strength training-whats the point?

de1amo

i am dieting to lose weight and as a part of my program at the gym i do weights but sense i am just getting thinner and not gaining any muscles because of the limitations of protein intake. it seems motivationally defeating to do the weights while i am dieting. i am well in my healthy weight bmi range and about 1,5kgs away from my target weight--is it time to revise my settings??

mitze90

Cardio burns (protien) muscles as well as fat, and bigger muscles burn more calories when your idle.

Why are you limiting protien?

DZFitness

You're correct - without significant protein intake, you won't experience hypertrophy, you won't "bulk up." It's really hard to gain muscle during dieting, but what you're doing with strength training has two big benefits over other types of activity. First, anaerobic exercise is really potent and burns -lots- of calories compared to aerobic exercise. Second, you're telling your body not to burn muscle, but to burn fat instead (I know this is a gross generalization, but without strength training, the muscle will go before the fat as muscle demands more calories).

You could probably do with replacing carbs with protein, especially if you're trying to lower body fat percentage. To change up your routine, try sprinting up a steep hill (a hill you know that will kick your butt) for about 30 seconds for 8 sprints, do this twice a week.

I hope what I've written above helps in some way - everyone deserves the body they want. :bigsmile:

de1amo

the problem is that i am just not building muscle--just getting thinner--i do 45 mins of weights and about 90 minutes of cardio --i am getting more like seb coe not lynford christie!-thin and lean not muscled!

Thanks Dz --my mail crossed---that says it all.-i am a carbs person and dont really like too much protein in my normal state--when i was young i was a marathon man rather than a sprinter and my nautural shape seems to be confirming this in old age!--i could run all day but was a the slowest thing on 2 legs when asked to sprint!--through my life i have carried varying amount of muscle but never been over weigheted with large bulky ones--when i started this diet i was scanned as having average muscle for my age and height!

DZFitness

90 minutes of cardio how often? 90 minutes of steady-state cardio is too much.

de1amo

i tend to do fast bike rides and hill walking or 10kph jogs--i could go for hours at a normal speed and when i started this diet i was doing twice as much but cut it back when i tried eating the exercise calories here--i do it 3 or 4 times now but was 6 times a week at the outset

Youve talked me out of the gym today--i feel i should cut back and try diet adjustment-yesterday i was 1000 calories short because of my exercise and i didnt even do my weights! i was going today to make up for the miss!

DZFitness

Err, please do keep going to the gym! :embarassed: It sounds like the only changes you really need to make are reducing the amount of time spent doing steady-state cardio and upping your protein intake.

de1amo

the problem is i am like a moth drawn to the light--its become an addictive habit to churn out the calories on the machines-i need to somehow refocus what i do at the gym--is swimming just changing the treadmill for another cardio?--

i also live in a country now where protein is not a high part of the diet because of the extreme heat and my wifes tendenancy to prefer veggie food its unlike the uk where i originate from which has protein on every plate--i am enjoying being thinner apart from the look it also makes living in the heat much easier--its 35c at the moment and set for a high of 39 today

mitze90

Tuna, whey protien shakes, almonds, egg whites are some of the ways I add extra protien to my diet, whey protien shake instead of milk on my cereal in the morning is my favourite tho.

striker1988

Here's a solution to fix your muscle problem:

1. Get a whey protein supplement. These are relatively cheap and easy to find. Take the supplement before and following your workout.

2. Change the way you utilize weights.
A. Work muscles 3 times a week, doing your entire body and taking rest days in between OR alternate muscle groups on different days and work them 6-7 days per week.
B. Do 3 sets on each muscle group with low reps-- 6-8 reps in each set. If you can do more than eight without complete exhaustion, increase the weight. If you can't do six, decrease the weight. Wait 2 minutes in between sets. This type of strength training is the fastest way to both increase strength and bulk up.

Creatine could help too, but isn't necessary. The protein however, is. If your body isn't getting enough high quality protein, it simply can't do the job of properly rebuilding your muscles.

striker1988

Almost forgot to add... If you like cardio, keep doing it, it keeps your heart strong so that you can more effectively perform weight training.

BUT do it AFTER, not before you weight train, because it burns your anaerobic energy almost immediately while utilizing aerobic energy. Strength training uses anaerobic as opposed to aerobic energy, and thus you'll need it to hit the weights hard.

de1amo

apart from the supplements i am following that regime of weights--i do 12 reps x 3 but only rest for a minute between them---i just cant lift much due to the lack of muscle i now find myself with!!

İ will have to scout the supplements because i live in Turkey where superflous things like exercise seems very low key--i belong to the only decent gym for about 250k people and its not busy!!--i will have to ask the instructors for directions as i see no obvious shops.
İs chicken the recommended meat because i can eat that til the cows come home!!!

striker1988

Generally, if you're looking to keep your body fat down and protein up, chicken and turkey are excellent choices. Beef-based products are very high in protein but tend to have more fat. Likewise with pork. If you're trying to stay lean and up your meat-based protein intake, I'd focus on turkey, chicken and fish. Milk, nuts and beans are also good sources of protein.

de1amo

those things just about sum my diet up---espeicially beans--red meat is very limited because of the heat and latent fat--nuts are a very usual product in every day consumption and i love almonds!! --i want lots of lean muscle to be honest because of the heat --i came here 4 years ago as an over weight person and didnt shed weight because i did no exercise -i didnt gain any though! many thanks to you all for your helpful advice.

SHBoss1673

There is a lot of bad advice/information in this thread (I'm not going to call people out in public, so I'll just say that, if you want to know more de1amo, please PM me) and before you follow it, I hope you confirm that it's good advice. Not saying it's intentional, but this is how bad habits form.



Anyway

de1amo, couple of things.

First, it's perfectly fine to do both cardio and resistance training. If you're close to your goal weight, you should be very close to your maintenance calories anyway. While you really can't gain significant muscle mass while in a caloric deficit, there's real reasons behind continuing to do weight training even if you aren't building muscle. The reasons are, weight training release hormones that cardio doesn't, it keeps muscles active which means they won't be canabalized for fuel, keeping your existing muscle mass intact.

If you're asking how to build significant muscle mass, well it's simple: 1) lower the cardio down to say 30 minutes (somewhere below the glycogen threshold, you can still do it, just make sure you're not burning up all your muscle site glycogen). 2) try to keep your protein intake between 25% and 35% while doing the weight training 3 to 4 times a week. Note, you shouldn't weight train the same muscle groups every day (or even every other day in most cases). and 3) eat at your maintenance calories and make sure you eat your exercise calories.

that's it, not really much more too it than that besides eating healthy.

de1amo

when you say 25 to 30pc of protein---what does this relate to--pc of what?

i dont want to gain masses of muscle i just dont want to be skinny looking--my wife likes a bit of meat and misses my broad shoulders!!--i will cut down on the cardio i think because that leads to calories i cant physically hope to eat--in heat like this you dont want to over eat but the gym has ac which lets you freely and happily exercise-those limits Boss you saşid are in line with my instructors instructions on my sheet--i hear conflicts over what protein level is recommended and seem to think the western style of eating protein with every meal is the root of a lot of the current health and weight problems--i am having a retraining of my eating habits living abroad in a different climate---fish is cheap and plentiful -beans are a staple -as are nuts--just the chicken is a hang over from the uk!

rybo

I agree with SHboss

25-30% of your total caloric intake from protein. That should at the very least keep you from losing muscle mass with all the exercise you are doing. IF you see you are getting too big, ease it down until you find balance.

SHBoss1673

when you say 25 to 30pc of protein---what does this relate to--pc of what?

i dont want to gain masses of muscle i just dont want to be skinny looking--my wife likes a bit of meat and misses my broad shoulders!!--i will cut down on the cardio i think because that leads to calories i cant physically hope to eat--in heat like this you dont want to over eat but the gym has ac which lets you freely and happily exercise-those limits Boss you saşid are in line with my instructors instructions on my sheet--i hear conflicts over what protein level is recommended and seem to think the western style of eating protein with every meal is the root of a lot of the current health and weight problems--i am having a retraining of my eating habits living abroad in a different climate---fish is cheap and plentiful -beans are a staple -as are nuts--just the chicken is a hang over from the uk!

yeah, well I don't think you need to worry about gaining "masses of muscle". It's not easy to build muscle, and it takes quite a bit of dedication to gain large volumes, you'd have to be consciously trying to gain large volumes of muscle mass to do so. If all you want to do is lean up and gain a small percentage of muscle mass, just make sure you are getting enough protein, and doing resistance training and eating at your maintenance levels. You can't actually gain mass while in a caloric deficit, the body can either be catabolic (losing consuming energy from fat and muscle) or anabolic (gaining energy in the form of lean tissue) not both at the same time, it's just not how the body works, so you can't expect to gain muscle while in a deficit, that said, trust me, you won't bulk up significantly by accident, it's a very long, difficult process to put on lots of muscle mass.

As to your thoughts on protein and the problems with the US. I disagree. Being a US citizen, and seeing every day what we eat as a nation, it's all about processed foods, and more specifically processed carbs and soy, those are our problems, there's way too many processed carbs out there, and soy in many machined products on the market, not good IMHO. Protein isn't really an issue unless you have existing liver or kidney issues (by that I infer "to much protein" isn't an issue, to little is always an issue in my book)

de1amo

i look back at my diet in the uk cant remember a meal without at least half the meal being a protein. i am lucky i see protein twice a week now from animal source- i get plenty of healthy stuff like spinache and chick beans abd feel a throw back to the hippies.

so taking your pcentages my diet cal rate now is 1490 so to take 25pc of protein i would be on about 450 intake which would distort this diet so do i need to recalibrate things--if i see positive change for my work and diet i can do what is necessary- i feel stronger today by just having upped my protein in the last 2 meals-egg and tuna --spinach and steak meat meatballs later--will go to the gym and keep within the set bounds of cardio and hopefully work better with my tips and new protein ideas.

de1amo

i trained better today- i followed your tips about not doing cardio before the weights and slowing the rests between sets down-i also reduced the cardio to 50 minutes total and feel much less 'stressed after-i have upped my protein with regular almonds or yoghurt and cutting my carbs down as a opposite to the protein- i feel stronger in my self