How to adjust SL 5x5?

dmt4641

I know many people say to add/change nothing to programming, I'm not a professional, just doing the program as written. But I am thinking of adding some exercises to SL 5x5 and wanted to see how to do it. I would like to add a vertical pull (pull ups or lat pulldown) and some hamstring/glute exercise (hip thrust or SLDL). Maybe some rear delt. I feel like my back/hamstrings/pull muscles are lagging compared to my shoulders/quads/push muscles.

A lot of the programs that add accessory exercises change 5x5 to 3x5 and have accessory exercises at higher reps. Is this the way to go? I would like to progress with strength on 5x5 on the main lifts and only drop to 3x5 when I can no longer up my weights on 5x5. Maybe do accessories 3x8?

A little history. I have been heavy lifting on and off (New Rules for Women, Strong Curves) for 1.5 years, but only have recently done 12 weeks of programming with built in progression (All Pros). This is my first time focusing on strength with lower reps so I am still using relatively light weights at this point. I liked All Pros a lot but the weight was progressing sooo slowly.

DawnEmbers

I tend to do my accessories 3x8 or 3x10, depending on the type and if I'm slowly working with a progression scheme in mind. Though when I first did SL, followed for 12 weeks, I didn't do very many accessories as I hadn't lifted in a long while. I did dumbbell flat bench due to recommendations from two trainers and the occasional leg press just cause I'm a fan of it. However, now after doing NROLFW I do have a few accessories that I do and I'm doing 3x5 for now instead of 5x5, but I'm also searching around to decide on whether I want to follow SL or a different program that has accessories and is still more beginner focused (compounds and 3 days a week until I find a closer gym).

I need to look up rep ranges again. I've done the 3x8 because that's what I remember doing for accessories in the past. Not sure why that number stuck with me but it did. I do 3x10 on things like good mornings and hip thrusts or if the weight is easy enough but not quite ready to increase weight as some things can only increase in 10s.

So it's considered good to follow program exact but eh, a fair amount add and things like pull ups tend to be considered good options. Maybe one day I'll be able to do one. There is also a group on here for women following stronglifts if you want to check it out and see what others do as well.

yusaku02

look up ice cream fitness, it's stronglifts plus isolations.

Azexas

yusaku02 wrote: »

look up ice cream fitness, it's stronglifts plus isolations.

Yes. Ice Cream 5x5 may be the way to go if you want accessory work also.

https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

kindrabbit

I do my madcow (very similar to stronglifts) 3 times a week and do accessories after each workout. Back and biceps on Monday, chest and triceps on Wednesday and legs on a Friday. I think I'll have a look at icecream fitness too as I am getting close to my max on the madcow routine now.

colors_fade

Troutsy wrote: »

Yes. Ice Cream 5x5 may be the way to go if you want accessory work also.

Or you could just do the accessory work and not worry about following some plan to a "T".

I did SL 5x5 verbatim for about half a year. Then I started switching things up - listening to my body mostly. I started doing ladders instead of straight 5x5, I started doing some days super-heavy with 2-3 reps, some days lighter with ladders on 5-reps (again, listening to my body), and then I started adding accessories like assisted pull-ups and dips, dumbbell bench presses, inclined press, cable pulls, etc.

The other day I read about DUP training Wow... almost by accident that's what my training evolved into.

I do all my accessory work after the three big lifts for the day. I hardly ever do a straight 5x5 on any lift anymore, but sometimes (like Monday) I break out a 5x5 for something (like bench press).

I set two PR's in the last two sessions at the gym. This, after two years of lifting - I am still getting PR's every month. And I am not following any formal plan (though DUP is very, very close to what I'm doing).

You don't *need* to follow a plan to perfection to achieve results. If you want to do accessory work, I say go for it.

dmt4641

Thanks everyone! I have looked into ICF 5x5 but the accessories seemed more geared towards a man's aesthetic goals. There are no added lower body exercises at all. I'm more interested in growing my glutes (hip thrusts) than having huge traps (shrugs). But that is just me, I know tons of women use ICF 5x5.

I will try adding some hip thrusts/glute bridges and assisted pull ups and see how it goes. If I start stalling too early I can back off on the accessories.

DoogCampbell

I did stronglifts for many months then reached the same point as you (although I had already taken the decision to move to 3x5 by that point). I wanted to add exactly what you described and started with pull-ups, tricep dips and press-ups. Several years on now I only work at 3x5. I dont squat on the deadlift days as heavy and do 3x5 at deadlift too (depite the suggestion not to).

I try and add an accessory to most of the main excercises and chose dumbell fly for the chest, single arm rear delt row for the back, straight leg deadlift and arnold press for the shoulders. I only do my accessories if I have the strength and only after doing the core program first. In this way I have actually been able to improve my min lifts as repeating the same exercises builds set patterns (even Mehdi accepts this). I think SL is a program that after the initial gains and when you are starting to feel comfortable you should start to evolve it.

yusaku02

dmt4641 wrote: »

Thanks everyone! I have looked into ICF 5x5 but the accessories seemed more geared towards a man's aesthetic goals. There are no added lower body exercises at all. I'm more interested in growing my glutes (hip thrusts) than having huge traps (shrugs). But that is just me, I know tons of women use ICF 5x5.

I will try adding some hip thrusts/glute bridges and assisted pull ups and see how it goes. If I start stalling too early I can back off on the accessories.

Squatting (heavy) three times a week and throwing in some deadlifts will be more than enough for the glutes. I have a better backyard than any girl I've ever dated thanks to those lifts.

rileyes

I am combining SL5x5 with Strong Curves (Gluteal Goddess). I just started experimenting with (SL)3x5 and small modifications to my Strong Curves program.

The_Weaze

I've recently started Strong Curves. So far I'm loving it...might be worth checking out.

DavPul

colors_fade wrote: »

Troutsy wrote: »

Yes. Ice Cream 5x5 may be the way to go if you want accessory work also.

Or you could just do the accessory work and not worry about following some plan to a "T".

I did SL 5x5 verbatim for about half a year. Then I started switching things up - listening to my body mostly. I started doing ladders instead of straight 5x5, I started doing some days super-heavy with 2-3 reps, some days lighter with ladders on 5-reps (again, listening to my body), and then I started adding accessories like assisted pull-ups and dips, dumbbell bench presses, inclined press, cable pulls, etc.

The other day I read about DUP training Wow... almost by accident that's what my training evolved into.

I do all my accessory work after the three big lifts for the day. I hardly ever do a straight 5x5 on any lift anymore, but sometimes (like Monday) I break out a 5x5 for something (like bench press).

I set two PR's in the last two sessions at the gym. This, after two years of lifting - I am still getting PR's every month. And I am not following any formal plan (though DUP is very, very close to what I'm doing).

You don't *need* to follow a plan to perfection to achieve results. If you want to do accessory work, I say go for it.

All this

jmule24

dmt4641 wrote: »

I know many people say to add/change nothing to programming, I'm not a professional, just doing the program as written. But I am thinking of adding some exercises to SL 5x5 and wanted to see how to do it. I would like to add a vertical pull (pull ups or lat pulldown) and some hamstring/glute exercise (hip thrust or SLDL). Maybe some rear delt. I feel like my back/hamstrings/pull muscles are lagging compared to my shoulders/quads/push muscles.

A lot of the programs that add accessory exercises change 5x5 to 3x5 and have accessory exercises at higher reps. Is this the way to go? I would like to progress with strength on 5x5 on the main lifts and only drop to 3x5 when I can no longer up my weights on 5x5. Maybe do accessories 3x8?

A little history. I have been heavy lifting on and off (New Rules for Women, Strong Curves) for 1.5 years, but only have recently done 12 weeks of programming with built in progression (All Pros). This is my first time focusing on strength with lower reps so I am still using relatively light weights at this point. I liked All Pros a lot but the weight was progressing sooo slowly.

1. 5x5 is more of a "balanced" approach for strength/hypertrophy development. If you're wanting to focus on mainly building strength for your main lifts there is nothing wrong with moving to a 3x5 as it will allow you to progress your strength more quickly....(assuming proper rest/recover/calories..etc)

2. Accessory work is meant to help build lacking body parts (aesthetics) or weak points in your main lifts (strength). The reason for 3x8, 3x10 is to focus solely on hypertrophy. The theory has always been the bigger a muscle is the stronger it can be....

Sam_I_Am77

Here's my take on this subject based on my schooling and own lifting experience (deficiencies & successes).

1. StrongLifts is a good way to build strength, very good.
2. In the long-run I think some might develop some unilateral strength and balance deficiencies because there is no unilateral work and the Squat & Deadlift are not the best exercises for developing the hamstrings
3. Squatting and Deadlifting are great for developing the core stabilizers and core movers in the back but not so much in the obliques and ab's as some may have you believe. Perhaps this is more relevant to somebody doing SL for a few months versus a beginner but at some point something here needs to be added. Don't do any ab work for 8 weeks and then go do a couple sets of 20-reps with an AB wheel (if you can manage 20) and tell me how your abs feel the next day, probably sore.

This is what I would personally do for the lower body, so take it for what it's worth

Day 1: Figure a training max for your squat *estimate your 1RM and then take say 85% - 90% of that.
Squat
set 1 = 40% of TM x 10
set 2 = 50% x 10
set 3 = 60% x 10
*super-set with side step-up with a balance hold or side-lung with a balance hold* This will work on your frontal plane balance and help with your glute and even hamstring development. You do not rest between the squat and unilateral movement, you can rest about 60-90 sec's between full sets.
**Follow the rest of the day as stated

Day 2:
Deadlift as normal
*Do 1-3 sets of the following combination:
a. "normal" step-ups (sagittal plane balance) or walking lunges: Sets of 12
b. Side lunge, OR Side Step-Up, OR a Turning Lunge (transverse plane) Sets of 10 But you hold the balance position for 2-sec's
*upper body work as normal

Day 3:
Squat with Normal programming
*Add back raises for 50 total reps
*upper body work as normal.

Yes, this definitely starts to stray from SL's programming and the ABABAB rotation but I don't follow cookie cutter programs at this point.

but the weight was progressing sooo slowly

Don't get too caught-up with how fast plates are being added to your total. Yes we all want to build strength, that's the goal right?, but if it's rushed you can actually end-up digressing at some point or hit a wall much quicker than you should and get frustrated. Slow and stead progression is your best route for life-long success.

jmule24

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

Here's my take on this subject based on my schooling and own lifting experience (deficiencies & successes).

1. StrongLifts is a good way to build strength, very good.
2. In the long-run I think some might develop some unilateral strength and balance deficiencies because there is no unilateral work and the Squat & Deadlift are not the best exercises for developing the hamstrings
3. Squatting and Deadlifting are great for developing the core stabilizers and core movers in the back but not so much in the obliques and ab's as some may have you believe. Perhaps this is more relevant to somebody doing SL for a few months versus a beginner but at some point something here needs to be added. Don't do any ab work for 8 weeks and then go do a couple sets of 20-reps with an AB wheel (if you can manage 20) and tell me how your abs feel the next day, probably sore.

This is what I would personally do for the lower body, so take it for what it's worth

Day 1: Figure a training max for your squat *estimate your 1RM and then take say 85% - 90% of that.
Squat
set 1 = 40% of TM x 10
set 2 = 50% x 10
set 3 = 60% x 10
*super-set with side step-up with a balance hold or side-lung with a balance hold* This will work on your frontal plane balance and help with your glute and even hamstring development. You do not rest between the squat and unilateral movement, you can rest about 60-90 sec's between full sets.
**Follow the rest of the day as stated

Day 2:
Deadlift as normal
*Do 1-3 sets of the following combination:
a. "normal" step-ups (sagittal plane balance) or walking lunges: Sets of 12
b. Side lunge, OR Side Step-Up, OR a Turning Lunge (transverse plane) Sets of 10 But you hold the balance position for 2-sec's
*upper body work as normal

Day 3:
Squat with Normal programming
*Add back raises for 50 total reps
*upper body work as normal.

Yes, this definitely starts to stray from SL's programming and the ABABAB rotation but I don't follow cookie cutter programs at this point.

but the weight was progressing sooo slowly

Don't get too caught-up with how fast plates are being added to your total. Yes we all want to build strength, that's the goal right?, but if it's rushed you can actually end-up digressing at some point or hit a wall much quicker than you should and get frustrated. Slow and stead progression is your best route for life-long success.

WUT?????????