Not burning calories even though working out at 80% of max heart rate!!! HELP!!!

LisaJayne71

Hi everyone,
This is quite a long one so bear with me!!!
I'm a 43 yr old woman with PCOS. I've had all the symptoms since I was about 14 yrs old but was never taken seriously by doctors until I was 30 and finally was tested.
I work as a nanny and so my job is often so stressful and full on with the kinds of VIP families I work for that I don't have time for myself.
However when I can take the time I have trained on and off over the years with PT's and at the gym alone.
I did a boot camp in LA about 3 summers ago and the trainers there were flummoxed with my lack of calories I seemed to burn. This place cost me a fortune and all I lost was 14 pounds in a MONTH!!
We had to wear a HRM for 12 hours a day and we did classes from 6am - 6pm with breaks in between and then had to give our calorie burn to the trainer each morning from the day before. They set a goal for us to reach each day and no matter how much I tried to reach that goal I was always at least 1500 calories below every day.
As the trainers said, they could see how hard I was working in the classes and my PT sessions and they didn't understand why I was not burning a lot more based on my weight and height and the effort I was putting in.
It was suggested I have my thyroid tested but when I came back to the UK the private doctor I saw refused to take it seriously and made some comment along the lines of "oh everyone seems to blame the thyroid"
I mentioned the struggle I have had with my weight all my life and my PCOS but he still wouldn't take me seriously.

I've been taking the last few months off work to focus on losing weight and getting fitter but again I am having the same issues with my HR... I work out consistently between 70- 95% of my heart rate but I rarely can get above 300 calories burnt in 60 minutes which bearing in mind I am at least 27 kilos (60 pounds) overweight and sweating a lot I would expect to be burning a lot more... I know you don't burn as many calories the closer you to get to your ideal weight but I am so far from that!!!
Also, my heart rate drops incredibly quickly the minute I stop exercising... I know that is a sign of a healthy heart but for someone as overweight as I am, I would expect it to stay elevated and to be able to burn more fat...

My questions are -

Has anyone else ever had this problem or any medical experts here who have dealt with this? Anyone with PCOS? What blood tests and what kind of doctor should I be pushing to see and what tests should I be pushing to have done?!!
I want to do the best for myself I can and it's so soul destroying to be putting in so much effort and not seeing good results.

Thanks and apologies for the long message!!!!!

VintageFeline

I think you're relying on exercise far too much, working out is for fitness and general health, your caloric intake is what will determine weight loss. Are you eating at a deficit? Are you weighing and measuring everything you eat?

Also, your HRM doesn't know you have PCOS, it literally just measures your heart rate so I'm not sure what else you think is happening other than whatever you are doing just isn't a calorie burner like you think it is, 300 calories in 60 minutes bad and sweat is not an indication of work exerted necessarily.

As for testing, you can push harder but I'd address your diet first and foremost.

3dogsrunning

That isn't how a HRM works, at all. It isn't meant to be worn all day. It doesn't directly measure calories burned. The estimated calories burned would not be affected at all by any of the medical unless they affect HR.
HRMs measure HR, that's it. It doesn't know whether you have a higher or lower HR than normal or a medical condition that affects HR. It assumes you are within the average then takes the other information you provide, weight, age, sex, etc, and estimates a calorie expenditure based on steady state cardio. It also doesn't know whether your HR is elevated due to cardio exercise, or you are watching a scary movie. It assumes you are doing steady state cardio.
Factors like lower than average HR or higher will affect the accuracy. Using it for activity outside of steady state cardio will affect accuracy (it is completely inaccurate for low level activity).

300 calories in an hour of activity is perfectly reasonable amount.

kwtilbury

14 pounds in one month is significant. Look at it this way: you need to burn roughly 3,500 more calories than you consume to lose one pound. That's a deficit of almost 50,000 calories, or an average of 1,600+ a day. I'm not sure you can safely achieve a deficit greater than that in a sustainable way.

FitPhillygirl

300 calories burned in an hour seems like a reasonable amount to me as well.

cheshirecatastrophe

Agree with the others, and I will also add: you lost 14 pounds in a month. That's 3 pounds per week. That is VERY on the high end of a healthy weight loss rate for someone in your window of desired weight loss. At that point, you're burning up a significant amount of muscle instead of just fat.

Also, the "afterburn" effect--the idea that you're still burnings loads of calories when your heart rate is elevated but you're chilling out with your water bottle--is WAY overstated. It exists, but more like in the single digits of calories. I mean, you don't suddenly burn huge amounts of calories when your heart rate gets elevated during a scary scene in a movie. As the above posters have pointed out, heart rate is not calorie burn. It can be a proxy in cases of steady state cardio like running at the same speed, but definitely not for daily activity and circuit-type classes.

With PCOS, you should definitely be talking to your doctor about how to lose weight safely. You might seriously benefit from a referral to a registered dietitian (not some Internet dude), because PCOS is a metabolic syndrome that often improves by following specific dietary guidelines.

brianpperkins

I'm seeing a lot of unrealistic expectations here. 2 1/2 - 3 pounds per week lost ... not fast enough. Depending on which "max HR" formula you used, your percentages may be wildly skewed. You think you HR should stay elevated to "burn more fat" but that isn't how EPOC works.

3dogsrunning

chrisskellinton wrote: »

kwtilbury wrote: »

14 pounds in one month is significant. Look at it this way: you need to burn roughly 3,500 more calories than you consume to lose one pound. That's a deficit of almost 50,000 calories, or an average of 1,600+ a day. I'm not sure you can safely achieve a deficit greater than that in a sustainable way.

Easily sustainable until you reach your goal weight if you keep modifying your workout as you lose more weight.

14lbs a month is easily sustainable weight loss? Even once you get close to goal weight?
No, it's not.

Azdak

None of the data upon which you are basing your conclusions is accurate. HRMs are not all that accurate to begin with, and that's under ideal exercise conditions. Wearing one for 12 hours yields nothing but garbage.

There are some people who are "fast responders" to diet and exercise when it comes to weight loss, and some who are slow to respond. So if may be that you have some yet to be defined medical issues. However, I seriously doubt that your problem is "low calorie burn" with exercise. I know that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

vorgas

Personally, any place that set goals based on a HRM being worn 12 hours a day is a place I would avoid. They are clearly idiots. Any goals they may have set are totally arbitrary and meaningless. Ignore them. Look to your own results, as others have said.

BrianSharpe

You may be surprised to know that you "burn more fat" as a source of fuel while your heart-rate is relatively low than at more intense levels. Having said that it's not the fuel source that counts for weight loss but the energy balance (ie total calories in & total calories out).

What type of exercises are you doing? Obviously running (and swimming or cycling at reasonably intense efforts) would, most likely, burn more than 300 cal per hour but, personally, I burn less than that in an hour of strength training

LisaJayne71

VintageFeline wrote: »

I think you're relying on exercise far too much, working out is for fitness and general health, your caloric intake is what will determine weight loss. Are you eating at a deficit? Are you weighing and measuring everything you eat?

Also, your HRM doesn't know you have PCOS, it literally just measures your heart rate so I'm not sure what else you think is happening other than whatever you are doing just isn't a calorie burner like you think it is, 300 calories in 60 minutes bad and sweat is not an indication of work exerted necessarily.

As for testing, you can push harder but I'd address your diet first and foremost.

Yes, I'm eating at a deficit and I log everything I eat and drink. I drink 4 litres of water a day. I'm doing HIIT running on a treadmill for up to 30 mins as that is all I can manage without my legs giving way, I go to Curves 4-5 days a week for strength training and I have been using a PT a couple of times a week for an hour.
Diet alone with PCOS will not help me lose weight.. I have to do both!

LisaJayne71

3dogsrunning wrote: »

That isn't how a HRM works, at all. It isn't meant to be worn all day. It doesn't directly measure calories burned. The estimated calories burned would not be affected at all by any of the medical unless they affect HR.
HRMs measure HR, that's it. It doesn't know whether you have a higher or lower HR than normal or a medical condition that affects HR. It assumes you are within the average then takes the other information you provide, weight, age, sex, etc, and estimates a calorie expenditure based on steady state cardio. It also doesn't know whether your HR is elevated due to cardio exercise, or you are watching a scary movie. It assumes you are doing steady state cardio.
Factors like lower than average HR or higher will affect the accuracy. Using it for activity outside of steady state cardio will affect accuracy (it is completely inaccurate for low level activity).

300 calories in an hour of activity is perfectly reasonable amount.

The weight loss camp I was at had us wear them for 12 hours a day as we were exercising all day apart from lunch break (1 hour) and two 30 min drink and rest breaks in between.
I always see others on MFP who exercise less than I do, weigh around the same but burn double the calories. I know I can't push myself any harder than I do as my body just won't do it.

LisaJayne71

kwtilbury wrote: »

14 pounds in one month is significant. Look at it this way: you need to burn roughly 3,500 more calories than you consume to lose one pound. That's a deficit of almost 50,000 calories, or an average of 1,600+ a day. I'm not sure you can safely achieve a deficit greater than that in a sustainable way.

When you look at the numbers that way it seems more impressive!

LisaJayne71

cheshirecatastrophe wrote: »

Agree with the others, and I will also add: you lost 14 pounds in a month. That's 3 pounds per week. That is VERY on the high end of a healthy weight loss rate for someone in your window of desired weight loss. At that point, you're burning up a significant amount of muscle instead of just fat.

Also, the "afterburn" effect--the idea that you're still burnings loads of calories when your heart rate is elevated but you're chilling out with your water bottle--is WAY overstated. It exists, but more like in the single digits of calories. I mean, you don't suddenly burn huge amounts of calories when your heart rate gets elevated during a scary scene in a movie. As the above posters have pointed out, heart rate is not calorie burn. It can be a proxy in cases of steady state cardio like running at the same speed, but definitely not for daily activity and circuit-type classes.

With PCOS, you should definitely be talking to your doctor about how to lose weight safely. You might seriously benefit from a referral to a registered dietitian (not some Internet dude), because PCOS is a metabolic syndrome that often improves by following specific dietary guidelines.

I didn't realise that about the afterburn.. I was under the impression you can burn a lot more for up to 12 hours after.
The problem with doctors and PCOS is that they seem to have absolutely no clue for helping with exercise for PCOS. All advice given by GP's and even endocrinologists is very sketchy and they seem to be grasping at straws using vague suggestions.
I have seen a registered dietitian in the past that I was sent to by my GP and she was worse than useless. Had no idea what PCOS was and kept suggesting I eat foods that even I knew were high GI and high carb and therefore not good for me. I walked out of the appointment.
I need to try and find a better one!

LisaJayne71

chrisskellinton wrote: »

300 cals of any intense workout (80% HR) isn't that great unless you are just walking or doing something modified. Especially if you are quite a bit overweight. I look to burn that in at least 25/30 minute workout but I do more intensive programs.

Which is what I think too. At the weight I am and working out hard I am expecting to have burnt a lot more... which is what the PT's in LA and also here in Glasgow have all said too.

TavistockToad

How is losing 14lbs in a month a bad thing?

LisaJayne71

3dogsrunning wrote: »

chrisskellinton wrote: »

kwtilbury wrote: »

14 pounds in one month is significant. Look at it this way: you need to burn roughly 3,500 more calories than you consume to lose one pound. That's a deficit of almost 50,000 calories, or an average of 1,600+ a day. I'm not sure you can safely achieve a deficit greater than that in a sustainable way.

Easily sustainable until you reach your goal weight if you keep modifying your workout as you lose more weight.

14lbs a month is easily sustainable weight loss? Even once you get close to goal weight?
No, it's not.

But I'm not even close to goal! If I were I wouldn't be expecting a big loss like that but with 60 pounds still to be at the heaviest I'd be happy with then I'm a long way off!

LisaJayne71

Azdak wrote: »

None of the data upon which you are basing your conclusions is accurate. HRMs are not all that accurate to begin with, and that's under ideal exercise conditions. Wearing one for 12 hours yields nothing but garbage.

There are some people who are "fast responders" to diet and exercise when it comes to weight loss, and some who are slow to respond. So if may be that you have some yet to be defined medical issues. However, I seriously doubt that your problem is "low calorie burn" with exercise. I know that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

I was under the impression that a HRM with a chest strap was pretty accurate compared to others?
I am obviously one of the slow responders and without a doubt I think I have underlying medical issues but I don't know where to start or which kind of doctor to go to... I'm fed up being fobbed off by GP's

LisaJayne71

vorgas wrote: »

Personally, any place that set goals based on a HRM being worn 12 hours a day is a place I would avoid. They are clearly idiots. Any goals they may have set are totally arbitrary and meaningless. Ignore them. Look to your own results, as others have said.

It was a weight loss/boot camp in the USA with qualified instructors, chefs, dietitian...

MeanderingMammal

LisaJayne71 wrote: »

The weight loss camp I was at had us wear them for 12 hours a day as we were exercising all day apart from lunch break (1 hour) and two 30 min drink and rest breaks in between.

In that case it sounds like they were using them for things that they're not designed for, your comment about 12 hour afterburn would support that they didn't know what they were on about. I hope they didn't con you out of too much cash

Your results are ok, but weight loss is as simple as calories in vs calories out. PCOS is a collection of related conditions that aren't well understood, hence the difficulty getting meaningful advice from a GP. Notwithstanding that, the physics still works as it should.

Concentrate on your calorie deficit, train to help your health from both a cardiovascular and lean mass perspective. That means eating in deficit, doing CV work and doing some resistance work. I'd also suggest moderating your expectations about rate of loss, as 3lbs per week is very aggressive and may be couterproductive in the longer term.

jemhh

I'm sorry if I missed it but I don't think you've mentioned how much you are eating. As in, how many calories are you eating?

I have PCOS. I have lost around 55 pounds. Women with PCOS, whether or not they are insulin resistant, have lower BMRs than women without PCOS. In general, exercise is not mandatory in order to lose weight since you can create a caloric deficit by reducing what you eat. However, with a lower BMR, weight loss is easier/more sustainable when you add in exercise. This is because you get to eat a bit more when you exercise (the MFP method calls for eating exercise calories), which means that you are going to be more comfortable through the process. For me, HIIT increases my appetite to an extent to where the extra calories it earns me are too few to make up for it. So I focus on walking and easy running as far as cardio goes. Right now I lift weights 4x/wk and then do cardio 3x/wk.

TavistockToad

LisaJayne71 wrote: »

Azdak wrote: »

None of the data upon which you are basing your conclusions is accurate. HRMs are not all that accurate to begin with, and that's under ideal exercise conditions. Wearing one for 12 hours yields nothing but garbage.

There are some people who are "fast responders" to diet and exercise when it comes to weight loss, and some who are slow to respond. So if may be that you have some yet to be defined medical issues. However, I seriously doubt that your problem is "low calorie burn" with exercise. I know that doesn't make it any less frustrating.

I was under the impression that a HRM with a chest strap was pretty accurate compared to others?
I am obviously one of the slow responders and without a doubt I think I have underlying medical issues but I don't know where to start or which kind of doctor to go to... I'm fed up being fobbed off by GP's

To be very honest, you sound impatient, it doesn't sound like you have underlying medical problems.

Do some reading up on weight loss - there's a lot of info on here - and adjust your expectations. With 60lbs to lose, losing 14lbs in a month is VERY good.

TavistockToad

.

mommyof4cpa

I have never achieved a 14lb weight loss in a month - ever. I am far more overweight than you and older than you and I don't have PCOS or thyroid issues. What I have learned is that I am one of those special snowflakes for whom this weight lost and quest for health journey will just be difficult than the average person.

OP - Get a new dr that will test your thyroid. Make sure it is a full thyroid panel (not just a TSH). Try the website "stop the thyroid madness" for one opinion on what constitutes a full panel. If anything, it will rule something in or out.

LisaJayne71

BrianSharpe wrote: »

You may be surprised to know that you "burn more fat" as a source of fuel while your heart-rate is relatively low than at more intense levels. Having said that it's not the fuel source that counts for weight loss but the energy balance (ie total calories in & total calories out).

What type of exercises are you doing? Obviously running (and swimming or cycling at reasonably intense efforts) would, most likely, burn more than 300 cal per hour but, personally, I burn less than that in an hour of strength training

I do HIIT running 30 secs on/ 30 secs off for up to 30 minutes or until I feel like my legs will give way. I do this on an empty stomach having just had water. I then have breakfast, and go to Curves gym where I do 30 minutes of strength training 4-5 days a week and stretch.
2 days a week at the moment I have a PT session as well for an hour where I am doing a mixture of cardio and intense strength training too.

jemhh

I guess I am not seeing a need for thyroid tests or blood panels. OP lost 14 pounds in a month. That is nothing to sneeze at. I don't see any indication of a medical problem causing her weight loss to be more difficult than anybody else's.

People really make things more difficult than they are. You don't have to futz around with your heart rate or wearing an HRM 12 hours a day. Weigh/measure/accurately estimate your food. Log it accurately. Add in exercise if you'd like. Create a caloric deficit. Lose weight.

Serah87

OP how many calories are you eating????

LisaJayne71

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

LisaJayne71 wrote: »

The weight loss camp I was at had us wear them for 12 hours a day as we were exercising all day apart from lunch break (1 hour) and two 30 min drink and rest breaks in between.

In that case it sounds like they were using them for things that they're not designed for, your comment about 12 hour afterburn would support that they didn't know what they were on about. I hope they didn't con you out of too much cash

Your results are ok, but weight loss is as simple as calories in vs calories out. PCOS is a collection of related conditions that aren't well understood, hence the difficulty getting meaningful advice from a GP. Notwithstanding that, the physics still works as it should.

Concentrate on your calorie deficit, train to help your health from both a cardiovascular and lean mass perspective. That means eating in deficit, doing CV work and doing some resistance work. I'd also suggest moderating your expectations about rate of loss, as 3lbs per week is very aggressive and may be couterproductive in the longer term.

£10,000 and I did feel totally conned out of the cash.. however other people did lose loads of weight... mainly men who didn't have PCOS!! I was upfront with them about my condition before I went and they promised they could help me as they knew what they were doing... anyway.. that was 3 years ago now and I've dealt with that! I'm just trying to move forwards now and find the best help I can to lose the weight!

TavistockToad

LisaJayne71 wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

LisaJayne71 wrote: »

The weight loss camp I was at had us wear them for 12 hours a day as we were exercising all day apart from lunch break (1 hour) and two 30 min drink and rest breaks in between.

In that case it sounds like they were using them for things that they're not designed for, your comment about 12 hour afterburn would support that they didn't know what they were on about. I hope they didn't con you out of too much cash

Your results are ok, but weight loss is as simple as calories in vs calories out. PCOS is a collection of related conditions that aren't well understood, hence the difficulty getting meaningful advice from a GP. Notwithstanding that, the physics still works as it should.

Concentrate on your calorie deficit, train to help your health from both a cardiovascular and lean mass perspective. That means eating in deficit, doing CV work and doing some resistance work. I'd also suggest moderating your expectations about rate of loss, as 3lbs per week is very aggressive and may be couterproductive in the longer term.

£10,000 and I did feel totally conned out of the cash.. however other people did lose loads of weight... mainly men who didn't have PCOS!! I was upfront with them about my condition before I went and they promised they could help me as they knew what they were doing... anyway.. that was 3 years ago now and I've dealt with that! I'm just trying to move forwards now and find the best help I can to lose the weight!

10k?! :huh: *kitten* me!

999tigger

How many threads did you open on this subject? Am sure posters addressed the points this morning.

300 cals in an hour imo is lowish, but it depends on what you are doing as well as intensity , duration and your weight. As am sure I said if its not continuous, then the amount will be lower.

To burn significant calories in the gym requires you to do a significant amount of exercise. Its an option to go less intense, but for longer. One thing i failed to take into account this morning is that the 80% heart rate might have just as much to do with your level of fitness. What toad said but am sure it was all said on the other thread.