My big debate - can you help?
saramichelle89
Posts: 65 Member
Question!
Eating for fat loss is much different than eating for muscle gain due to the caloric deficit/intake I know you can't do both at the same time, or so I have heard. But can you? Is there a way to train and eat for optimal muscle growth AND fat loss simultaneously? I want to lose fat in my stomach, legs and arms. But I want an overall muscular physique with lots of muscular definition. What have you been told? Any help? There are so many meal plans online to follow I don't know where to start.
Thanks!
Eating for fat loss is much different than eating for muscle gain due to the caloric deficit/intake I know you can't do both at the same time, or so I have heard. But can you? Is there a way to train and eat for optimal muscle growth AND fat loss simultaneously? I want to lose fat in my stomach, legs and arms. But I want an overall muscular physique with lots of muscular definition. What have you been told? Any help? There are so many meal plans online to follow I don't know where to start.
Thanks!
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Replies
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You can gain muscle while losing fat.
It's called a recomp...
Basically you eat just below or at maintenance while doing a progressive load lifting program and getting in enough protein.
It takes a while but it can be done.
I plan on doing just that after I get down a few more pounds as I can't mentally purposefully gain weight...not yet anyway.0 -
saramichelle89 wrote: »I know you can't do both at the same time, or so I have heard. But can you? Is there a way to train and eat for optimal muscle growth AND fat loss simultaneously?
The 'you can't do both at the same time' generally refers to those who want to do both AND lose overall weight. You can recomp as Stef said, but that is eating pretty much at maintenance calories.
There's a thread on the maintaining weight board about recomps you may find informative:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10177803/recomposition-maintaining-weight-while-losing-fat
As Stef said - it's a VERY slow process. Alternatively you can run cut/bulk cycles, which tends to be a quicker way to shape your body, but can be more of a mental challenge to have to keep changing eating habits depending on whether you're cutting or bulking.0 -
I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?0
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I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?
Increases in strength are not the same as increases in muscle growth (mass growth).
You can do the former without the latter.0 -
I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?
you are probably not building muscle...you are at a deficit thereby it's hard to build muscle...almost...impossible. There are those who are obese, returning, new to lifting or teen age boys who can yes but those are minimal gains and are short lived.
Strength<>muscle growth.0 -
Yes it is possible, but according to your profile, you are not close to your goal weight yet, so you have some time until you are ready for maintenance. For now, it would make more sense to lose weight, while starting to strenght train.0
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A slow recomp is going to be easier to maintain and does work, but is a very slow process, as stated above. If you're looking for rapid fat loss/muscle gain, then the tried-and-true bulk/cut is the way to go.0
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I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?
you are probably not building muscle...you are at a deficit thereby it's hard to build muscle...almost...impossible. There are those who are obese, returning, new to lifting or teen age boys who can yes but those are minimal gains and are short lived.
Strength<>muscle growth.
I will say, my weight loss has been rather slow. Like 18 pounds over a total of 6 months of trying. I think I must be building muscle. I see it! I am stronger! Perhaps if I wasn't lifting the weight loss via the absolute scale number would be faster.
But, whatever. I like how I look now. My before-and-after pictures are really telling in that regard.
I am a fan of weight lifting, but I really don't understand this mutually exclusive fat loss/muscle building dichotomy. Again, I'm not trying to suggest I'm special, but I do feel like I'm experiencing both. In a good way.
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You can gain strength without gaining muscle.I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?
you are probably not building muscle...you are at a deficit thereby it's hard to build muscle...almost...impossible. There are those who are obese, returning, new to lifting or teen age boys who can yes but those are minimal gains and are short lived.
Strength<>muscle growth.
I will say, my weight loss has been rather slow. Like 18 pounds over a total of 6 months of trying. I think I must be building muscle. I see it! I am stronger! Perhaps if I wasn't lifting the weight loss via the absolute scale number would be faster.
But, whatever. I like how I look now. My before-and-after pictures are really telling in that regard.
I am a fan of weight lifting, but I really don't understand this mutually exclusive fat loss/muscle building dichotomy. Again, I'm not trying to suggest I'm special, but I do feel like I'm experiencing both. In a good way.
If you've lost fat, the muscle you have will likely be more visible. My upper arms, for example, are smaller than when I was heavy but they look bigger and the muscles are significantly more defined.
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I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?
you are probably not building muscle...you are at a deficit thereby it's hard to build muscle...almost...impossible. There are those who are obese, returning, new to lifting or teen age boys who can yes but those are minimal gains and are short lived.
Strength<>muscle growth.
I will say, my weight loss has been rather slow. Like 18 pounds over a total of 6 months of trying. I think I must be building muscle. I see it! I am stronger! Perhaps if I wasn't lifting the weight loss via the absolute scale number would be faster.
But, whatever. I like how I look now. My before-and-after pictures are really telling in that regard.
I am a fan of weight lifting, but I really don't understand this mutually exclusive fat loss/muscle building dichotomy. Again, I'm not trying to suggest I'm special, but I do feel like I'm experiencing both. In a good way.
3 lbs per month isn't particularly slow, unless you're significantly overweight. That's about .75 lbs per week, which is a perfectly healthy and normal rate of loss.
Sorry...you're not building significant muscle mass eating at a deficit over 6 months though. What you are seeing is primarily the uncovering of the muscle that was already there but covered by a layer of fat.
What you 'think' and what you 'feel' don't override that.
Don't get me wrong though...I don't doubt that you look and feel better. Congrats on the loss so far!
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Some have posted that you can do both with a kind of intermittent diet. Eat at or just above maintenance on heavy lifting days and then lower on other days. Although I don't focus on which days I'm doing this to a certain extent and it seems to be working. But I'm basically a beginner too. So we will see over time. This is one option though.0
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What you 'think' and what you 'feel' don't override that.
Don't get me wrong though...I don't doubt that you look and feel better. Congrats on the loss so far!
[/quote]
Started benching 3 sets of 10 at 70 pounds, which was a struggle on the last few reps. Yesterday I did three sets of 10 at 100. That is almost a 50% increase in weight I am able to lift on bench. You're saying there isn't any muscle growth to account for that?0 -
I'm trying slow recomp at the mo
Though to be honest I'm quite happy ATM so don't really have huge objectives0 -
It is quite unlikely that there's any significant muscle growth.vinerie wrote:Started benching 3 sets of 10 at 70 pounds, which was a struggle on the last few reps. Yesterday I did three sets of 10 at 100. That is almost a 50% increase in weight I am able to lift on bench. You're saying there isn't any muscle growth to account for that?
As a beginner, you can lift a lot more weight via more efficient neural connections, etc. without more muscle.
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I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?
you are probably not building muscle...you are at a deficit thereby it's hard to build muscle...almost...impossible. There are those who are obese, returning, new to lifting or teen age boys who can yes but those are minimal gains and are short lived.
Strength<>muscle growth.
I will say, my weight loss has been rather slow. Like 18 pounds over a total of 6 months of trying. I think I must be building muscle. I see it! I am stronger! Perhaps if I wasn't lifting the weight loss via the absolute scale number would be faster.
But, whatever. I like how I look now. My before-and-after pictures are really telling in that regard.
I am a fan of weight lifting, but I really don't understand this mutually exclusive fat loss/muscle building dichotomy. Again, I'm not trying to suggest I'm special, but I do feel like I'm experiencing both. In a good way.
more than likely a combination of the following;
1. newbie gains
2. water retention making muscle appear bigger
3. loss of body fat making existing muscle show more..
4. strength gains, which do not equal muscle gains.0 -
OP - if you have a lot of fat to lose I would suggest getting down to your goal weight and goa body fat %...once you have accomplished that you can pick one of the following:
bulk/cut cycles
recomp
if you still have high body fat then, IMO, you are going to be spinning your wheels.
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I'm glad you posted this question as I am curious myself. I eat at a deficit and have been lifting heavy weights for about 3 months now. I am losing weight. I am gaining muscle. I know this because the scale is going down, I am losing inches, and I can lift more than I can when I started (like, a lot more, which indicates muscle improvement/growth). But so many people say you can't lose weight and build muscle at the same time. Am I just a special snowflake or what?
you are probably not building muscle...you are at a deficit thereby it's hard to build muscle...almost...impossible. There are those who are obese, returning, new to lifting or teen age boys who can yes but those are minimal gains and are short lived.
Strength<>muscle growth.
I will say, my weight loss has been rather slow. Like 18 pounds over a total of 6 months of trying. I think I must be building muscle. I see it! I am stronger! Perhaps if I wasn't lifting the weight loss via the absolute scale number would be faster.
But, whatever. I like how I look now. My before-and-after pictures are really telling in that regard.
I am a fan of weight lifting, but I really don't understand this mutually exclusive fat loss/muscle building dichotomy. Again, I'm not trying to suggest I'm special, but I do feel like I'm experiencing both. In a good way.
No I am not trying to diminish what you have accomplished either but I know form lifting for 2 years and going from benching 45lbs to 130lbs that I haven't gained much muscle...if any.
I did eat at maintenance for 9 months and lifted so I might have gained a bit but nothing amazing.
But that being said when I flex it's very visible...very visible...I like how I look and love lifting as well but also have read a lot.
If you are eating at a deficit large enough to lose 18lbs in 3months how are you building anything? You need supplies to build stuff...for example a house...you can't build it without wood, nails etc. And that is what extra calories do for building muscle...but in a deficit there are no extra...in actual fact you are in a negative...so nope except for noob gains (which are short lived and measured in oz)...nada.0 -
Started benching 3 sets of 10 at 70 pounds, which was a struggle on the last few reps. Yesterday I did three sets of 10 at 100. That is almost a 50% increase in weight I am able to lift on bench. You're saying there isn't any muscle growth to account for that?
Correct.
Your muscles are being trained to be more efficient and move more weight. Again - this is a good thing, don't think I'm discounting your progress. But eating a caloric deficit is not going to give your body what it needs to build actual new muscle mass.
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