Increasing speed

jb290978

Just finished my first half marathon in 2:37. Yes its slow but before January i had not done hardly any exercise for the last 19 years and could barely run 2 mile.

Signed up for the same one next year and really want to concentrate on improving speed aiming for a sub 2 hours.
I know to do interval and tempo runs etc but whats the best way to train for a specific time. How would i decide on training pace etc.

Was thinking of an easy recovery run, interval day and a long run around 5 miles with a buit in tempo in the middle and mixing the long runs up ie. 5 mile 1 week, 8 the next etc

Any advice please

bwogilvie

If you're thinking of three runs a week, you might take a look at Bill Pierce, et al., Runner's World Run Less, Run Faster. He and his colleagues at Furman's running research institute have developed a plan that involves three weekly runs—one interval run, one tempo run, and one long run—plus 2-3 days of cross training for general aerobic fitness. They claim that it produces good results with less likelihood of injury than a plan involve 4-6 days of running. There's less easy recovery in their plan than in others, but that's because the cross-training days promote recovery. You can also look at Hal Higdon's online plans if you want a more traditional 4-6 day per week plan.

As far as pace, you have a year to go, so it doesn't make sense to pick your pace now based on your sub-2-hour goal. What might make sense would be to use a rate predictor to figure out your current 5K and 10K equivalent paces for your 2:37 half, and set a training target of 15 seconds per mile faster than your current 10K pace. Do that for a couple months, then do a 5K race and see how you do (and what the half-marathon equivalent is). If you beat your target pace, start training for 15 seconds per mile faster than it.

I'm far from an expert, but since you have nearly a year, I would focus for the first six months on speed, not distance, maybe using a 10K training plan, and then shift your focus to distance as you get closer to the event.

Note that a 2:37 half is equivalent to an 11:00 pace in the 5K; a 2:00 half is an 8:24 5K pace. That's not an impossible improvement to achieve for a new runner, but it will take work and determination.

gdyment

I will give you the counter advice. At 2:00+ with only 5 months of running history, you have no running base to speak of. Speedwork/Tempo/Fartleks/Sprints are icing on the cake. You have no cake.

Look at your weekly miles (the real avg not the "one time I ran 30 miles a week") and set the goal to increase that over the next 8 months. Run whatever pace is comfortable - probably 12-13 min miles if you feel that HM was a good effort. Goal is to increase your real weekly avg to whatever your real life and goals can handle. Once you're hitting 40-50 miles a week, then the speed stuff will come into play - or 10-12 weeks out from your race you can start a more targeted plan.

But really, you will drop 30+ minutes by just running more and reaping the physiological adaptations that come along with it. The older (and bigger) you are, the more this applies.

jb290978

Thanks guys. Still confused. I have a runner friend who has done marathons and running for 20 years. She says concentrate on speed with long run no more than 8 miles. ... But have also researched that a lot of people who run a sub 2 hour can also run 5k in around 26 minutes and where training over 30 miles a week for their half.

It's hard to see what's best.

jb290978

Just had a look at the run less run faster. Looks good. May do them all. 5k program to keep up fitness and improve 5k time and work up to the 10k program. 16 weeks before the race start the half marathon program which will increase weekly mileage. Long runs go up to 15 miles which is what I wanted to do.

Add in a few 5k and 10 k races along the way to see how I'm improving.

scottb81

Run more. My first HM at age 53 I ran in 1:35 by running 6 to 7 days a week, about 60 to 70 mi a week most of the time. Most of that was easy running around 90 sec to 2 min slower than my HM pace. Long runs were with a group and were 4 min per mile slower than HM pace. It took about a year of training to get there.

Honestly, I probably ran too much for that stage of my fitness, BUT it does show that the key to improvement is lots of relatively easy miles and not some super secret formula of workout sessions.

TavistockToad

I was told that the best way to run quicker was to be able to run further... slowly increase your weekly mileage, and you will find that your long run time will get quicker.

the long distance runners group has a lot of really knowledgeable people on it, maybe ask the question there for some specific training ideas?

fbinsc

I think the key training run would be the long run rather than intervals. In fact interval training might net you comparatively little gain. There are many free training programs out there that will give you specific training per day based upon your goal and current ability. There is an app called run trainer that goes with the map my run app that will do this. It will give you an ok basic plan. I'm getting back into running and use the run trainer app. Consider joining a local running club where you can get advice from local runners and go on training runs with other people.

fbinsc

jb290978 wrote: »

Thanks guys. Still confused. I have a runner friend who has done marathons and running for 20 years. She says concentrate on speed with long run no more than 8 miles. ... .

That advice your would have you doing a death march by Mile 16. She might be a frenemy. Definitely unorthodox advice. Check sites like runners world and cool running. I think both have forums where you can find help and support as well.

MeanderingMammal

jb290978 wrote: »

I have a runner friend who has done marathons and running for 20 years. She says concentrate on speed with long run no more than 8 miles.

For an experienced runner maintaining base mileage that makes sense. Not really appropriate for a new runner approaching the earlier events though.

... But have also researched that a lot of people who run a sub 2 hour can also run 5k in around 26 minutes and where training over 30 miles a week for their half.

Training for a decent performance in the half will lead to a good time in the 5K. It's not analogous the other way round.

yusaku02

This is just my own personal experience but I've found it to be helpful to do all my training at near race pace. I've never done interval training, I just go out hard for the entirety of the run, whether it's 5 miles or 15.
I've never run a half marathon but I did run a full marathon last year and my half split was 1:34:20 so I feel my training method was quite effective for helping me get a decent time (especially considering I had a freak knee injury that caused me to stop running for 2 weeks in the final month before the marathon). Anyways training my way definitely isn't for everyone so you'll need to determine what's best for you.

Mr_Knight

jb290978 wrote: »

Just had a look at the run less run faster. Looks good. May do them all. 5k program to keep up fitness and improve 5k time and work up to the 10k program. 16 weeks before the race start the half marathon program which will increase weekly mileage. Long runs go up to 15 miles which is what I wanted to do.

Add in a few 5k and 10 k races along the way to see how I'm improving.

If the goal is to improve at a half marathon distance, I'm not sure that's going to work well for you. Physiological changes needed for speed take time - starting to increase mileage just 16 weeks out from an event isn't going to give your body that needed time.

And it seems like you have the relationship backwards - training at 5k won't speed up your half - training at half will speed up your 5k.

mwyvr

jb290978 wrote: »

Any advice please

How much have you been running over the past two months? How many miles on average a week, how many runs on average a week?

rybo

gdyment wrote: »

I will give you the counter advice. At 2:00+ with only 5 months of running history, you have no running base to speak of. Speedwork/Tempo/Fartleks/Sprints are icing on the cake. You have no cake.

Look at your weekly miles (the real avg not the "one time I ran 30 miles a week") and set the goal to increase that over the next 8 months. Run whatever pace is comfortable - probably 12-13 min miles if you feel that HM was a good effort. Goal is to increase your real weekly avg to whatever your real life and goals can handle. Once you're hitting 40-50 miles a week, then the speed stuff will come into play - or 10-12 weeks out from your race you can start a more targeted plan.

But really, you will drop 30+ minutes by just running more and reaping the physiological adaptations that come along with it. The older (and bigger) you are, the more this applies.

Pretty much this. Just build your weekly mileage up and your time will come down. Then you can worry about specifics

jb290978

mwyvr wrote: »

jb290978 wrote: »

Any advice please

How much have you been running over the past two months? How many miles on average a week, how many runs on average a week?

Thanks. All good advice. Last 2 months I've been doing 3 days a week. Roughly a 3 mile easy run, a 3 mile tempo and a long run increasing a mile a week. 2 weeks before the race I probably peaked at 22 miles for the week with my long run at 13 miles. Early February I was probably doing about 10 and worked my up so averaging around 15/16 a week overall.

I can not run 5 days a week due to work commitments. 3 days is a struggle but I make it work.