Food addiction
Replies
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karla24687 wrote: »It is real. I researched it for my psychology courses. There was a post about it yesterday, I believe, that has some good info as well.
Think of it this way: when you eat certain foods (especially sugars, starches like white bread) you feel something. Some people get "high" on this feeling because your brain releases pleasure chemicals so you feel good. It doesn't happen with everyone, but certainly some people (myself included). When you stop eating those foods or don't get the same levels your brain is used to, those feel-good chemicals are not released so you end up feeling crappy. You get tired, grumpy, irritable, etc. Eating those foods makes you feel better. The addiction cycle continues.
Will people die if they don't eat those foods? No. Should they be admitted to the hospital? No. Should you file for disability? No. But it is a tough thing to deal with, especially when you're trying to lose weight or eat healthier.
My only advice is to keep your calories at an acceptable level & don't cut too much. Stick to your macros (I just use what MFP recommends but not always 100%.
nope0 -
Deleted my post because...
I only posted those links because I found them interesting. As I stated above I have never really done any research in to "Food Addiction".
If I missed the point of other people's post...sorry but honestly those links weren't posted to refute anyone elses opinions.
I am not sure that I have an opinion on "Food Addiction" at this point. I was just curious as to what studies have been done and thought some others might be also.
Sorry...0 -
I found some of the following interesting...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/
Abstract
There is a high degree of overlap between brain regions involved in processing natural rewards and drugs of abuse. “Non-drug” or “behavioral” addictions have become increasingly documented in the clinic, and pathologies include compulsive activities such as shopping, eating, exercising, sexual behavior, and gambling. Like drug addiction, non-drug addictions manifest in symptoms including craving, impaired control over the behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, and high rates of relapse. These alterations in behavior suggest that plasticity may be occurring in brain regions associated with drug addiction. In this review, I summarize data demonstrating that exposure to non-drug rewards can alter neural plasticity in regions of the brain that are affected by drugs of abuse. Research suggests that there are several similarities between neuroplasticity induced by natural and drug rewards and that, depending on the reward, repeated exposure to natural rewards might induce neuroplasticity that either promotes or counteracts addictive behavior.
Along with this study...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210935/
Moreover, because non-drug addictions share the classical definition of addiction with substance abuse and dependence, which includes engaging in the behavior despite serious negative consequences, a new category called “Addiction and Related Behavior” was proposed by the American Psychological Association prior to the publication of DSM-V; this category should include behavioral addictions as well as addictions to natural rewards
***
I admit that I have only begun to do reading on "Food Addiction". I never really thought about it until after joining MFP and so many people were claiming to be addicted. Is it real...IDK...but evidently at least some scientist believe that it is worth more extensive study.
I think you missed the point of several posts made already which allowed for speculative papers like this already. It's already been stated that research into this is being done and is in its infancy.
HOWEVER, that's beside the point.
The real point?
Self-diagnosis.
It would trivialize the devastating effects of alcoholism for someone who drank too much at the family barbecue to call themselves an alcoholic.
It trivializes the devastating reality of true Binge Eating Disorder for people who eat a whole box of cookes to call themselves binge eaters.
And it trivializes the nature of true addiction for people to self-label and diagnose themselves with it.
Whether food addiction exists or not is still being determined by scientists.
In the end, should such a determination is made, people who feel they have an issue with it would get a diagnosis.
I have a feeling it would be quite rare.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »I found some of the following interesting...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/
Abstract
There is a high degree of overlap between brain regions involved in processing natural rewards and drugs of abuse. “Non-drug” or “behavioral” addictions have become increasingly documented in the clinic, and pathologies include compulsive activities such as shopping, eating, exercising, sexual behavior, and gambling. Like drug addiction, non-drug addictions manifest in symptoms including craving, impaired control over the behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, and high rates of relapse. These alterations in behavior suggest that plasticity may be occurring in brain regions associated with drug addiction. In this review, I summarize data demonstrating that exposure to non-drug rewards can alter neural plasticity in regions of the brain that are affected by drugs of abuse. Research suggests that there are several similarities between neuroplasticity induced by natural and drug rewards and that, depending on the reward, repeated exposure to natural rewards might induce neuroplasticity that either promotes or counteracts addictive behavior.
Along with this study...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210935/
Moreover, because non-drug addictions share the classical definition of addiction with substance abuse and dependence, which includes engaging in the behavior despite serious negative consequences, a new category called “Addiction and Related Behavior” was proposed by the American Psychological Association prior to the publication of DSM-V; this category should include behavioral addictions as well as addictions to natural rewards
***
I admit that I have only begun to do reading on "Food Addiction". I never really thought about it until after joining MFP and so many people were claiming to be addicted. Is it real...IDK...but evidently at least some scientist believe that it is worth more extensive study.
I think you missed the point of several posts made already which allowed for speculative papers like this already. It's already been stated that research into this is being done and is in its infancy.
HOWEVER, that's beside the point.
The real point?
Self-diagnosis.
It would trivialize the devastating effects of alcoholism for someone who drank too much at the family barbecue to call themselves an alcoholic.
It trivializes the devastating reality of true Binge Eating Disorder for people who eat a whole box of cookes to call themselves binge eaters.
And it trivializes the nature of true addiction for people to self-label and diagnose themselves with it.
Whether food addiction exists or not is still being determined by scientists.
In the end, should such a determination is made, people who feel they have an issue with it would get a diagnosis.
I have a feeling it would be quite rare.
In response...
Deleted my post because...
I only posted those links because I found them interesting. As I stated above I have never really done any research in to "Food Addiction".
If I missed the point of other people's post...sorry but honestly those links weren't posted to refute anyone elses opinions.
I am not sure that I have an opinion on "Food Addiction" at this point. I was just curious as to what studies have been done and thought some others might be also.
Sorry...
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nvsmomketo wrote: »True addiction, IMO, means quitting has some physical effect, some kind of uncomfortable withdrawal. Even caffeine, with it's painful withdrawal headaches would count as an addiction...a mild one, but it qualifies. My pasta issue doesn't.
It seems to make more of it than it is, KWIM?
IMO.
I think there are food addictions, but they are mild - similar to a coffe addiction... JMHO
When I eat sugar (and by sugar I mean more than 1 or 2 grams at a time) I find that I felt badly a few hours hours after eating it and felt better again when I did, but only for a short time. When I say I felt bad, I meant I got tired, jittery, cranky and I started to think about eating more because I felt so hungry. I realize that some some of that is attributed to blood glucose issues; I do have mild insulin resistance so that will affect things.
Insulin resistance does not explain how I feel after giving up sugar (down to about 5g per day) for a few days. I had a migraine, was very fatigued and my mood was horrible - I couldn't concentrate well and small irritants turned into large irritants. This was not because my BG was low. When I felt like that my BG was between 4.4 and 5.4. This morning my BG was just below a 4 (often considered a tad low) and I feel just fine.
My physical symptoms of withdrawal were real. They were not psychosomatic symptoms. I went to sleep with the headache, I woke up in the middle of the night with a headache, when I moved it made the headache worse. A real thing.
On the other hand, when I gave up coffee while breastfeeding and pregnant, I had very mild discomfort - it wasn't a big deal for me. No addiction to coffee even though I was drinking a few cups a day prior to stopping.
I believe that addictions do not hit populations evenly. Some have issues and some don't. Some people have problems with some substances that others will not. Coffee, alcohol, and cigarettes were not an issue for me. I find sugar is. IMO
Just because someone hasn't experienced something does not mean it does not exist for others.
And thus why "food addicts" and "sugar addicts" are rightly ridiculed. A few eggs would put you over your magical too much sugar limit, so would any serving of fruit or veggies. So either you're A) making it up that if you eat more than 1 or 2 grams of sugar it makes you feel badly for hours and hours or
You don't even know what sugar is and making excuses 0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »The only success I've had of getting off cigarettes was switching to a vape for 7 months...three weeks ago I switched back to cigarettes. So technically I never quit nicotine. It really sucks and makes you feel like a failure.
I personally think it can be an addiction. Especially if it interferes with or controls your life. These are a little embarrassing but I have a bad history of food and its lead me to believe that I am addicted. Even now that my appetite has subsided with low carb its SUPER easy for me to fall into old habits.
-I would take my daughters Halloween candy and replace it later when she didn't notice
-I've stolen food from friends houses
-I've woken up in the night to eat things sometimes even twice to three times a night
-I would actually go sit in a drive thru contemplating buying food and I'd decide not to, drive away, come back, drive away, come back, buy something, hate myself and try to throw the food away, couldnt bring myself to throw it away, and end up driving the food behind a grocery store or something eating it and crying.
-I've actually skipped family outings and in highschool I'd skip classes to go get ice cream or some other snack because I knew nobody would see me
-I'd make a dessert for my husband and I'd keep it in the fridge and it would almost have me sweating trying not to eat the damn thing so I'd decide I could have one bite and then I'd put the dessert back but I'd come back every 10-15 minutes for another bite until I realized it was half gone the next day
-I've held off on cigarettes so I'd have time for food. for example if my husband was leaving to go to the gas station or something and I really really needed a cigarette, I'd hold out so I could eat a candy bar or something while he was gone, then go out and smoke.
It wasn't really bingeing though because I've never really sat down and ate a crap ton in one sitting. I've been to a few therapists about bringing and they didn't think that was my problem. I know that this was mostly with fast food, cookies, plain sugar by the teaspoon, donuts, etc. It did happen with other foods though in the absence of those treats but it felt empty if I didn't get what I wanted. Honestly it felt very similar to needing a cigarette. It makes you angry, it makes you restless, its all you can think about, and you physically feel like there's something not right about your body.
It could have a lot to do with my childhood but I honestly don't know. I was raised on snack cakes and sodas and pizza fast food etc. My mom bought me my own personal two liters when i was like 6. That's not a joke either. That was my entire diet until I got a little older and started researching food and wondering why I was fatter than the other kids.
my boring post is over lol.
Your post was far from boring. I read it last night and woke up this morning thinking about it so I came back to read it again. I know that it must have taken courage to share your story.
I wish I had answers or even just a bit of advice to share with you. I hope that you continue to find ways to deal with your situation. I wish you the strength and courage to continue battling.
I know this isn't the response desired, but a LOT of that sounds to me like the result of demonizing certain kinds of food and saying you can't have them. I think that really often results in disordered behaviors like secret eating and obsessing and overeating when you do eat. I'd recommend some of the people who write about mindful and intuitive eating, even though I am not a true believer in intuitive eating.
One book I enjoyed that's more reporting than self-help but still has lots of those elements and good talk about these issues and how they can mess up your thinking is Laura Fraser's Losing It.
I've also recently heard Isabel Foxen Duke interviewed on some podcasts, and I think she had some valuable things to say, and would recommend Nia Shanks' podcast--less for the workout stuff and more for the eating issue stuff. Her interview of Heather from the Half Size Me podcast was particularly worthwhile, IMO.
I don't know LC what the answer is. How can I when science still doesn't know.
I'm not sure how this responds to what I said, which was more directed at midpath, but it's interesting.
I don't think science will "know," because I think what we are talking about is psychological, not science.I didn't gain weight because of any addiction...sugar wasn't the issue...not fast food or even processed. I gained weight because I used food as a crutch to ease the pain of other things in my life. As I gained weight I found out that I could hide behind the fat...didn't have to worry about putting myself out there to hurt again. Yes...the added weight was painful but at least I was doing it to myself instead of someone else doing it.
Yes, this is not so different from me.Another poster popped in and threw out "self control". I think that just trivializes the situation. If I could have found the self-control when I was "hiding"...I would have used it. In the case of someone like midpath and her story help is needed beyond just someone saying "get some self-control".
I don't think "self-control" trivializes it, but I think it's difficult or more complicated. Why can someone have control in other areas and not this one, for example? What tactics allow for the necessary motivation or minimize the need to rely on willpower (which is a finite resource)?It took me many years to come to terms with my eating habits and why I was over eating. I struggled to change those things...it took work...a lot of hard work to finally understand that I was worthy of a good life. I still have moments occasionally where I find myself slipping back in to old ways of thinking. Finally at this point...for me...it is about self-control.
I actually think this is similar to what most of us are saying. I see the "I can't help it, it's an addiction" or the facile claims that "sugar" or "carbs" or "pizza" is addictive to be contrary to this kind of thoughtful approach to the problem.
I'd recommend the book and podcasts I mentioned if only to demonstrate that I'm not just saying "use self control."
I do think that's an understandable and frustrated response to the people who say "you don't get it, it's much harder for me, I'm addicted." (That said, I generally try not to go there, since I think self-control is necessary but there are a lot of things that can make it possible and easier.)0 -
Agree!! ^^LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »IMO it's like gluten intolerance: it exists but almost everyone who claims to have it is mistaken.
Answer your question OP, NO!!!
It's lack of self control!!
That's not really true. I believe that it's your opinion - not calling you a liar! But I think you're very wrong.
I have self-control. I can eat a little if many things and will not crave them. There won't be anything nagging at me all day if I eat, say, a Kit Kat. And I like Kit-Kats very much more than Mac n cheese.
But if I have the white pasta, it will create a craving. A real craving. I will want more and it won't stop bugging me. Even if I am busy washing the floor, not thinking about it, it will pop into my head that I should eat more of it.
I don't think it's an addiction. Wouldn't go that far.
But it isn't just a lack of control. If that were the case, then I'd crave things I really liked a lot as much as the white pasta.0 -
But you have to have an opinion to post here. The fact that you have no basis for an opinion is just an excuse. ☺PeachyCarol wrote: »I found some of the following interesting...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/
Abstract
There is a high degree of overlap between brain regions involved in processing natural rewards and drugs of abuse. “Non-drug” or “behavioral” addictions have become increasingly documented in the clinic, and pathologies include compulsive activities such as shopping, eating, exercising, sexual behavior, and gambling. Like drug addiction, non-drug addictions manifest in symptoms including craving, impaired control over the behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, and high rates of relapse. These alterations in behavior suggest that plasticity may be occurring in brain regions associated with drug addiction. In this review, I summarize data demonstrating that exposure to non-drug rewards can alter neural plasticity in regions of the brain that are affected by drugs of abuse. Research suggests that there are several similarities between neuroplasticity induced by natural and drug rewards and that, depending on the reward, repeated exposure to natural rewards might induce neuroplasticity that either promotes or counteracts addictive behavior.
Along with this study...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210935/
Moreover, because non-drug addictions share the classical definition of addiction with substance abuse and dependence, which includes engaging in the behavior despite serious negative consequences, a new category called “Addiction and Related Behavior” was proposed by the American Psychological Association prior to the publication of DSM-V; this category should include behavioral addictions as well as addictions to natural rewards
***
I admit that I have only begun to do reading on "Food Addiction". I never really thought about it until after joining MFP and so many people were claiming to be addicted. Is it real...IDK...but evidently at least some scientist believe that it is worth more extensive study.
I think you missed the point of several posts made already which allowed for speculative papers like this already. It's already been stated that research into this is being done and is in its infancy.
HOWEVER, that's beside the point.
The real point?
Self-diagnosis.
It would trivialize the devastating effects of alcoholism for someone who drank too much at the family barbecue to call themselves an alcoholic.
It trivializes the devastating reality of true Binge Eating Disorder for people who eat a whole box of cookes to call themselves binge eaters.
And it trivializes the nature of true addiction for people to self-label and diagnose themselves with it.
Whether food addiction exists or not is still being determined by scientists.
In the end, should such a determination is made, people who feel they have an issue with it would get a diagnosis.
I have a feeling it would be quite rare.
In response...
Deleted my post because...
I only posted those links because I found them interesting. As I stated above I have never really done any research in to "Food Addiction".
If I missed the point of other people's post...sorry but honestly those links weren't posted to refute anyone elses opinions.
I am not sure that I have an opinion on "Food Addiction" at this point. I was just curious as to what studies have been done and thought some others might be also.
Sorry...
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PeachyCarol wrote: »I found some of the following interesting...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/
Abstract
There is a high degree of overlap between brain regions involved in processing natural rewards and drugs of abuse. “Non-drug” or “behavioral” addictions have become increasingly documented in the clinic, and pathologies include compulsive activities such as shopping, eating, exercising, sexual behavior, and gambling. Like drug addiction, non-drug addictions manifest in symptoms including craving, impaired control over the behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, and high rates of relapse. These alterations in behavior suggest that plasticity may be occurring in brain regions associated with drug addiction. In this review, I summarize data demonstrating that exposure to non-drug rewards can alter neural plasticity in regions of the brain that are affected by drugs of abuse. Research suggests that there are several similarities between neuroplasticity induced by natural and drug rewards and that, depending on the reward, repeated exposure to natural rewards might induce neuroplasticity that either promotes or counteracts addictive behavior.
Along with this study...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210935/
Moreover, because non-drug addictions share the classical definition of addiction with substance abuse and dependence, which includes engaging in the behavior despite serious negative consequences, a new category called “Addiction and Related Behavior” was proposed by the American Psychological Association prior to the publication of DSM-V; this category should include behavioral addictions as well as addictions to natural rewards
***
I admit that I have only begun to do reading on "Food Addiction". I never really thought about it until after joining MFP and so many people were claiming to be addicted. Is it real...IDK...but evidently at least some scientist believe that it is worth more extensive study.
I think you missed the point of several posts made already which allowed for speculative papers like this already. It's already been stated that research into this is being done and is in its infancy.
HOWEVER, that's beside the point.
The real point?
Self-diagnosis.
It would trivialize the devastating effects of alcoholism for someone who drank too much at the family barbecue to call themselves an alcoholic.
It trivializes the devastating reality of true Binge Eating Disorder for people who eat a whole box of cookes to call themselves binge eaters.
And it trivializes the nature of true addiction for people to self-label and diagnose themselves with it.
Whether food addiction exists or not is still being determined by scientists.
In the end, should such a determination is made, people who feel they have an issue with it would get a diagnosis.
I have a feeling it would be quite rare.
In response...
Deleted my post because...
I only posted those links because I found them interesting. As I stated above I have never really done any research in to "Food Addiction".
If I missed the point of other people's post...sorry but honestly those links weren't posted to refute anyone elses opinions.
I am not sure that I have an opinion on "Food Addiction" at this point. I was just curious as to what studies have been done and thought some others might be also.
Sorry...
I actually found the part about neural plasticity very interesting considering that children often grow up with the habits that they had as a child. It's hard to convince someone who was raised a certain way of another option if its been ingrained in them enough. Religion comes to mind though I do know people who have converted to and from religions as adults.
These kids growing up on baconators are probably being wired to associate high calorie foods with normalcy. There's a bit of research to support that at least, though as someone else said, can't say for sure.0 -
If you are getting those kinds of responses to foods that are chemically basically identical to foods that do not result in the same cravings -- and that's how it is with almost all trigger foods that people identify, since foods really aren't all that distinctive on a chemical level -- then it has to be some combination of taste response plus the psychological meaning you place in the food. (That's it's psychological doesn't make it less real; it just suggests that maybe it's something that could be overcome if you cared to do so. Not saying you should.)
Really often, thinking you can't control yourself around a food makes it true.
White pasta is essentially identical to any other processed grain, especially wheat-based -- for example, bread. It's also not that different from most whole wheat pastas, because the difference in the amount of fiber is not particularly high. (I eat whole wheat pasta because I like it just as well usually and it has slight nutritional advantages IMO, but the effect on me is identical.) If you combine it with fat (i.e., cheese) then it becomes chemically about the same as any other combination of processed grain and fat -- bagel and cream cheese or a butter cookie or even a Kit Kat, I think. But there are always psychological meanings that foods have -- mac and cheese certainly could be a comfort food.
Anyway, who knows why one thing becomes a trigger vs. another -- contrary to the usual dogma around here, for me it's no more likely to be a carb-based food that I have trouble not overeating than something else. I think it's complicated and a real thing. I simply DON'T think it's really about the physical reaction to the food, as people will claim a reaction to, say, donuts and not cake. Thus, we aren't talking about addiction.
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Until there is a common understanding of what addiction means and why it matters we are just talking past each other. If it matters because it relieves someone of responsibility for what they eat, then no, it doesn't exist. If it matters for some other reason, i need an explanation.0
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I think it's worth noting that drug addiction and eating disorders are pretty normal in the aspergers community and I only say that because someone else mentioned that it's weird that some people can't control eating but can control everything else. People with aspergers, a lot anyhow, absolutely do not have control of their life.0
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I believe that it can be real.
You can become addicted to drugs, sex, gambling, all sorts of things, so why not food.
There are people who do suffer from it. The hospital that I work at offers free classes to the community for those who are addicted to overeating and it's like a weekly AA meeting they attend to help them break the habit.
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I think it's worth noting that drug addiction and eating disorders are pretty normal in the aspergers community and I only say that because someone else mentioned that it's weird that some people can't control eating but can control everything else. People with aspergers, a lot anyhow, absolutely do not have control of their life.
If you mean my comment, you are misinterpreting it.
I was trying to reference the frustration that someone might feel who has a lot of self control in other areas, so knows she has self control, but nevertheless feeling out of control about food.
I don't think that's addiction, but I do think it's why people want to go there -- they can't understand why they have so much trouble with self control in this one area.
I know nothing about aspergers, but I do know that alcoholism and eating disorders tend to be common in people who are very much control freaks and who can be incredibly controlled, at least until they completely lose it.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I think it's worth noting that drug addiction and eating disorders are pretty normal in the aspergers community and I only say that because someone else mentioned that it's weird that some people can't control eating but can control everything else. People with aspergers, a lot anyhow, absolutely do not have control of their life.
If you mean my comment, you are misinterpreting it.
I was trying to reference the frustration that someone might feel who has a lot of self control in other areas, so knows she has self control, but nevertheless feeling out of control about food.
I don't think that's addiction, but I do think it's why people want to go there -- they can't understand why they have so much trouble with self control in this one area.
I know nothing about aspergers, but I do know that alcoholism and eating disorders tend to be common in people who are very much control freaks and who can be incredibly controlled, at least until they completely lose it.
That's very interesting. I have aspergers so I just thought of that situation without understanding your meaning.
I guess it makes sense since you see a lot of professionals with alcoholism. I think doctors were high up on the list.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »If you are getting those kinds of responses to foods that are chemically basically identical to foods that do not result in the same cravings -- and that's how it is with almost all trigger foods that people identify, since foods really aren't all that distinctive on a chemical level -- then it has to be some combination of taste response plus the psychological meaning you place in the food. (That's it's psychological doesn't make it less real; it just suggests that maybe it's something that could be overcome if you cared to do so. Not saying you should.)
Really often, thinking you can't control yourself around a food makes it true.
White pasta is essentially identical to any other processed grain, especially wheat-based -- for example, bread. It's also not that different from most whole wheat pastas, because the difference in the amount of fiber is not particularly high. (I eat whole wheat pasta because I like it just as well usually and it has slight nutritional advantages IMO, but the effect on me is identical.) If you combine it with fat (i.e., cheese) then it becomes chemically about the same as any other combination of processed grain and fat -- bagel and cream cheese or a butter cookie or even a Kit Kat, I think. But there are always psychological meanings that foods have -- mac and cheese certainly could be a comfort food.
Anyway, who knows why one thing becomes a trigger vs. another -- contrary to the usual dogma around here, for me it's no more likely to be a carb-based food that I have trouble not overeating than something else. I think it's complicated and a real thing. I simply DON'T think it's really about the physical reaction to the food, as people will claim a reaction to, say, donuts and not cake. Thus, we aren't talking about addiction.
I don't spend a ton of time thinking about it. They created cravings I didn't want to deal with and they got eliminated.
If it were a lack of self-control, the lack of self-control would manifest itself when I ate things I liked eating. The more I liked them, the harder it would be to control myself. That just isn't the case.
It's an issue with the white bread and pasta, not with my ability to exercise self-control.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »The only success I've had of getting off cigarettes was switching to a vape for 7 months...three weeks ago I switched back to cigarettes. So technically I never quit nicotine. It really sucks and makes you feel like a failure.
I personally think it can be an addiction. Especially if it interferes with or controls your life. These are a little embarrassing but I have a bad history of food and its lead me to believe that I am addicted. Even now that my appetite has subsided with low carb its SUPER easy for me to fall into old habits.
-I would take my daughters Halloween candy and replace it later when she didn't notice
-I've stolen food from friends houses
-I've woken up in the night to eat things sometimes even twice to three times a night
-I would actually go sit in a drive thru contemplating buying food and I'd decide not to, drive away, come back, drive away, come back, buy something, hate myself and try to throw the food away, couldnt bring myself to throw it away, and end up driving the food behind a grocery store or something eating it and crying.
-I've actually skipped family outings and in highschool I'd skip classes to go get ice cream or some other snack because I knew nobody would see me
-I'd make a dessert for my husband and I'd keep it in the fridge and it would almost have me sweating trying not to eat the damn thing so I'd decide I could have one bite and then I'd put the dessert back but I'd come back every 10-15 minutes for another bite until I realized it was half gone the next day
-I've held off on cigarettes so I'd have time for food. for example if my husband was leaving to go to the gas station or something and I really really needed a cigarette, I'd hold out so I could eat a candy bar or something while he was gone, then go out and smoke.
It wasn't really bingeing though because I've never really sat down and ate a crap ton in one sitting. I've been to a few therapists about bringing and they didn't think that was my problem. I know that this was mostly with fast food, cookies, plain sugar by the teaspoon, donuts, etc. It did happen with other foods though in the absence of those treats but it felt empty if I didn't get what I wanted. Honestly it felt very similar to needing a cigarette. It makes you angry, it makes you restless, its all you can think about, and you physically feel like there's something not right about your body.
It could have a lot to do with my childhood but I honestly don't know. I was raised on snack cakes and sodas and pizza fast food etc. My mom bought me my own personal two liters when i was like 6. That's not a joke either. That was my entire diet until I got a little older and started researching food and wondering why I was fatter than the other kids.
my boring post is over lol.
Your post was far from boring. I read it last night and woke up this morning thinking about it so I came back to read it again. I know that it must have taken courage to share your story.
I wish I had answers or even just a bit of advice to share with you. I hope that you continue to find ways to deal with your situation. I wish you the strength and courage to continue battling.
I know this isn't the response desired, but a LOT of that sounds to me like the result of demonizing certain kinds of food and saying you can't have them. I think that really often results in disordered behaviors like secret eating and obsessing and overeating when you do eat. I'd recommend some of the people who write about mindful and intuitive eating, even though I am not a true believer in intuitive eating.
One book I enjoyed that's more reporting than self-help but still has lots of those elements and good talk about these issues and how they can mess up your thinking is Laura Fraser's Losing It.
I've also recently heard Isabel Foxen Duke interviewed on some podcasts, and I think she had some valuable things to say, and would recommend Nia Shanks' podcast--less for the workout stuff and more for the eating issue stuff. Her interview of Heather from the Half Size Me podcast was particularly worthwhile, IMO.
I don't know LC what the answer is. How can I when science still doesn't know.
I'm not sure how this responds to what I said, which was more directed at midpath, but it's interesting.
I don't think science will "know," because I think what we are talking about is psychological, not science.I didn't gain weight because of any addiction...sugar wasn't the issue...not fast food or even processed. I gained weight because I used food as a crutch to ease the pain of other things in my life. As I gained weight I found out that I could hide behind the fat...didn't have to worry about putting myself out there to hurt again. Yes...the added weight was painful but at least I was doing it to myself instead of someone else doing it.
Yes, this is not so different from me.Another poster popped in and threw out "self control". I think that just trivializes the situation. If I could have found the self-control when I was "hiding"...I would have used it. In the case of someone like midpath and her story help is needed beyond just someone saying "get some self-control".
I don't think "self-control" trivializes it, but I think it's difficult or more complicated. Why can someone have control in other areas and not this one, for example? What tactics allow for the necessary motivation or minimize the need to rely on willpower (which is a finite resource)?It took me many years to come to terms with my eating habits and why I was over eating. I struggled to change those things...it took work...a lot of hard work to finally understand that I was worthy of a good life. I still have moments occasionally where I find myself slipping back in to old ways of thinking. Finally at this point...for me...it is about self-control.
I actually think this is similar to what most of us are saying. I see the "I can't help it, it's an addiction" or the facile claims that "sugar" or "carbs" or "pizza" is addictive to be contrary to this kind of thoughtful approach to the problem.
I'd recommend the book and podcasts I mentioned if only to demonstrate that I'm not just saying "use self control."
I do think that's an understandable and frustrated response to the people who say "you don't get it, it's much harder for me, I'm addicted." (That said, I generally try not to go there, since I think self-control is necessary but there are a lot of things that can make it possible and easier.)
I saved a copy of your post so that I could follow those links when I have more time. I find the subject very interesting. I am always curious as to why people do what they do...in this case overeat but not limited to that.
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Do you believe it's real? Why or why not?
I'm talking addiction in the sense that you can't control it and it hinders your life. Like beyond emotional eating.
I've never heard of fat people robbing stores to pay for their Little Debbie habit. Unless there is evidence of that, clearly food addiction is something different than meth or heroin addiction.
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sheldonklein wrote: »
But you have to have an opinion to post here. The fact that you have no basis for an opinion is just an excuse. ☺PeachyCarol wrote: »I found some of the following interesting...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/
Abstract
There is a high degree of overlap between brain regions involved in processing natural rewards and drugs of abuse. “Non-drug” or “behavioral” addictions have become increasingly documented in the clinic, and pathologies include compulsive activities such as shopping, eating, exercising, sexual behavior, and gambling. Like drug addiction, non-drug addictions manifest in symptoms including craving, impaired control over the behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, and high rates of relapse. These alterations in behavior suggest that plasticity may be occurring in brain regions associated with drug addiction. In this review, I summarize data demonstrating that exposure to non-drug rewards can alter neural plasticity in regions of the brain that are affected by drugs of abuse. Research suggests that there are several similarities between neuroplasticity induced by natural and drug rewards and that, depending on the reward, repeated exposure to natural rewards might induce neuroplasticity that either promotes or counteracts addictive behavior.
Along with this study...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210935/
Moreover, because non-drug addictions share the classical definition of addiction with substance abuse and dependence, which includes engaging in the behavior despite serious negative consequences, a new category called “Addiction and Related Behavior” was proposed by the American Psychological Association prior to the publication of DSM-V; this category should include behavioral addictions as well as addictions to natural rewards
***
I admit that I have only begun to do reading on "Food Addiction". I never really thought about it until after joining MFP and so many people were claiming to be addicted. Is it real...IDK...but evidently at least some scientist believe that it is worth more extensive study.
I think you missed the point of several posts made already which allowed for speculative papers like this already. It's already been stated that research into this is being done and is in its infancy.
HOWEVER, that's beside the point.
The real point?
Self-diagnosis.
It would trivialize the devastating effects of alcoholism for someone who drank too much at the family barbecue to call themselves an alcoholic.
It trivializes the devastating reality of true Binge Eating Disorder for people who eat a whole box of cookes to call themselves binge eaters.
And it trivializes the nature of true addiction for people to self-label and diagnose themselves with it.
Whether food addiction exists or not is still being determined by scientists.
In the end, should such a determination is made, people who feel they have an issue with it would get a diagnosis.
I have a feeling it would be quite rare.
In response...
Deleted my post because...
I only posted those links because I found them interesting. As I stated above I have never really done any research in to "Food Addiction".
If I missed the point of other people's post...sorry but honestly those links weren't posted to refute anyone elses opinions.
I am not sure that I have an opinion on "Food Addiction" at this point. I was just curious as to what studies have been done and thought some others might be also.
Sorry...
An excuse for what???
I don't have an opinion on you either...I will try to form one though...let you know if I get one.
Is there a rule book that comes with posting here other than the TOS established by MFP? Does it say that I have to have an opinion in order to post here?
If you have the rule book please forward it to me.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »no...lack of will power or self control does not equal addiction. most people have no idea what it's like to actually be an addict and they throw the term around very loosely. It's *kitten*.
How would you know that any of the people who identify as a food addict don't also have/formerly had a problem with substance abuse/gambling/sex addiction and so do know exactly what it's like to be an addict?
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »IMO it's like gluten intolerance: it exists but almost everyone who claims to have it is mistaken.
Except that close to 1% of the population has celiac disease and about 6% have non-celiac gluten sensitivity (NCGS), which causes the same symptoms varying in severity) as celiac disease except for the intestinal villi destruction or the maddening dermatitis herpetiformis rash.
According to this statement, a minority of people may not mistaken.
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@sixfarmhicks. That is exactly how my dad feels about alcohol, and he's been stone cold sober for almost 25 years. He would even go to a baseball game anymore because the temptation is still so strong.
I do believe that can happen with food and wish you the best dealing with it.
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PeachyCarol wrote: »I found some of the following interesting...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/
Abstract
There is a high degree of overlap between brain regions involved in processing natural rewards and drugs of abuse. “Non-drug” or “behavioral” addictions have become increasingly documented in the clinic, and pathologies include compulsive activities such as shopping, eating, exercising, sexual behavior, and gambling. Like drug addiction, non-drug addictions manifest in symptoms including craving, impaired control over the behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, and high rates of relapse. These alterations in behavior suggest that plasticity may be occurring in brain regions associated with drug addiction. In this review, I summarize data demonstrating that exposure to non-drug rewards can alter neural plasticity in regions of the brain that are affected by drugs of abuse. Research suggests that there are several similarities between neuroplasticity induced by natural and drug rewards and that, depending on the reward, repeated exposure to natural rewards might induce neuroplasticity that either promotes or counteracts addictive behavior.
Along with this study...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210935/
Moreover, because non-drug addictions share the classical definition of addiction with substance abuse and dependence, which includes engaging in the behavior despite serious negative consequences, a new category called “Addiction and Related Behavior” was proposed by the American Psychological Association prior to the publication of DSM-V; this category should include behavioral addictions as well as addictions to natural rewards
***
I admit that I have only begun to do reading on "Food Addiction". I never really thought about it until after joining MFP and so many people were claiming to be addicted. Is it real...IDK...but evidently at least some scientist believe that it is worth more extensive study.
I think you missed the point of several posts made already which allowed for speculative papers like this already. It's already been stated that research into this is being done and is in its infancy.
HOWEVER, that's beside the point.
The real point?
Self-diagnosis.
It would trivialize the devastating effects of alcoholism for someone who drank too much at the family barbecue to call themselves an alcoholic.
It trivializes the devastating reality of true Binge Eating Disorder for people who eat a whole box of cookes to call themselves binge eaters.
And it trivializes the nature of true addiction for people to self-label and diagnose themselves with it.
Whether food addiction exists or not is still being determined by scientists.
In the end, should such a determination is made, people who feel they have an issue with it would get a diagnosis.
I have a feeling it would be quite rare.
While I do appreciate your point about trivialization, one certainly does not have to have an official diagnosis to have an addiction.
In the National Longitudinal Alcohol Epidemiologic Survey, ...the vast majority of Americans who were alcohol dependent, about three-quarters, never underwent treatment. (And presumably therefore never received a diagnosis.
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sheldonklein wrote: »Until there is a common understanding of what addiction means and why it matters we are just talking past each other. If it matters because it relieves someone of responsibility for what they eat, then no, it doesn't exist. If it matters for some other reason, i need an explanation.
I think the only reason it would matter for another reason would honestly be in the way treatment for the people diagnosed with it would be handled.
For now, I think the self-diagnosers are using it to absolve themselves of personal responsibility, whether they realize this or not.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »If you are getting those kinds of responses to foods that are chemically basically identical to foods that do not result in the same cravings -- and that's how it is with almost all trigger foods that people identify, since foods really aren't all that distinctive on a chemical level -- then it has to be some combination of taste response plus the psychological meaning you place in the food. (That's it's psychological doesn't make it less real; it just suggests that maybe it's something that could be overcome if you cared to do so. Not saying you should.)
Really often, thinking you can't control yourself around a food makes it true.
White pasta is essentially identical to any other processed grain, especially wheat-based -- for example, bread. It's also not that different from most whole wheat pastas, because the difference in the amount of fiber is not particularly high. (I eat whole wheat pasta because I like it just as well usually and it has slight nutritional advantages IMO, but the effect on me is identical.) If you combine it with fat (i.e., cheese) then it becomes chemically about the same as any other combination of processed grain and fat -- bagel and cream cheese or a butter cookie or even a Kit Kat, I think. But there are always psychological meanings that foods have -- mac and cheese certainly could be a comfort food.
Anyway, who knows why one thing becomes a trigger vs. another -- contrary to the usual dogma around here, for me it's no more likely to be a carb-based food that I have trouble not overeating than something else. I think it's complicated and a real thing. I simply DON'T think it's really about the physical reaction to the food, as people will claim a reaction to, say, donuts and not cake. Thus, we aren't talking about addiction.
I don't spend a ton of time thinking about it. They created cravings I didn't want to deal with and they got eliminated.
If it were a lack of self-control, the lack of self-control would manifest itself when I ate things I liked eating. The more I liked them, the harder it would be to control myself. That just isn't the case.
It's an issue with the white bread and pasta, not with my ability to exercise self-control.
Self-control isn't always universal.
I used to be able to exercise restraint with many things, but when it came to certain things? Nope.
Lemurcat is right. If you don't have a similar reaction to a food that's essentially the same chemical/ingredient composition, you're the problem, not the pasta.
I had to admit this to myself when I realized I had no trouble stopping at 2 chocolate chip cookies, but could not help myself when it came to brownies.
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I found some of the following interesting...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139704/
Abstract
There is a high degree of overlap between brain regions involved in processing natural rewards and drugs of abuse. “Non-drug” or “behavioral” addictions have become increasingly documented in the clinic, and pathologies include compulsive activities such as shopping, eating, exercising, sexual behavior, and gambling. Like drug addiction, non-drug addictions manifest in symptoms including craving, impaired control over the behavior, tolerance, withdrawal, and high rates of relapse. These alterations in behavior suggest that plasticity may be occurring in brain regions associated with drug addiction. In this review, I summarize data demonstrating that exposure to non-drug rewards can alter neural plasticity in regions of the brain that are affected by drugs of abuse. Research suggests that there are several similarities between neuroplasticity induced by natural and drug rewards and that, depending on the reward, repeated exposure to natural rewards might induce neuroplasticity that either promotes or counteracts addictive behavior.
Along with this study...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4210935/
Moreover, because non-drug addictions share the classical definition of addiction with substance abuse and dependence, which includes engaging in the behavior despite serious negative consequences, a new category called “Addiction and Related Behavior” was proposed by the American Psychological Association prior to the publication of DSM-V; this category should include behavioral addictions as well as addictions to natural rewards
***
I admit that I have only begun to do reading on "Food Addiction". I never really thought about it until after joining MFP and so many people were claiming to be addicted. Is it real...IDK...but evidently at least some scientist believe that it is worth more extensive study.
Since your first link mentions neuroplasticity, I thought I'd share this very interesting book on the topic: The Brain That Changes Itself: Stories of Personal Triumph from the Frontiers of Brain Science
And ooo, his new book is out The Brain's Way of Healing: Remarkable Discoveries and Recoveries from the Frontiers of Neuroplasticity! And available for download from my library
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PumpJockeyy wrote: »True addiction, IMO, means quitting has some physical effect, some kind of uncomfortable withdrawal. Even caffeine, with it's painful withdrawal headaches would count as an addiction...a mild one, but it qualifies. My pasta issue doesn't.
This.
Binge eating/lack of self control isn't "addiction".
^^ All of the above.
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sixfarmhicks wrote: »Thanks nvsmomketo for the detailed explanation and personal testimony, I won't go on repeating what you have already written about withdrawal and physical symptoms.
From other comments here I gather that some folks doubt that one could be a food addict. People have opinions often based solely on their own experiences, rather than actual knowledge. I am jealous and wish I was like those people who don't have personal experiences of food addiction.
Overweight people are often viewed as having a low socioeconomic status, as being unintelligent, dirty, and lacking self control. Let's not lie to ourselves. We judge (to some extent without even realizing it). When a fat person dresses well, has a good job, is smart, or has a salad for lunch we see the person as a fraud. I do it too, shame on me.
Foods are not just fiber, vitamins, water, and flavor. While whole foods are best for our bodies, the foods we eat in our society are usually processed to some degree and are enhanced with derivatives from other food sources.
For example: Sugar (which by definition is a drug). We take the sugar molecules out of sugar beets or sugar cane and add them to another foods to make them sweet(er). That concentrated derivative, or extract of a plant, is addictive. I bet we can all name other plant extracts that are addictive...
I'm addicted to Sugar.
It's real. It's really real. Until I realized what was happening to me I thought that I just really loved sugar (you know... straight from the bag if I couldn't find a cookie) I thought that I had no self control. I thought that I was just a "pig" and eating my emotions.
At almost 50 years old I can look back on my life and eating habits and tell you that I am a food addict. The only constant thread that weaves through my life of weight loss and gain is excess sugar and flour. It hasn't mattered if I was happy, sad, or angry. I ate them to extreme. It didn't matter what my circumstances were or how aware I was of what it did to my body.... I ate it. I couldn't get enough. I was ashamed.
Food is not my best friend. I don't have a love for cooking or baking. I forget to eat when I am busy. I appear "normal" aside from the extra pounds (that I am loosing for the last time).
Cravings are your body's way of telling you it needs something, such as protein, salt, vitamins, and carbohydrates. For me, eating sugar or flour is not controlled by a craving. My body wants them in excessive amounts so I can keep getting my "fix". Like a drug. I wake up wanting sugar. I go to bed after eating sugar and then dream of eating sweets. This is not a self-control issue.
Once I start eating them, I'm consumed by thoughts and desires of eating sugary foods, or foods containing flour.
I can't eat them AT ALL or it triggers awful binges and food orgies that last for hours or days.
I am so tired of trying to loose the same 50 pounds only to gain it back as soon as I reintroduce my old foods (because everyone around me can have just one and stop... I should be able to too, right?) . I can't be trusted to eat just a little bit. I sneak food. I eat whenever I get a chance. I always always always choose desserts, sometimes skipping meals and only eating desserts for days on end. I usually don't realize I am doing it, because of denial, and because eating is expected. I would tell people that I have a HUGE sweet tooth (politically correct understatement)... and that donuts are the perfect food (sugar and bread). I'm tired of not feeling like I can control my desire to EAT, CHEW, or TASTE... only to be unsatisified and want more and more even though I am full and physically sick.
No, I am not unintelligent. No, I am not making it up.
It's hard to change the way I have always behaved toward food, especially when those around me don't have a problem with it.
Sometimes I still want it. But, if I don't eat it at all, I have a much easier time saying 'no'.
Wow - this sounds exactly like I wrote it. Know that you definitely are not alone in struggling with this and that such addiction issues are as real as anything.
I wish there was some kind of "willpower" medicine one could take. I know exactly how to go about living a healthy lifestyle and want it so desperately, but I simply cannot control my actions no matter how hard I try. It is so frustrating.0 -
I find it hard to believe. Gluttony, now that exists0
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