Why gastric bypass if calorie deficit works?
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A couple of things. One is the amount of time it takes to lose a lot of weight. Most get extremely frustrated. I hit a 45lb wall over and over - over the course of about 25 years. The other is the volume factor. Most people do not get that not only do they like to eat; they like to eat a lot. For a period of time, that is taken away. It is taken away for most people long enough to make serious inroads into losing weight.
I do agree with you that many think it's the answer instead of a tool. That somehow the surgery will take away all the issues, and that is simply not true. I can't even read the message boards anymore on the WLS sites because of the whole lack of accountability in how they got the way they did, and what they need to do to take off the weight after surgery and keep it off.
Surgery is extreme. It can be costly. It can be dangerous. But for me, it gave me back my life in a reasonable time frame. I do not regret any part of doing it. What I do miss since having the surgery is not caring about food. I loved not caring about food after I had surgery. I am 4 years out, so I'm able to eat enough to gain weight. I'm right back where I was - having to watch what I put in my mouth and move, but at least I am normal weight and have those issues.
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PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »StaciMarie1974 wrote: »I think it boils down to which is the best of 2 bad scenarios? Undergo a risky surgery to lose weight FAST or take your chances on dieing in the very near future from weight related illness/complications.
Weight loss surgery, or any surgery, comes with risks. You'd only consider it if it was a last resort. If you're so overweight that odds are strong that you'll die within weeks or months of heart attack or such, you may not have the luxury of time. Losing weight at the rate of 2-3 pounds a week by calorie reduction alone may not lower your other health risks fast enough.
Unfortunately, a lot of that isn't true. Many people elect surgery aren't in immediate danger of death, and they're doing it INSTEAD of making an honest effort losing the traditional way, with help from professionals if need be. It's just given out way too freely these days.
Do you have any evidence to back that up?0 -
I also had surgery 4 years ago. I lost 80 lbs in about 6 months. With that loss I was at a weight that I could finally feel good enough to exercise. I have since gained back 35lbs but I am working on taking it off again. I have lost 15lbs in 6 weeks by watching what I eat and hitting the treadmill 5 days a week. Prior to my surgery I had never been successful at losing 15lbs. Watching what I eat is much easier now as I get full much faster.
I only have 30 lbs to go to my goal weight and I can see the end of the tunnel. With out surgery I don't think I would have ever seen the end of fighting my weight, depression and health problems.
Surgery was the answer for me because it gave me back my self confidence. I had some potentially life threatening health issues prior to surgery that were resolved almost immediately.
My husband has also had the surgery and we're both very happy we did it.0 -
Some thoughts as a surgery patient...
-I had gastric bypass January 2015. It wasn't a quick decision. It took about 5 years. I had a good diet, good exercise habits, good lifestyle habits, and none of it mattered.
-It wasn't easy to qualify for surgery. It took 2 years, 6 doctors (including endocrine, bariatric, GI, cardiology) all coming to the same conclusion... that I had no other choice. That wasn't peer pressure, it was science and data.
-It's not easy to remain "compliant" so the insurance will continue to pay for follow-up. If I become non-compliant any time in the next 10 years and have a bypass-related issue, it's my $$ to fix it once I'm out of danger of death.
-It wasn't about willpower. I've been on a strict diet for the majority of 5 years. I still gained, although slower than when I ate normally. My "normal" diet for the previous 15 years was still much healthier than the average American.
-It's not just about exercise. If that were the case, the 10-15 hours I put in each week before surgery would have mattered. Running (not jogging), kick boxing, yoga, weight lifting... every week. It only kept me from gaining faster, not maintain and not lose.
-The body is a complex chemistry set, so "eat less and exercise more" is an overly simplistic answer to a complex problem. If it really were that simple, there would be far fewer overweight people. I'd be one of them without surgery.
-It's not a magic bullet; weight loss even after surgery doesn't "just happen." I monitor my intake more than ever, because now, literally every calorie matters. It's a daily struggle to eat properly and exercise... just like it is for everyone else.
-The qualification criteria varies between doctors and insurance companies, but few just allow it for no reason. A high BMI is a reason and if you're lucky, it's the only reason you have. Whether it's "too easy" or "too hard" depends on the person, their need, and their life experiences. You don't get to judge that.
-Any thought that WLS is "the easy way out" is just pure ignorance of the prep, procedure, follow-up, and the body itself. I'd really rather be back pre-surgery, if pre-surgery had worked. It didn't, so I took the next step medically, which hasn't been easy in the slightest.
I have a blog on Blogspot under this same name detailing the journey from the moment I said, "Yes," to present. It's just one person's perspective, but every perspective you read is another moment you can educate yourself about what bariatric surgery is really like, not just the hype and myths.0 -
I've seen people get the bypass surgery and gain even more weight because they aren't adjusting to eating properly afterwards. Or I've seen them eat so much that they are puking afterwards. Either way you need to be in the right mind set0
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Some thoughts as a surgery patient...
-I had gastric bypass January 2015. It wasn't a quick decision. It took about 5 years. I had a good diet, good exercise habits, good lifestyle habits, and none of it mattered.
-It wasn't easy to qualify for surgery. It took 2 years, 6 doctors (including endocrine, bariatric, GI, cardiology) all coming to the same conclusion... that I had no other choice. That wasn't peer pressure, it was science and data.
-It's not easy to remain "compliant" so the insurance will continue to pay for follow-up. If I become non-compliant any time in the next 10 years and have a bypass-related issue, it's my $$ to fix it once I'm out of danger of death.
-It wasn't about willpower. I've been on a strict diet for the majority of 5 years. I still gained, although slower than when I ate normally. My "normal" diet for the previous 15 years was still much healthier than the average American.
-It's not just about exercise. If that were the case, the 10-15 hours I put in each week before surgery would have mattered. Running (not jogging), kick boxing, yoga, weight lifting... every week. It only kept me from gaining faster, not maintain and not lose.
-The body is a complex chemistry set, so "eat less and exercise more" is an overly simplistic answer to a complex problem. If it really were that simple, there would be far fewer overweight people. I'd be one of them without surgery.
-It's not a magic bullet; weight loss even after surgery doesn't "just happen." I monitor my intake more than ever, because now, literally every calorie matters. It's a daily struggle to eat properly and exercise... just like it is for everyone else.
-The qualification criteria varies between doctors and insurance companies, but few just allow it for no reason. A high BMI is a reason and if you're lucky, it's the only reason you have. Whether it's "too easy" or "too hard" depends on the person, their need, and their life experiences. You don't get to judge that.
-Any thought that WLS is "the easy way out" is just pure ignorance of the prep, procedure, follow-up, and the body itself. I'd really rather be back pre-surgery, if pre-surgery had worked. It didn't, so I took the next step medically, which hasn't been easy in the slightest.
I have a blog on Blogspot under this same name detailing the journey from the moment I said, "Yes," to present. It's just one person's perspective, but every perspective you read is another moment you can educate yourself about what bariatric surgery is really like, not just the hype and myths.
Congrats! How much have you lost so far?0 -
@Geddes, I've had a couple "episodes" (wanting to puke) after surgery. I can just barely eat a normal portion of meat, for instance, and taking just one extra bite will set me over the edge. So I eat slowly and as soon as I am full (my new full), I stop.
That's good! You should be very proud! For a lot of people they don't stop. They keep stuffing themselves and can stretch the new pouch out just as big as their full sized stomach. I have a cousin that did this and now she's even bigger then she was before the surgery! I'm proud of you
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barbecuesauce wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »WLS is major surgery and it is something I would avoid unless it was absolutely necessary. However there are people who need WLS to help control their appetite and assist them to lose weight. Ultimately you have to adapt a new lifestyle whether with WLS or losing weight with diet and exercise. I was watching My 600 lb life and the surgeon on the show takes a no nonsense no excuses approach with his patients. One of the things he said has become one of my go to quotes for motivation. He said
"Health is not an occasional choice. It is a way of life"
I really like that doctor, especially when he says things like "If you're not going to be honest and do the work, I can't help you." It pisses people off, but also shows how the surgery didn't change the situation as much as the patients expected, even though they nodded and agreed to making lifestyle changes on their own before the surgery. They walk in for follow-ups and lie right to his face (or else they've been lying to themselves) and want him to do...what, exactly?
I wonder if for some patients the surgery is just a way of getting constant feedback from their medical staff? The required follow up visits, managing any discomforts or complications, etc. All just a launching pad to get ongoing counseling on the subject. They might not have that on a traditional eat less move more plan. Just throwing stuff out there
That would fit a friend of mine to a tee. She needs constant attention and assurance so perhaps that was an attraction for the surgery. Who knows?
What's crazier to me is the people who gain to have surgery. I worked with a woman who had to gain like 30 pounds to get the insurance to cover it. And she would complain that the weight wasn't coming on fast enough.
My brother in law did this, but he's a moron so we'll leave it at that. LOL0 -
My primary care provider actually asked me if I wanted a referral to a surgeon for surgery. At the time I was 200 lbs at 5 ft 3 in. My only medical problem was hydronephrosis due to a kidney stone lodged in my ureter! I was insulted. We never talked diet or exercise, it was straight to surgery. There had also been three deaths in my family in a short time, including my dad , so I was in a funk.0
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...more thoughts from a surgery patient!!
- I got denied the 1st time by my primary doctor to have the surgery. She suggested other programs to lose weight which I tried every one of them and failed.
- When I was finally approved for the surgery, it was a year long process. I had to take classes on exercising, nutrition, and how the surgery was going to affect me mentally. I also had to attend seminars and support groups. I had to put in some work because I was serious about the surgery
- Post op...the first 2 months were rough. I had to learn somewhat how to eat again. You are given "rules" when you have the surgery. If you follow them, you will be successful. If you don't, you gain the weight back.
- It was the BEST decision I ever made for ME..no one else in my life. I knew it wasn't a quick fix...I knew it was a "tool" to lose weight.
- I had surgery 5 years ago this month. I lost a total of 126 lbs. Yes, I have gained a few back but it was because I wasn't working out or eating right. My weight is a personal struggle for ME still.. that's why MFP is another "tool" I use to keep my health and weight in check.
No matter what I post or not post, people are going to judge me, my decisions, my actions, and what I put in my mouth every single day. Its ok...its just how the world is nowadays.
...and now its my lunch break and Im going to walk on the treadmill.
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My mom is one of those who had the surgery (gastric bypass, specifically) and never fully adapted her eating habits. She still gets dumping syndrome about once a week, and also spends one or two nights a week wandering around with hiccups because she has undigested food in her esophagus because she ate faster than her stomach can empty...
...She's still kept off 85% of the weigh she lost. She's in her 10th year since the surgery, I think?
People can screw up somewhat and still succeed with the surgery. I had a sleeve gastrectomy four months ago and (so far) I've found that even when I have a really bad day and binge, I'm clocking in well under 3000 calories, whereas a bad-day-binge for me used to mean 4000+. Good days look more like 1300-1500 calories, which I think is a pretty incredible deficit for a 6'1", 320lb. man0 -
This is from my own personal experience! No I have not had a gastric bypass, but I did look into it as an option. I went to the classes and started losing some weight and increasing my activity all on schedule with the process leading up to the surgery. My personal take on it for me was that it was an easy way out. After hearing about all the stuff that ones body goes through to get smaller because I can't really say healthier (just my opinion) I realized I was not ready. I knew what to do because I was doing it but I just was not ready to commit myself to making the change at that time - for me it was like taking a pill that would make you sick every time you ate sugar or something, an option to allow myself to not be ultimately responsible.
I hope that each person has really done so deep soul searching before going through this process. Sad, but I know this not to always be the case. With the insurance that I have there was at least a year of pre-op counseling before surgery would even be scheduled but I could have changed medical plans and had the surgery as soon as there was a time available with no counseling. While I guess it can be life changing for some, this is not the rule, the stomach while shrunk by surgery will stretch and become larger over time. . .0 -
I was considering weight loss surgery and my doctor told me to diet and exercise for 6 months first. After a few months, I didn't want the surgery anymore and decided to do it on my own. In the last 13 months I have lost 130 lbs and have 30 left to lose.
That's awesome, congrats!
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Remember the adage: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Kudos to all who have lost weight and kept it off!!0
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Because many aren't willing to change habitual behaviors. The reality is that behavior (unless there's a medical condition) is why people overeat/undereat, go to sleep late, etc.
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This is true, but not as true as some people think it is.the stomach while shrunk by surgery will stretch and become larger over time. . .
Speaking just about the surgery I had (vertical sleeve gastrectomy), since it's the one I did the most research on...
For 90+% of people -- last time I checked, I believe it was something like 97%? -- the stomach never again reaches its original size. For most people, it never even gets close, mainly because morbidly obese people tend to have very big, stretched-out stomachs before the surgery, and the surgery leaves you with a stomach that is much smaller than your original stomach ever was -- like, even when I was a teenager, my stomach was already much larger than the 4oz sleeve that was left after the surgery. My surgeon says a typical patient's stomach will expand to about 8oz in the year or two after the surgery.
The average adult male's stomach capacity is over 30oz. My stomach would have to double in size two more times to get there. It could happen, and has happened to other people, but it almost never does. I feel really bad for the 2-3% who have a lot of stomach expansion after the surgery, because it is a huge bummer to have major surgery for what ends up being no benefit...
(Also, obviously, it's possible to get obese again with a smaller stomach. So even though my stomach will never be as big as it used to be, I could still get as fat as I used to be. That is also not common, but definitely still happens.)0 -
Criteria for the surgery include must that they must have at least 2 weight-related co-morbidities.0
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Interesting thread.
I don't know if this is slightly off topic, but I don't know how the methods differ: sleeve vs. bypass, and why one is chosen over another.
Just for my own understanding, is anyone willing to educate me? I've heard these terms but never really understood what they mean.0 -
Binky, in a nutshell...
Sleeve... the excess parts of your stomach are removed, so the remainder is sort of a tube or banana-shape. It turns the stomach bag into a sleeve. This is a good option for those with less than 100lbs to lose.
Bypass... literally, part of the intestines are bypassed when the stomach is cut and a new pouch is formed. The portion of the intestine that's bypassed is responsible for more than half of the calories, some nutrition, and all sugar processing. This is a good option for those who need to lose 150lbs or more.
I can go into more detail, but that's it in a nutshell. With the sleeve, you get a smaller stomach. With the bypass, you get a new one.0 -
@BinkyBonk those are two different surgeries. I'll provide a link if you want to know how they are different.
http://www.harleystreetbariatrics.com/news/what-is-the-difference-between-a-gastric-bypass-and-gastric-sleeve.php
It all depends on the needs of the patient and the desired outcomes. I had the bypass. It is the oldest surgery and on average results in the greatest loss. It also has good results for people with type 2 diabetes (i.e. like me). A downside is mal-absorption issues for some vitamins, so is not such a good option for women who still want to have children (i.e. not like me).0 -
I think it is a personal choice between a patient and his/her doctor. I would never do it because (and these are probably dumb reasons, but they are *my* reasons: 1) On all the TV shows, the people who have the surgery and lose fast (or ever those who don't have surgery but lose fast, like on "Biggest Loser") have loose skin. I'm hoping by losing it slow, I will not have loose skin. 2) I don't want a scar from the surgery on my stomach. I've seen some big ones! 3) IT IS SURGERY! When I was normal weight, I had to have my gallbladder removed, and the surgery caused a hernia. Well, two years later when I got the hernia corrected, I was flipping out because I had gained about 35 lbs and I was afraid of not waking up from anesthesia. The surgeon was a patient and kind man, and he told me, "You're not that overweight...and trust me, I do lots of bariatric surgeries on people two to three times your size, and in general, they wake up fine. I was comforted by his words, but made a mental note to never have bariatric surgery. On the other hand, if my doctor told me I needed the surgery for dire health purposes, then I think I would do it. I wouldn't have much of a choice. I think a lot of people who get this surgery feel they don't have a choice.0
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I firmly believe that everyone has a choice. Rolling out of bed every morning is a choice. For me, opting for surgery was a choice towards health. Like taking my diabetes seriously, regularly monitoring my blood sugars, and choosing what I eat. It's all choices.0
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I firmly believe that everyone has a choice. Rolling out of bed every morning is a choice. For me, opting for surgery was a choice towards health. Like taking my diabetes seriously, regularly monitoring my blood sugars, and choosing what I eat. It's all choices.
Oh, I totally agree -- everyone has a choice. Trust me, I know I gained all this weight because I like to eat...it was my choice (a bad choice, but still, a choice). And now, I am choosing to lose the weight, by eating less. But I think some people don't *believe* they have a choice for weight loss, and that in order to lose they must have the surgery.
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That's why I hate speculative threads like this. You are imparting motive.0
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A former coworker of mine also did it. She spent years going from fad diet to fad diet with very little result. She made no secret that she doctor shopped to find one willing to do the surgery on the schedule she wanted. After she had the surgery, she did lose weight, but her compliance was very poor. The last time I saw her she had suffered several complications that resulted from how she ate after the surgery, and had put a big portion of the weight back.
For certain people, the surgery is a valid if drastic tool to make a change and enforce it. Just like any medical intervention, it works best when the doctors are actively managing the patient's case and there are resources available to support the aftercare. When it's used as a quick fix it's very dangerous.
This is my fear. I have a friend about to undergo this and she hasn't been required to do anything but go to a few meetings. I don't think she's doctor shopped, but other people I know have had to go through months of diet and exercise before they could have the surgery. She doesn't exercise at all, and eats lots of high-calorie food. And lots of sugar as a diabetic. I pray she gets the results she wants and that she's OK.0 -
People with gastric bypass surgery need just as much willpower for just as much time and psychological support for a lot longer.
A former neighbor of mine had the surgery, lost 55 kilos ( 121 pounds, which also can be lost the CICO way in the same amount of time, especially at her start-out weight ) in her first year and about 30-35 kilos (66- 80 pounds ) in the second.
By that time she was still over 200 pounds, which was very disappointing to her and she gave up. In 14 month she gained enough to surpass her initial weight of just over 400 pounds. She died last year a week after Thanksgiving of complications from poorly managed diabetes which included organ failure and a heart attack. Unfortunately she had hoped to lose 250 pounds in no more than two years and then go back to her " real " life.
I am so very, very sorry for the loss of your neighbor. (((HUGS)))0 -
atypicalsmith wrote: »When I watch 600 pound life, I don't understand why people who can't even get out of bed are overfed by those who are taking care of them. Is it all just to get on television?
I started watching My 600 Pound Life today due to this thread. I started with Season 2, Episode 1. I was wondering if the husband was being a major jerk just to be on TV until I saw the 8 or 9 year old daughter crying.
I see where you're coming from in Season 2, Episode 2 - the woman hadn't left the house in two years and was presumably being fed by her mother. But she was so so so physically unhealthy, not to mention depressed and suicidal, that no, her mother wasn't over feeding her just to be on TV.
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