 one day and 1650 one day and so on. To me...if my weight get stuck one week or two, I'm do something to get it going again. It has never been a problem for me..ever.
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Fwiw, I kept going to the doctor complaining about my lack of energy and inability to exercise and got nowhere. I had a loser doctor, lol. He'd say I should exercise MORE and I'd have more energy. He tried putting me on anti-depressants. He got mad when I said I really thought it had to be thyroid because I had EVERY symptom in spades. No, he said, he'd tested for that and I didn't have a thyroid issue. I needed to eat less and exercise more.
We went back and forth over it several times on several visits. I gave up and figured there was something wrong with me that couldn't be detected. But I knew I wasn't lazy and I knew I wasn't depressed.
My thyroid was so ginormous that it had grown through my chest, was smooshing my lungs and had pushed my trachea over so air had trouble getting through to the lungs that were too crowded to perform their best, anyway. That's also why I'd gag and cough all the damn time, which my doctor literally blew off with a puff of air through his lips.
A new doctor showed up and I was in surgery less than two weeks later, including visits to an endo, cardiology clearance, seeing the surgeon and pre-testing. They flew me threw all of it. The first thing the surgeon said to me when he came to see me after my surgery was, "I believe you had trouble breathing!" He went on about how ridiculously hard the surgery had been (and I felt sorry, like it was my fault, lol.) The surgeon was pissed OFF when he heard my tale of multiple visits, being told I didn't have a thyroid problem and the suggestion that I should take antidepressants. I saw the antidepressant thing make him tense, lol. That's when he asked for the guy's name and office location, lol. The meaner part of me hopes he gave that guy hell for putting me through it...and so that nobody else has to endure decades of BS.
I'm not suggesting that you have my issues. I'm pretty sure you don't! But...
I'm big on Second Opinions!
Never give up. 0 -
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Fwiw, I kept going to the doctor complaining about my lack of energy and inability to exercise and got nowhere. I had a loser doctor, lol. He'd say I should exercise MORE and I'd have more energy. He tried putting me on anti-depressants. He got mad when I said I really thought it had to be thyroid because I had EVERY symptom in spades. No, he said, he'd tested for that and I didn't have a thyroid issue. I needed to eat less and exercise more.
We went back and forth over it several times on several visits. I gave up and figured there was something wrong with me that couldn't be detected. But I knew I wasn't lazy and I knew I wasn't depressed.
My thyroid was so ginormous that it had grown through my chest, was smooshing my lungs and had pushed my trachea over so air had trouble getting through to the lungs that were too crowded to perform their best, anyway. That's also why I'd gag and cough all the damn time, which my doctor literally blew off with a puff of air through his lips.
A new doctor showed up and I was in surgery less than two weeks later, including visits to an endo, cardiology clearance, seeing the surgeon and pre-testing. They flew me threw all of it. The first thing the surgeon said to me when he came to see me after my surgery was, "I believe you had trouble breathing!" He went on about how ridiculously hard the surgery had been (and I felt sorry, like it was my fault, lol.) The surgeon was pissed OFF when he heard my tale of multiple visits, being told I didn't have a thyroid problem and the suggestion that I should take antidepressants. I saw the antidepressant thing make him tense, lol. That's when he asked for the guy's name and office location, lol. The meaner part of me hopes he gave that guy hell for putting me through it...and so that nobody else has to endure decades of BS.
I'm not suggesting that you have my issues. I'm pretty sure you don't! But...
I'm big on Second Opinions!
Never give up.
well I hoped you lodged an official complaint against your initial doctor
because really primary care (in the UK we call them general practitioners and I really believe that's because they generally know nothing about specific conditions) should be a stepping stone to expert advice0 -
Wow, cool. Good to know this supportive environment is only supportive if you don't dare have any controversial opinions and just do what everyone says with no questions asked. Ever heard you attract more bees with honey than vinegar? Being rude and posting telling me that essentially I have no idea what I am talking about, that I shouldn't even bother posting, and that I haven't lost enough weight to apparently "qualify" to know what I am talking about doesn't exactly seem supportive or helpful to me. It is rude, anyone here who felt like I wasn't listening to the right advice could have said so in a much less offensive way. How it was put was just plain disrespectful to me and RUDE.
Also do you guys fail to see that in your apparent agreement you actually disagree. A good portion of you are telling me it isn't a plateau and is just water weight, and the other half are saying that it is simply a CICO equation and if I am not losing I must be inaccurately logging (which isn't the case, I weight everything that goes in my body and am obsessive about it). Jesus, I cannot even stand how rude people are being in this thread about this issue.
well apparently you have all the answers...so why did you ask the question????
and if you are so sure of your logging accuracy open your diary (won't hold my breath for that) because it's about more than just weighing your food...it's about consistently logging and choosing correct entries.
Support <> blind affirmation of incorrect information...such as set point.
You haven't lost weight for a while and asked for information as to why...those that have lost a lot of weight gave you advice...water retention, CICO etc....which btw go together....they aren't in contrast to each other.
And to end this post...you are the only one cursing, you are the only one attacking so you are the one being rude.0 -
I do not know anyone in these forums personally only by watching what they post and the sites they reference when offering advice. I have no private agenda, I am not going to write a book but I have read a great many of them. The MIT paper, "Set Point Theory", sites 'Adapted from Integrative Group Treatment for Bulimia Nervosa by Helen Riess, M.D. and Mary Dockray-' as it's only source. They are extrapolating on a study of people being treated for an eating disorder, to support their theory.0
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So last week, according to MFP, I ate 4600 fewer calories than I need or was allowed. I'm trying to lose 1 lb a week. I didn't lose an ounce last week. In fact, I gained .1 lbs. WTH? I'm honest about what I eat and the exercise I do if not very conservative with the exercise and with the foods I eat. I've logged every day for over 100 days. I'm down 18 lbs, but lack of results like this are hard to accept and continue. I'm getting frustrated.0
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Did you see the graph I posted on the first page of this thread?Seibert_Scott wrote: »So last week, according to MFP, I ate 4600 fewer calories than I need or was allowed. I'm trying to lose 1 lb a week. I didn't lose an ounce last week. In fact, I gained .1 lbs. WTH? I'm honest about what I eat and the exercise I do if not very conservative with the exercise and with the foods I eat. I've logged every day for over 100 days. I'm down 18 lbs, but lack of results like this are hard to accept and continue. I'm getting frustrated.
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TheOwlhouseDesigns wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I am so grateful for people who continue to post the truth even when they might be labeled as "Nasty". These tough skinned people are continually calling people out who offer incorrect advice. If you search through threads you see the same people consistently combating misinformation with facts, science, and success to back up what they say.
Amen
You are right..i noticed lately that my attitude is/was changing in...I dont care..why should i post. People dont want/like to hear the truth.
Why should i go in ridiculous discussion while an OP dont want to hear it anyway.
@daniwilford you are soooo right!
For myself... i dont know Still in the backing off mood and let them discover and figuring it out them self.
I did that too for a while...it's nice to take a break and come back.
lol nah i just give up on such threads...i lose weight fine, and know how it works. Why should i worry about people who ask something and then when you try to help are as stubborn as *** and know everything better?
After all i am the one losing weight every week in a row, not them...so i let them in their own world.
done my bit, gave them the info how it works. Good enough for me
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Quote from academic paper done by two very reputable PhD's
another from same articleIn contrast to weight gain, a 10% weight loss resulted in decreased energy expenditure beyond what was expected of a 10% loss in body weight.53 Also different from weight gain, both resting and non-resting energy expenditure decreased after weight loss. With the 10% loss, the body is now more metabolically efficient, requiring less energy than before at rest, as well as expending less energy during exercise. This protects against additional weight loss.This so-called set-point theory of body weight regulation has been slowly developed over a number of years and backed by a plethora of experimental approaches.
Link to article: http://spectrum.diabetesjournals.org/content/20/3/166.full
Another academic, reputable article on European PubMed: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/6695117
So while CICO does count, numerous studies have shown that the amount of calories out changes as we lose weight and our bodies adjust our resting energy expenditure. This doesn't mean we are screwed, will never lose weight, but it does mean that the simple CICO method based on a stable BMR may not be accurate for the majority of obese people. It is able to be overcome with exercise and strict adherence to diet, but it is slow going and difficult. How is admitting that worthy of the amount of irritation and denial I am being met with here?0 -
I understand changes in BMR with loss of weight, both fat and lean muscle. What I have yet to see evidence of, is how eating more will help one lose weight or under eating would cause one to gain fat or lean muscle. Perhaps I misunderstood OP.
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Quote from academic paper done by two very reputable PhD's
another from same articleIn contrast to weight gain, a 10% weight loss resulted in decreased energy expenditure beyond what was expected of a 10% loss in body weight.53 Also different from weight gain, both resting and non-resting energy expenditure decreased after weight loss. With the 10% loss, the body is now more metabolically efficient, requiring less energy than before at rest, as well as expending less energy during exercise. This protects against additional weight loss.This so-called set-point theory of body weight regulation has been slowly developed over a number of years and backed by a plethora of experimental approaches.
Link to article: http://spectrum.diabetesjournals.org/content/20/3/166.full
Another academic, reputable article on European PubMed: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/6695117
So while CICO does count, numerous studies have shown that the amount of calories out changes as we lose weight and our bodies adjust our resting energy expenditure. This doesn't mean we are screwed, will never lose weight, but it does mean that the simple CICO method based on a stable BMR may not be accurate for the majority of obese people. It is able to be overcome with exercise and strict adherence to diet, but it is slow going and difficult. How is admitting that worthy of the amount of irritation and denial I am being met with here?
so when you know it all...why do you ask here?
You dont seem to believe any of us..who are losing weight.
Leaves thread, there is only so much closed minded i can handle.....
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Quote from academic paper done by two very reputable PhD's
another from same articleIn contrast to weight gain, a 10% weight loss resulted in decreased energy expenditure beyond what was expected of a 10% loss in body weight.53 Also different from weight gain, both resting and non-resting energy expenditure decreased after weight loss. With the 10% loss, the body is now more metabolically efficient, requiring less energy than before at rest, as well as expending less energy during exercise. This protects against additional weight loss.This so-called set-point theory of body weight regulation has been slowly developed over a number of years and backed by a plethora of experimental approaches.
Link to article: http://spectrum.diabetesjournals.org/content/20/3/166.full
Another academic, reputable article on European PubMed: http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/6695117
So while CICO does count, numerous studies have shown that the amount of calories out changes as we lose weight and our bodies adjust our resting energy expenditure. This doesn't mean we are screwed, will never lose weight, but it does mean that the simple CICO method based on a stable BMR may not be accurate for the majority of obese people. It is able to be overcome with exercise and strict adherence to diet, but it is slow going and difficult. How is admitting that worthy of the amount of irritation and denial I am being met with here?
You have derailed your own thread congrats...it is against the ToS actually to take an OP and turn the discussion into something else.
Again you asked for help as to why you weren't losing weight but again you have all the answers so have at...I am done here
but before I sign off on this here are some parts of the articles you "missed"This article does not minimize the role of personal will and commitment in achieving long-term weight loss...
<snip>
In contrast, combined with the message that long-term weight loss is difficult but achievable,
<snip>
may induce more individuals to become committed to making lasting lifestyle changes to achieve and maintain a healthy weight.
<snip>
In one study, a group of overweight women (average BMI ∼ 29 kg/m2) were kept on a low-calorie diet for a period of time until their BMI decreased to < 25 kg/m2, the defined upper range of what is considered normal weight.26
<snip>
It is unclear at present how long the larger-than-expected decrease in energy expenditure will persist after weight loss. Perhaps the body will eventually adjust to the new weight, and it will be easier to maintain the reduced weight. Indeed, some investigators have reported that, in sustained weight loss, changes in energy expenditure eventually stabilized and were not larger than expected.55,56
<snip>
In summary, regulation of body weight involves complex signaling systems and compensatory changes in appetite and metabolic efficiency. Current evidence points to the existence of a set point that makes weight loss or gain progressively difficult. However, as with most biological systems, there is likely to be an upper and a lower limit for how much metabolic efficiency can change. As long as energy expenditure exceeds that of intake, a decrease in body weight must occur. That can be stated with absolute certainty.
So basically the study you linked mainly used mice and other animals and basically said yes your BMR slows (which we all know) as you lose weight but you just have to compensate for that..
In other words...no you can't eat as much food as you used to be able to or you will regain the weight...
It doesn't prove "set point"...it actually debates it...
But like @TheOwlhouseDesigns I am out you didn't need to ask ....you read the book of all...(thinks of her 20 something son who read it too)0 -
Whatever, pointless arguing with you. A couple of you derailed MY thread by essentially getting pissy pants because I chose which poster to respond to (free country and last time I checked I had that right) and accusing me of "only hearing what I want to". That is especially funny since you, SexyStef, clearly didn't read my last post or any of my posts and took only what you needed from them to get all defensive and irritated. I saidThis doesn't mean we are screwed, will never lose weight, but it does mean that the simple CICO method based on a stable BMR may not be accurate for the majority of obese people. It is able to be overcome with exercise and strict adherence to diet, but it is slow going and difficult.
and your "come back" was the quote the article I posted THAT SAID THE EXACT SAME THING.This article does not minimize the role of personal will and commitment in achieving long-term weight loss...
<snip>
In contrast, combined with the message that long-term weight loss is difficult but achievable,
<snip>
may induce more individuals to become committed to making lasting lifestyle changes to achieve and maintain a healthy weight.
<snip>
In one study, a group of overweight women (average BMI ∼ 29 kg/m2) were kept on a low-calorie diet for a period of time until their BMI decreased to < 25 kg/m2, the defined upper range of what is considered normal weight.26
Also, nice shaming attempt. My diary is private because that is my choice, I don't care for my friends and family on here to know every bite of food I eat. How does having it open even prove accuracy anyways? I could totally mess up and say I had 1 TBSP of PB when I had 3, and someone seeing that on my open log does exactly zero to "show" that.and if you are so sure of your logging accuracy open your diary (won't hold my breath for that) because it's about more than just weighing your food...it's about consistently logging and choosing correct entries
So done with this thread. Requesting it be closed.
Thanks those of you who actually suggested ideas like Trendweight graph and shared their own approaches to weight stalling out, and reassured me that it happens sometimes without it being "bad logging". It was helpful.
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I was with you that adaptive thermogenesis probably occurs with prolonged periods of eating at a deficit (and with larger deficits). I was certainly not with you when you contemplated short periods of eating at maintenance to counteract that.
But, I just cannot even comprehend why you would pick the words "tablespoon", and "peanut butter" and put them together in a sentence that is supposed to convey that you log your food accurately.0
This discussion has been closed.
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