Heart Rate Monitors and BMR
doodletoodles
Posts: 9 Member
Hey all. I've looked in the forums for a similar discussion but couldn't find a satisfactory answer (at least not one where it didn't look like someone was shooting from the hip). If the question has been asked before and beat to death ... I'm so so sorry. Just guide me to the right place please.
I have a Polar chest strap heart rate monitor that I use to estimate calorie burn for walking at a consistent speed (usually 3.5 mph). My question: is the calorie burn number from my HRM my total calorie burn for the exercise period? Or is it just what I burned for doing the exercise? In other words, is it already adjusting for my BMR for the time I was exercising?
I'm afraid my BMR is getting counted twice when I log my calories burned from my HRM.
Thanks in advance.
I have a Polar chest strap heart rate monitor that I use to estimate calorie burn for walking at a consistent speed (usually 3.5 mph). My question: is the calorie burn number from my HRM my total calorie burn for the exercise period? Or is it just what I burned for doing the exercise? In other words, is it already adjusting for my BMR for the time I was exercising?
I'm afraid my BMR is getting counted twice when I log my calories burned from my HRM.
Thanks in advance.
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Replies
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It's separate from your BMR. which app and device are you using to get your heart rate? I have the V800, and it separates training/activity/bmr calories.0
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ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »It's separate from your BMR. which app and device are you using to get your heart rate? I have the V800, and it separates training/activity/bmr calories.
No app. Just the Polar FT4 chest strap heart rate monitor.0 -
The FT4 includes BMR.
For walking slowly, you'll get more discrimination between BMR and exercise calories by using an app like Runkeeper or Endomondo. Body mass and distance are the primary data in that circumstance.0 -
While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.0 -
These devices include more than Just BMR, they included maintenance cals. The reason, MFP calculates maintenance cals and exercise to that, the base is not BMR, and you would burn more than BMR if you sat on the couch and watched TV instead of exercising.
So you will have to back out maintenance cals, not just BMR cals, for the time period you perform the exercise. otherwise MFP will double count those cals. If you only back out BMR MFP would double count the difference between BMR and maintenance, which if sedenatry and you workout is short will not be a big deal. but if you are active and your exercise is 2+ hours, could make a large difference..0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Are you sure about the Polar not including total cals burned during the duration of activity (BMR+activity cals)?? My understanding is that all Polars show total cals burned for the duration of exercise.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
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ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
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ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
So each of the three categories of expenditure are estimated in different ways. Many people here, including myself, use BMR when they mean BMR+maintenance.
BMR is a function of height, weight, gender, body composition etc and is approximated by MFP based on the metrics that you inject.
Maintenance is estimated either by the selected activity setting or some mechanism to estimate based on actuals, the Fitbit factor.
My BMR setting gives me about 1800cals per day. What I've found since I started using an activity tracker is that my selection of lightly active wasn't representative. I was getting an extra 400 cals from that whereas I'm probably closer to 600 cals per day from routine activity.
Even there the maintenance element is only 25% of my daily requirements
So moving on to actual training. If I run for an hour I'm going to burn in the order of 700 calories, plus the 200 that I was going to burn anyway. That 700 is purely a result of moving my body mass forwards for 7 miles.
My FT60 will give me 900-1000 cals for that session. The Garmin platform will give me about 700, Endomondo will give me 900, MFP will give me 600, Runkeeper will generally land somewhere between Garmin and Endomondo, so about 800, as will Strava.
The size of the maintenance element is entirely driven by basic activity level, and the proportion of the total expenditure that is BMR will reduce relative to that in more highly active people. But if one is doing deliberate exercise for an hour, then the proportion of that hour that is maintenance drops. My setup allows for the maintenance to be discounted during the deliberate training, so using the example above we're talking about potentially deducting 50 cals.
For a short session we're talking about 50 cals, for a longer session that might mount up to 200 or 300 cals, but in that case they're dwarved by my exercise expenditure and it all becomes a bit moot as I can't physically consume enough food to make up the difference.
So going back to the original question, someone walking slowly for an hour will mean that the BMR+maintenance proportion of the reading on the FT4 is somewhat higher. Going back to my own metrics, I'd burn say 300 cals in an hour of walking, so I would be more interested in that 200 cals of double accounting.
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
So each of the three categories of expenditure are estimated in different ways. Many people here, including myself, use BMR when they mean BMR+maintenance.
BMR is a function of height, weight, gender, body composition etc and is approximated by MFP based on the metrics that you inject.
Maintenance is estimated either by the selected activity setting or some mechanism to estimate based on actuals, the Fitbit factor.
My BMR setting gives me about 1800cals per day. What I've found since I started using an activity tracker is that my selection of lightly active wasn't representative. I was getting an extra 400 cals from that whereas I'm probably closer to 600 cals per day from routine activity.
Even there the maintenance element is only 25% of my daily requirements
So moving on to actual training. If I run for an hour I'm going to burn in the order of 700 calories, plus the 200 that I was going to burn anyway. That 700 is purely a result of moving my body mass forwards for 7 miles.
My FT60 will give me 900-1000 cals for that session. The Garmin platform will give me about 700, Endomondo will give me 900, MFP will give me 600, Runkeeper will generally land somewhere between Garmin and Endomondo, so about 800, as will Strava.
The size of the maintenance element is entirely driven by basic activity level, and the proportion of the total expenditure that is BMR will reduce relative to that in more highly active people. But if one is doing deliberate exercise for an hour, then the proportion of that hour that is maintenance drops. My setup allows for the maintenance to be discounted during the deliberate training, so using the example above we're talking about potentially deducting 50 cals.
For a short session we're talking about 50 cals, for a longer session that might mount up to 200 or 300 cals, but in that case they're dwarved by my exercise expenditure and it all becomes a bit moot as I can't physically consume enough food to make up the difference.
So going back to the original question, someone walking slowly for an hour will mean that the BMR+maintenance proportion of the reading on the FT4 is somewhat higher. Going back to my own metrics, I'd burn say 300 cals in an hour of walking, so I would be more interested in that 200 cals of double accounting.
I would have to know more than just a constant speed, he didn't give any information on how long, or how many actual calories that he's burning. whether or not it was at an incline, what his heart rate was. I do 30 mins walking 3 mph once or twice a week, to reach a HR of 120 the treadmill usually has to be at an incline between 7 and 9 depending on the which work out session I'm doing. yesterday it was only 206 calories. also, would have to know how active his days are. Mine has started to slow down a bit, and I only have 20261 steps (just had to throw that out there(LOL)) Here's my reading as of right now
Training 469 cal
Activity 664 cal
BMR 1273 cal
BTW MFP gives 2600 cals a day, but adjusts for my activity monitor, I've had days where after doing my daily work out, if I wasn't active the rest of the day, it would subtract from my daily total.
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ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
So each of the three categories of expenditure are estimated in different ways. Many people here, including myself, use BMR when they mean BMR+maintenance.
BMR is a function of height, weight, gender, body composition etc and is approximated by MFP based on the metrics that you inject.
Maintenance is estimated either by the selected activity setting or some mechanism to estimate based on actuals, the Fitbit factor.
My BMR setting gives me about 1800cals per day. What I've found since I started using an activity tracker is that my selection of lightly active wasn't representative. I was getting an extra 400 cals from that whereas I'm probably closer to 600 cals per day from routine activity.
Even there the maintenance element is only 25% of my daily requirements
So moving on to actual training. If I run for an hour I'm going to burn in the order of 700 calories, plus the 200 that I was going to burn anyway. That 700 is purely a result of moving my body mass forwards for 7 miles.
My FT60 will give me 900-1000 cals for that session. The Garmin platform will give me about 700, Endomondo will give me 900, MFP will give me 600, Runkeeper will generally land somewhere between Garmin and Endomondo, so about 800, as will Strava.
The size of the maintenance element is entirely driven by basic activity level, and the proportion of the total expenditure that is BMR will reduce relative to that in more highly active people. But if one is doing deliberate exercise for an hour, then the proportion of that hour that is maintenance drops. My setup allows for the maintenance to be discounted during the deliberate training, so using the example above we're talking about potentially deducting 50 cals.
For a short session we're talking about 50 cals, for a longer session that might mount up to 200 or 300 cals, but in that case they're dwarved by my exercise expenditure and it all becomes a bit moot as I can't physically consume enough food to make up the difference.
So going back to the original question, someone walking slowly for an hour will mean that the BMR+maintenance proportion of the reading on the FT4 is somewhat higher. Going back to my own metrics, I'd burn say 300 cals in an hour of walking, so I would be more interested in that 200 cals of double accounting.
I would have to know more than just a constant speed, he didn't give any information on how long, or how many actual calories that he's burning. whether or not it was at an incline, what his heart rate was. I do 30 mins walking 3 mph once or twice a week, to reach a HR of 120 the treadmill usually has to be at an incline between 7 and 9 depending on the which work out session I'm doing. yesterday it was only 206 calories. also, would have to know how active his days are. Mine has started to slow down a bit, and I only have 20261 steps (just had to throw that out there(LOL)) Here's my reading as of right now
Training 469 cal
Activity 664 cal
BMR 1273 cal
BTW MFP gives 2600 cals a day, but adjusts for my activity monitor, I've had days where after doing my daily work out, if I wasn't active the rest of the day, it would subtract from my daily total.
Unless you are under 120lbs your BMR should be much higher than 1273, where did that calculation come from?0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
So each of the three categories of expenditure are estimated in different ways. Many people here, including myself, use BMR when they mean BMR+maintenance.
BMR is a function of height, weight, gender, body composition etc and is approximated by MFP based on the metrics that you inject.
Maintenance is estimated either by the selected activity setting or some mechanism to estimate based on actuals, the Fitbit factor.
My BMR setting gives me about 1800cals per day. What I've found since I started using an activity tracker is that my selection of lightly active wasn't representative. I was getting an extra 400 cals from that whereas I'm probably closer to 600 cals per day from routine activity.
Even there the maintenance element is only 25% of my daily requirements
So moving on to actual training. If I run for an hour I'm going to burn in the order of 700 calories, plus the 200 that I was going to burn anyway. That 700 is purely a result of moving my body mass forwards for 7 miles.
My FT60 will give me 900-1000 cals for that session. The Garmin platform will give me about 700, Endomondo will give me 900, MFP will give me 600, Runkeeper will generally land somewhere between Garmin and Endomondo, so about 800, as will Strava.
The size of the maintenance element is entirely driven by basic activity level, and the proportion of the total expenditure that is BMR will reduce relative to that in more highly active people. But if one is doing deliberate exercise for an hour, then the proportion of that hour that is maintenance drops. My setup allows for the maintenance to be discounted during the deliberate training, so using the example above we're talking about potentially deducting 50 cals.
For a short session we're talking about 50 cals, for a longer session that might mount up to 200 or 300 cals, but in that case they're dwarved by my exercise expenditure and it all becomes a bit moot as I can't physically consume enough food to make up the difference.
So going back to the original question, someone walking slowly for an hour will mean that the BMR+maintenance proportion of the reading on the FT4 is somewhat higher. Going back to my own metrics, I'd burn say 300 cals in an hour of walking, so I would be more interested in that 200 cals of double accounting.
I would have to know more than just a constant speed, he didn't give any information on how long, or how many actual calories that he's burning. whether or not it was at an incline, what his heart rate was. I do 30 mins walking 3 mph once or twice a week, to reach a HR of 120 the treadmill usually has to be at an incline between 7 and 9 depending on the which work out session I'm doing. yesterday it was only 206 calories. also, would have to know how active his days are. Mine has started to slow down a bit, and I only have 20261 steps (just had to throw that out there(LOL)) Here's my reading as of right now
Training 469 cal
Activity 664 cal
BMR 1273 cal
BTW MFP gives 2600 cals a day, but adjusts for my activity monitor, I've had days where after doing my daily work out, if I wasn't active the rest of the day, it would subtract from my daily total.
Unless you are under 120lbs your BMR should be much higher than 1273, where did that calculation come from?
From my activity monitor, if it was much higher, that would mean I was a heart attack
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My question: is the calorie burn number from my HRM my total calorie burn for the exercise period? Or is it just what I burned for doing the exercise? In other words, is it already adjusting for my BMR for the time I was exercising?
It includes BMR. That's ones the reasons things like walking produce such large over-estimates.0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.
so what's extremely fit???
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ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.
so what's extremely fit???
Being able to do the equivalent of a half marathon run every day, plus or minus.
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ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
So each of the three categories of expenditure are estimated in different ways. Many people here, including myself, use BMR when they mean BMR+maintenance.
BMR is a function of height, weight, gender, body composition etc and is approximated by MFP based on the metrics that you inject.
Maintenance is estimated either by the selected activity setting or some mechanism to estimate based on actuals, the Fitbit factor.
My BMR setting gives me about 1800cals per day. What I've found since I started using an activity tracker is that my selection of lightly active wasn't representative. I was getting an extra 400 cals from that whereas I'm probably closer to 600 cals per day from routine activity.
Even there the maintenance element is only 25% of my daily requirements
So moving on to actual training. If I run for an hour I'm going to burn in the order of 700 calories, plus the 200 that I was going to burn anyway. That 700 is purely a result of moving my body mass forwards for 7 miles.
My FT60 will give me 900-1000 cals for that session. The Garmin platform will give me about 700, Endomondo will give me 900, MFP will give me 600, Runkeeper will generally land somewhere between Garmin and Endomondo, so about 800, as will Strava.
The size of the maintenance element is entirely driven by basic activity level, and the proportion of the total expenditure that is BMR will reduce relative to that in more highly active people. But if one is doing deliberate exercise for an hour, then the proportion of that hour that is maintenance drops. My setup allows for the maintenance to be discounted during the deliberate training, so using the example above we're talking about potentially deducting 50 cals.
For a short session we're talking about 50 cals, for a longer session that might mount up to 200 or 300 cals, but in that case they're dwarved by my exercise expenditure and it all becomes a bit moot as I can't physically consume enough food to make up the difference.
So going back to the original question, someone walking slowly for an hour will mean that the BMR+maintenance proportion of the reading on the FT4 is somewhat higher. Going back to my own metrics, I'd burn say 300 cals in an hour of walking, so I would be more interested in that 200 cals of double accounting.
I would have to know more than just a constant speed, he didn't give any information on how long, or how many actual calories that he's burning. whether or not it was at an incline, what his heart rate was. I do 30 mins walking 3 mph once or twice a week, to reach a HR of 120 the treadmill usually has to be at an incline between 7 and 9 depending on the which work out session I'm doing. yesterday it was only 206 calories. also, would have to know how active his days are. Mine has started to slow down a bit, and I only have 20261 steps (just had to throw that out there(LOL)) Here's my reading as of right now
Training 469 cal
Activity 664 cal
BMR 1273 cal
BTW MFP gives 2600 cals a day, but adjusts for my activity monitor, I've had days where after doing my daily work out, if I wasn't active the rest of the day, it would subtract from my daily total.
Unless you are under 120lbs your BMR should be much higher than 1273, where did that calculation come from?
From my activity monitor, if it was much higher, that would mean I was a heart attack
If you are actually a male, you're doing something pretty wrong there. The BMR number is way to low. And if you really are that small, the activity burn number equates to running a 10k.0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
So each of the three categories of expenditure are estimated in different ways. Many people here, including myself, use BMR when they mean BMR+maintenance.
BMR is a function of height, weight, gender, body composition etc and is approximated by MFP based on the metrics that you inject.
Maintenance is estimated either by the selected activity setting or some mechanism to estimate based on actuals, the Fitbit factor.
My BMR setting gives me about 1800cals per day. What I've found since I started using an activity tracker is that my selection of lightly active wasn't representative. I was getting an extra 400 cals from that whereas I'm probably closer to 600 cals per day from routine activity.
Even there the maintenance element is only 25% of my daily requirements
So moving on to actual training. If I run for an hour I'm going to burn in the order of 700 calories, plus the 200 that I was going to burn anyway. That 700 is purely a result of moving my body mass forwards for 7 miles.
My FT60 will give me 900-1000 cals for that session. The Garmin platform will give me about 700, Endomondo will give me 900, MFP will give me 600, Runkeeper will generally land somewhere between Garmin and Endomondo, so about 800, as will Strava.
The size of the maintenance element is entirely driven by basic activity level, and the proportion of the total expenditure that is BMR will reduce relative to that in more highly active people. But if one is doing deliberate exercise for an hour, then the proportion of that hour that is maintenance drops. My setup allows for the maintenance to be discounted during the deliberate training, so using the example above we're talking about potentially deducting 50 cals.
For a short session we're talking about 50 cals, for a longer session that might mount up to 200 or 300 cals, but in that case they're dwarved by my exercise expenditure and it all becomes a bit moot as I can't physically consume enough food to make up the difference.
So going back to the original question, someone walking slowly for an hour will mean that the BMR+maintenance proportion of the reading on the FT4 is somewhat higher. Going back to my own metrics, I'd burn say 300 cals in an hour of walking, so I would be more interested in that 200 cals of double accounting.
I would have to know more than just a constant speed, he didn't give any information on how long, or how many actual calories that he's burning. whether or not it was at an incline, what his heart rate was. I do 30 mins walking 3 mph once or twice a week, to reach a HR of 120 the treadmill usually has to be at an incline between 7 and 9 depending on the which work out session I'm doing. yesterday it was only 206 calories. also, would have to know how active his days are. Mine has started to slow down a bit, and I only have 20261 steps (just had to throw that out there(LOL)) Here's my reading as of right now
Training 469 cal
Activity 664 cal
BMR 1273 cal
BTW MFP gives 2600 cals a day, but adjusts for my activity monitor, I've had days where after doing my daily work out, if I wasn't active the rest of the day, it would subtract from my daily total.
Unless you are under 120lbs your BMR should be much higher than 1273, where did that calculation come from?
From my activity monitor, if it was much higher, that would mean I was a heart attack
If you are actually a male, you're doing something pretty wrong there. The BMR number is way to low. And if you really are that small, the activity burn number equates to running a 10k.
If you would look at what this was about you would know! I was showing how my activity monitor separated the calories!! Also look at the time of day, that was not for a full day!!
0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.
so what's extremely fit???
Being able to do the equivalent of a half marathon run every day, plus or minus.
Oh so those are the only people that are extremely fit?
0 -
SatScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.
so what's extremely fit???
Being able to do the equivalent of a half marathon run every day, plus or minus.
Oh so those are the only people that are extremely fit?
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 307 2,599
Fri
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 40 357
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 34 325
Bicycling, >32 kph, racing (cycling, biking, bike riding) 36 405
Swimming laps, freestyle, light/moderate effort 82 800
Thurs
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 66 649
Running (jogging), 10.7 kph (5.6 min per km) 58 642
Aerobics, general 54 251
Swimming laps, freestyle, light/moderate effort 52 460
Here's "just" a half-marathon - that's only half the BMR.
Running (jogging), 15 kph (4.0 min per km) 85 944
0 -
SatScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.
so what's extremely fit???
Being able to do the equivalent of a half marathon run every day, plus or minus.
Oh so those are the only people that are extremely fit?
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 307 2,599
Fri
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 40 357
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 34 325
Bicycling, >32 kph, racing (cycling, biking, bike riding) 36 405
Swimming laps, freestyle, light/moderate effort 82 800
Thurs
Bicycling, 26-32 kph, very fast (cycling, biking, bike riding) 66 649
Running (jogging), 10.7 kph (5.6 min per km) 58 642
Aerobics, general 54 251
Swimming laps, freestyle, light/moderate effort 52 460
Here's "just" a half-marathon - that's only half the BMR.
Running (jogging), 15 kph (4.0 min per km) 85 944
Don't know what any of that means
0 -
1,641 calories reported by my Garmin Forerunner for yesterday's 21.3km run.
Incidentally for running I find Garmin tends to report the lowest calorie burn as compared to MFP and Strava. For the same run Strava would credit me 2,234 calories. MFP: 1,793. I've always assumed Strava includes other caloric burn beyond the exercise event and don't use their data for MFP. MFP estimates for running for me would be good enough.0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.
so what's extremely fit???
Being able to do the equivalent of a half marathon run every day, plus or minus.
Oh so those are the only people that are extremely fit?
The question was about what it would take to burn as much in exercise as one burns in BMR.
For that standard...yes, that's about what is required to be extremely fit.
0 -
ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »ScubaSteve1962 wrote: »While I'm not sure about the FT4, but the 3 polar devices I've had, the FT80 did not include BMR, it only recorded when I wore the chest strap and hit the record button, I could wear it all day, and it wouldn't show any other calories burned, and the V800 is the same way, but gives me my calorie burn for the whole day, if I'm active most of the the day the BMR will be low and the activity calories will the higher or vice versa. The loop would only record when it got a signal from a sensor, but would give me an estimated calorie burn for the day. When you sync any of these with a polar app you will only get you're calorie burn from recorded exercises.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but BMR is the calories your body will burn just being alive, if you're moving, and your heart is beating faster, then those are so small that it doesn't even matter.
Actually most of the cals you burn are from BMR. My BMR is 1600ish with maintenance around 2000, 80% of my cals burned are BMR, but that would equate to about 1.1 cals/min with maintenance about 1.4 cals/min. So if I exercise and burn 8 cals/min on the HRM, The exercise portion is only 6.6 (8-1.4), back out maintenance as I would do more than just be in a comma had I not worked out.
Once again this would depend on how active you are during the day along with cardio exercises.
Only extremely fit people are able to burn as much in exercise as they burn in BMR/RMR.
so what's extremely fit???
Being able to do the equivalent of a half marathon run every day, plus or minus.
Oh so those are the only people that are extremely fit?
The question was about what it would take to burn as much in exercise as one burns in BMR.
For that standard...yes, that's about what is required to be extremely fit.
Umm I think this was the question, but I will keep wearing and going by MY activity monitor, and you keep doing what ever it is you're doing.
"I have a Polar chest strap heart rate monitor that I use to estimate calorie burn for walking at a consistent speed (usually 3.5 mph). My question: is the calorie burn number from my HRM my total calorie burn for the exercise period? Or is it just what I burned for doing the exercise? In other words, is it already adjusting for my BMR for the time I was exercising?
I'm afraid my BMR is getting counted twice when I log my calories burned from my HRM."
0 -
That question was answered ages ago (and incorrectly, BTW, by you).
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This discussion has been closed.
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