Steam room dilemma

MeanderingMammal

MamaBirdBoss wrote: »

She was TRYING to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and not just label him a "creeper.".

She did both, and characterised a fairly common condition as not normal and potential threat. Bluntly, that's a pretty offensive assumption.

The man was inappropriate. A 57year old who doesn't have the nous to go and speak to the duty manager, but instead comes onto a forum to ask for advice might well be demonstrating ASD related behaviours herself.

The described behaviour appears inappropriate. Deal with that rather than projecting ones own prejudices onto the other individual.

That said, I'm making my own assumptions about the originator, based on the narrative, which in itself influences my own response. One might consider that in light of TA as well, I know I do.

Mr_Knight

MamaBirdBoss wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

rileyes wrote: »

By the way, not a hard syndrome to recognize

It does depend where on the spectrum someone is. Social anxiety, lower ability to pick up social cues, unsophisticated use of language could be indicators, or could just be indicators of lower educational level, or lower achievement.

Given the numbers of people who demonstrate ASD characteristics it can be difficult. What ASD doesn't offer is an opportunity for someone to project their own social anxieties onto others. The whole description reads like a Transactional Analysis case study.

She was TRYING to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and not just label him a "creeper."

Not buying it - not when the story suddenly changed to the guy fiddling with his junk.

From what's been shared, IMO there's a whole lot of OP projecting going on here...

rileyes

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

rileyes wrote: »

By the way, not a hard syndrome to recognize

It does depend where on the spectrum someone is. Social anxiety, lower ability to pick up social cues, unsophisticated use of language could be indicators, or could just be indicators of lower educational level, or lower achievement.

Given the numbers of people who demonstrate ASD characteristics it can be difficult. What ASD doesn't offer is an opportunity for someone to project their own social anxieties onto others. The whole description reads like a Transactional Analysis case study.

Or a high-functioning college educated (city planner and city planning commissioner) with high intelligence/language and low social skills/abilities.

tomatoey

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

The man was inappropriate. A 57year old who doesn't have the nous to go and speak to the duty manager, but instead comes onto a forum to ask for advice might well be demonstrating ASD related behaviours herself.

Putting the whole question of ASD to one side, women (of all ages!) often struggle with asserting themselves in the face of unwanted behaviour from men, because of the strong pressure to be polite/nice and to smooth things over, to work towards social harmony at a cost to one's own comfort. There's a lifetime of training that goes into that - it becomes instinctive for most women. We tolerate petty sexism and harrassment all the time, also because calling out every instance would be tiring and isn't always worth the costs (e.g. in job settings), and it often leads to a backlash.

More often, we just leave a situation that is uncomfortable or that feels threatening, because that's the lowest-cost option in terms of the other person's possible responses, judgements from others, etc. Except the cost is often that we lose out on that experience. (Is that fair?)

Someone above suggested saying, "your questions make me uncomfortable and I need you to stop". I think it's the right sort of thing to say (regardless of what's going on with the intrusive person asking unwanted questions). But that kind of thing is extremely hard to say!

So here the OP believes the person bothering her has ASD. That belief amps up the pressure OP feels to be polite and makes it harder to address her discomfort directly. Because she's supposed to be nice anyway, right, and if the person bothering her does have ASD, being uncomfortable and wanting to do something about it might make her look like an especially not- nice person, right? I'll say that it's especially hard to be understanding about behaviour that is directed at one's body or sexuality, I think some people are not getting this. (That's if he's on the spectrum and graciousness is called for. Although even then, I don't see how establishing boundaries is a bad or mean thing. If he's not on the spectrum, she'd be within her rights to just call him a jerk. And if he is a garden-variety jerk - well you wouldn't bother "talking things out" with a jerk, would you? You'd just report him straight away. Or leave. So anyway there are lots of reasons OP might feel conflicted.)



Also, @MeanderingMammal - what were you meaning to do by suggesting the OP has ASD herself? Were you meaning to use that as a kind of insult?

slaite1

tomatoey wrote: »

MeanderingMammal wrote: »

The man was inappropriate. A 57year old who doesn't have the nous to go and speak to the duty manager, but instead comes onto a forum to ask for advice might well be demonstrating ASD related behaviours herself.

Putting the whole question of ASD to one side, women (of all ages!) often struggle with asserting themselves in the face of unwanted behaviour from men, because of the strong pressure to be polite/nice and to smooth things over, to work towards social harmony at a cost to one's own comfort. There's a lifetime of training that goes into that - it becomes instinctive for most women. We tolerate petty sexism and harrassment all the time, also because calling out every instance would be tiring and isn't always worth the costs (e.g. in job settings), and it often leads to a backlash.

More often, we just leave a situation that is uncomfortable or that feels threatening, because that's the lowest-cost option in terms of the other person's possible responses, judgements from others, etc. Except the cost is often that we lose out on that experience. (Is that fair?)

Someone above suggested saying, "your questions make me uncomfortable and I need you to stop". I think it's the right sort of thing to say (regardless of what's going on with the intrusive person asking unwanted questions). But that kind of thing is extremely hard to say!

So here the OP believes the person bothering her has ASD. That belief amps up the pressure OP feels to be polite and makes it harder to address her discomfort directly. Because she's supposed to be nice anyway, right, and if the person bothering her does have ASD, being uncomfortable and wanting to do something about it might make her look like an especially not- nice person, right? I'll say that it's especially hard to be understanding about behaviour that is directed at one's body or sexuality, I think some people are not getting this. (That's if he's on the spectrum and graciousness is called for. Although even then, I don't see how establishing boundaries is a bad or mean thing. If he's not on the spectrum, she'd be within her rights to just call him a jerk. And if he is a garden-variety jerk - well you wouldn't bother "talking things out" with a jerk, would you? You'd just report him straight away. Or leave. So anyway there are lots of reasons OP might feel conflicted.)



Also, @MeanderingMammal - what were you meaning to do by suggesting the OP has ASD herself? Were you meaning to use that as a kind of insult?

Well said

MeanderingMammal

tomatoey wrote: »

what were you meaning to do by suggesting the OP has ASD herself? Were you meaning to use that as a kind of insult?

Read what I said.

There are a wide range of behaviours that might be indicative of some form of ASD. These can include limited language skills, limited ability to communicate concepts and ideas, lack of empathy, inability to read reactions in others, unwillingness to challenge behaviours in others, limited ability to express challenge in a meaningful way. These behaviours are neither unique to ASD, nor particularly unusual in some areas of the UK.

The originator is expressing her assumptions about someone else based on his behaviours. Nothing that she's said points exclusively to ASD, and indeed there are more likely explanations subject to where in the country she's referring to.

What I was drawing attention to was that her description of her own behaviour ticks just as many boxes for an assessment of ASD as anything she's said in her prior posts. As you indicate, there may be mitigation for that, particularly in the originators demographic.

Given that I've already indicated that her suggestion of ASD based on her assumptions is offensive, do you really think that I'd use a reciprocal suggestion as an insult? If I was intending to be insulting it would be fairly explicit, and I wouldn't recite the same prejudiced nonsense that I've just called out the originator on.