Sciencey Question about Calories
initialsdeebee
Posts: 83 Member
So this is prob a question that should be answered with research by scientists, but maybe someone here has read about this already? I'm curious about the rate at which we can assimilate/store calories as weight. For example, I think it's 3500 calories = 1 pound, right? So in theory, if one sits down and eats 7000 calories at once, does that mean your body puts on 2 pounds then and there? Or is there a point at which your body stops or is unable to assimilate all calories in one sitting or day or whatever? Sounds like an ED inspired question, I know. I have dealt with occasional binges in my day (although I hope not 7000 calories) This is of course another problem, but it also just got me thinking about how the body works in general and what exactly happens to your body on a scientific level I guess.
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It's non-trivial to sort out because you aren't gaining weight just from the calories, but also from the water and other mass in the food. So, "then and there" if you eat three pounds of food, you'll gain three pounds. A lot of that mass will be excreted and not converted to body weight.
Your body is basically constantly storing and using energy, so I don't know that there's any feasible way to snapshot the process and say eating 7000 calories above maintenance -- just 7000 wouldn't do it because you're using energy at the same time -- means you'll weigh two pounds more as of Time X because of those 7000 extra calories.
Most likely, your average weight for the week after eating the 7000 extra calories would be about two pounds higher than your average weight for the week before you did. But, again, since the food is going to add to your weight right when you eat it, and add more than your body will eventually keep, I don't know that you can say, precisely, when the extra weight from the extra calories manifests itself.0 -
I don't know how it works, but I do know the math doesn't. At least not for everyone. Going by the math, I should've gained nearly a pound a day. I didn't. Going by the math, I should lose...oh, a lot more than I actually do.
The losing interests me less than the gaining. Why didn't I gain more? Why don't all the people who overeat like crazy gain more than they do? I don't know and while experts have different theories, nobody knows. Not yet, anyway.
I hope they figure all this out before I die. I'd really like to know.0 -
There are overfeeding studies where you see different effects depending what is added as the extra calories. A guy called Sam Feltham also documented eating 5000 cals a day of various compositions for 21 day spells. Smash the fat. Com from memory0
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Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.0 -
Sciencey Answer:
“Calories” are a measurement of energy — it’s just a unit of energy, like Watts or Joules. Or even like: gallons or cups or teaspoons. It's just a unit of measurement. In this case, energy.
Generally, determining how many calories are in food is done by burning the food and calculating the released heat in something called a Bomb Calorimeter. Think of using a hamburger instead of charcoal in your barbecue and calculating how many hamburgers it takes to heat up a cup of water.
1 Calorie = energy it takes to heat up 1 liter (kg) of water by 1 degree Celsius
The math:
Q = mcp^T
= (1kg)(4.18 J/g*C)(1C)
= 4.18 kilojoules
= 1 calorie
So, calories are just energy. However, what your body does with that energy is a whole different story. We started with physics and now we have to shift into chemistry.
When you eat a molecule of sucrose (sugar) what your body does first to it is to break all of the sucrose molecule’s bonds to release energy, but breaking molecular bonds takes energy.
Sucrose has lots of bonds:
C-C bonds: 10
O-H bonds: 8
C-H bonds: 14
C-O bonds: 14
Each of these bonds has different energies:
C-C = 346 kJ/mol
C-H = 411 kJ/mol
O-H = 459 kJ/mol
C-O = 358 kJ/mol
So, you simply add up the bonds and sum the energy per bond.
C-C = 346 kJ/mol x 10 bonds = 3,460 kJ/mol
C-H = 411 kJ/mol x 14 bonds = 5,754 kJ/mol
O-H = 459 kJ/mol x 8 bonds = 3,672 kJ/mol
C-O = 358 kJ/mol x 14 bonds = 5,012 kJ/mol
Total energy it takes to break apart a sucrose molecule is the sum of the above: 17,898 kJ/mol
The next step is to reform those broken bonds into carbon dioxide and water. This also takes energy. And, you have to apply the Principle of Stoichiometric Balance which means, when you are transforming one thing to another with a chemical reaction, you can't destroy its fundamental atoms. You have to end up with the same number of each atom.
The sucrose molecule looks like this:
C12 H22 C11
After digestion, there must be 12 carbons in the final product(s). They can’t go anywhere else. So, to convert the above to carbon dioxide and oxygen, you have to add 12 oxygen molecules to balance both sides of the equation:
C12 H22 O11 + 12O2 = 12CO2 + 11H2O
Then, there’s also the released energy to account for. There are a number of charts online that map metabolic pathways. There are maps for glucose alone that could be printed in 10 pt font and take up entire walls. One of the more well known maps was created by Dr. Donald Nicholson and I believe his map is online. None of the metabolic pathways charts are complete. They are all still works in progress.
If you have access to a glucose metabolic pathway chart, you can see the many many different processes just to use up a glucose molecule — and you can see why there are differences in metabolism of different foods into calories. A calorie is always a calorie (that’s like saying a gallon is always a gallon). However, its the: 1) energy availability of different foods and 2) metabolic processes cause a large variation in results.
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I don't know how it works, but I do know the math doesn't. At least not for everyone. Going by the math, I should've gained nearly a pound a day. I didn't. Going by the math, I should lose...oh, a lot more than I actually do.
The losing interests me less than the gaining. Why didn't I gain more? Why don't all the people who overeat like crazy gain more than they do? I don't know and while experts have different theories, nobody knows. Not yet, anyway.
I hope they figure all this out before I die. I'd really like to know.
The physics works perfectly, the math dosent so much just because we don't have all the numbers to work with.
Your maintenance number is an estimate, your calories burned is an estimate, your calories logged is an estimate. That's a LOT of opportunities for margin stacking.
So you say the math says you should have put on a pound? Based on your intake over maintenance? Well as your body puts on weight, everything else being equal your calories burned actually goes up. More body mass= more calories required to run it right?
So your numbers that are already merely estimates are also constantly moving based on environment and the effects of every other number you are trying to track and alter.
That's why you don't concern your self with one pound or one day. Stick to the rough math for the long haul and the margins start to shrink into meaninglessness.0 -
nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.0 -
I don't know how it works, but I do know the math doesn't. At least not for everyone. Going by the math, I should've gained nearly a pound a day. I didn't. Going by the math, I should lose...oh, a lot more than I actually do.
The losing interests me less than the gaining. Why didn't I gain more? Why don't all the people who overeat like crazy gain more than they do? I don't know and while experts have different theories, nobody knows. Not yet, anyway.
I hope they figure all this out before I die. I'd really like to know.
Who knows how this relates to your results, but I've seen study results that suggest that people vary quite a lot in how much their bodies compensate for excess calories. Some tend to naturally move more (in less obvious ways) and otherwise burn more calories so their TDEE increases naturally if calories do, offsetting what they should be gaining. Others do that much less. On the flip side, some people's TDEE tends to naturally drop quite a lot when they cut calories, while others don't experience that so much.
Personally, my weight gain seems about right -- I went from eating about 2000-2200 calories and being active to the same and being sedentary and put on about 1 lb/week. As I gained I started eating more in an average week (but not enormous amounts) and kept up that gain for some time.
My losses have followed predictable projections too, except (1) at my heaviest I lost faster than the numbers said I should, which I think is because light activity counted as more than I assumed because I was so fat and (on less solid ground) I felt so great just starting to lose that my regular activity seemed to increase -- I regained old habits of constantly bouncing or figeting or just moving a little or dancing or some such that I'd lost at my fattest; and (2) now that I'm basically at goal my losses aren't happening on numbers where they should be (I think this is me just counting badly/exercise not burning as many calories as it did, but it could be all sorts of stuff, and I'm losing inches so who cares, really).0 -
nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
I believe you oversimplified that somewhat and got a few things incorrect. I could be wrong, please correct me if I am.
Insulin helps cells (including fat cells) to take up glucose(and amino acids and other stuff like creatine) with the goal to lower blood sugar levels. Because high blood sugar levels are considered toxic to the body (T1D would not be as dangerous if this was not true) insulin tells cells to stop burning fat a focus on taking up glucose out of the blood. This is a very good thing.
Insulin also regulates and facilitates fat storage. It signals fat cells to store fat and hold onto it. Eating large amounts of carbs or being insulin resistant will result in high insulin levels, with IR causing much higher insulin levels than a healthy person who just ate a plate of pasta. If there is extra calories, especially carbs, the insulin must keep working to clear the blood of glucose, and since the cells have had their fill of glucose, now it is made into fat.
Basically, eating carbs tells the body to stop burning fat, take up glucose, and store any extras as fat. If you eat meals that are low in carbs, or very low GI foods, healthy people (and eventually T2 diabetics after they follow lower carb and low GI foods for a time) will avoid the insulin spikes which will reduce the body's fat storage processes.
It still comes down to CICO. If you are not eating excess calories at a meal, you won't trigger fat storage even if you have an insulin spike in response to high blood glucose levels. Eating lower carb meals does not cause an insulin spike which can make it easier to lose weight since there is not a lot of insulin telling the body to stop burning fat, take up glucose and store the extras as fat.
A more controversial theory is that excess insulin in IR individuals causes what amounts leptin resistance so the mind doesn't know when you are full and you over eat. Eating too much leads to more fat storage which can eventually worsen T2D. A vicious cycle, if the leptin resistance theory proves true.
Btw, I have read that triglycerides can go up during weight loss on a low carb diet because the freed fats from your body are floating around and on their way out. I haven't read enough on that to expand upon it though.0 -
initialsdeebee wrote: »So this is prob a question that should be answered with research by scientists, but maybe someone here has read about this already? I'm curious about the rate at which we can assimilate/store calories as weight. For example, I think it's 3500 calories = 1 pound, right? So in theory, if one sits down and eats 7000 calories at once, does that mean your body puts on 2 pounds then and there? Or is there a point at which your body stops or is unable to assimilate all calories in one sitting or day or whatever? Sounds like an ED inspired question, I know. I have dealt with occasional binges in my day (although I hope not 7000 calories) This is of course another problem, but it also just got me thinking about how the body works in general and what exactly happens to your body on a scientific level I guess.
Not quite sciencey answer: you would need to eat 7000 calories above and beyond your TDEE to gain 2 lbs. Your TDEE is Total Daily Energy Expenditure, and takes into account your BMR (calories needed just to keep you alive), daily activity, exercise, thermic effect of food, etc. So if you ate 7000 above that, theoretically you would gain 2 lbs. But as the TDEE ranges from probably around 1400-3000 for the average person of average size (not a competitive or elite athlete)…that's a lot of food.
Even less sciencey answer: if you ate 7000 calories, then went and stepped on a scale a bit later, you would probably see that the scale has gone up, due to the weight of the food (that's a lot of food) and water retention. That doesn't mean your body would hold onto all that weight.0 -
I don't know how it works, but I do know the math doesn't. At least not for everyone. Going by the math, I should've gained nearly a pound a day. I didn't. Going by the math, I should lose...oh, a lot more than I actually do.
The losing interests me less than the gaining. Why didn't I gain more? Why don't all the people who overeat like crazy gain more than they do? I don't know and while experts have different theories, nobody knows. Not yet, anyway.
I hope they figure all this out before I die. I'd really like to know.
Energy always has to be accounted for, so (all assuming you got your TDEE and intake correct) it's either your body burning more calories in various ways, the energy not getting absorbed and just passing through or a combination of both.0 -
Glucose causes increases in insulin which signals to fat cells to take up fat. The reason this happens is because the cell wall activity that transports trigylcerides into a fat cell requires glucose.nvsmomketo wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
I believe you oversimplified that somewhat and got a few things incorrect. I could be wrong, please correct me if I am.
Insulin helps cells (including fat cells) to take up glucose(and amino acids and other stuff like creatine) with the goal to lower blood sugar levels. Because high blood sugar levels are considered toxic to the body (T1D would not be as dangerous if this was not true) insulin tells cells to stop burning fat a focus on taking up glucose out of the blood. This is a very good thing.
Insulin also regulates and facilitates fat storage. It signals fat cells to store fat and hold onto it. Eating large amounts of carbs or being insulin resistant will result in high insulin levels, with IR causing much higher insulin levels than a healthy person who just ate a plate of pasta. If there is extra calories, especially carbs, the insulin must keep working to clear the blood of glucose, and since the cells have had their fill of glucose, now it is made into fat.
Basically, eating carbs tells the body to stop burning fat, take up glucose, and store any extras as fat. If you eat meals that are low in carbs, or very low GI foods, healthy people (and eventually T2 diabetics after they follow lower carb and low GI foods for a time) will avoid the insulin spikes which will reduce the body's fat storage processes.
It still comes down to CICO. If you are not eating excess calories at a meal, you won't trigger fat storage even if you have an insulin spike in response to high blood glucose levels. Eating lower carb meals does not cause an insulin spike which can make it easier to lose weight since there is not a lot of insulin telling the body to stop burning fat, take up glucose and store the extras as fat.
A more controversial theory is that excess insulin in IR individuals causes what amounts leptin resistance so the mind doesn't know when you are full and you over eat. Eating too much leads to more fat storage which can eventually worsen T2D. A vicious cycle, if the leptin resistance theory proves true.
Btw, I have read that triglycerides can go up during weight loss on a low carb diet because the freed fats from your body are floating around and on their way out. I haven't read enough on that to expand upon it though.
And no, your body doesn't normally turn carbs into fat. It definitely can perform de novo lipogensis, but many early findings on it were based on rats who perform that metabolic pathway far more than primates. The preference for a human body with excess glucose is to burn it for energy and preserve accumulated fat, rather than to convert the glucose into fat.
The thing that is different about a T2 diabetic is their cells have down regulated their receptors for insulin.
Generally, triglycerides can go up or down on any given diet, depending on the individual. The usual thing for any diet is to long term drive down triglycerides because the long term effect of any diet is to remove fat (triglycerides). If I had to speculate, the amount of protein in a low carb diet would probably be a part of how tryglyceride levels change on a low carb diet, as high protein will cause insulin to rise, but a low carb diet that is incredibly ketogenic in distribution would probably be the more likely to raise free triglycerides.
The overall picture that's being lost is that people read "insulin causes fat storage", and they think it means it causes your body to take up dietary fat, and without, your body wouldn't use dietary fat. That isn't want it means. Your body already has the fat in it by the time insulin signals any storage.
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Glucose causes increases in insulin which signals to fat cells to take up fat. The reason this happens is because the cell wall activity that transports trigylcerides into a fat cell requires glucose.
Agreed. That's true of most cellualr function. It uses glucose to perform it's duties, like a fat cell collecting or releasing fat.And no, your body doesn't normally turn carbs into fat. It definitely can perform de novo lipogensis, but many early findings on it were based on rats who perform that metabolic pathway far more than primates. The preference for a human body with excess glucose is to burn it for energy and preserve accumulated fat, rather than to convert the glucose into fat.
Excess carbs are only burned if you eat in a deficit or do some exercise or activity, around the time of the meal, to create a caloric deficit. If one eats too much it will be stored as fat (so will the protein and fat). If a candy bar fits into someones' calorie count they will probably avoid fat storage though.The thing that is different about a T2 diabetic is their cells have down regulated their receptors for insulin.
Right. It's a bummerGenerally, triglycerides can go up or down on any given diet, depending on the individual. The usual thing for any diet is to long term drive down triglycerides because the long term effect of any diet is to remove fat (triglycerides). If I had to speculate, the amount of protein in a low carb diet would probably be a part of how tryglyceride levels change on a low carb diet, as high protein will cause insulin to rise, but a low carb diet that is incredibly ketogenic in distribution would probably be the more likely to raise free triglycerides.
I agree those on a ketogenic diet will generally have more triglycerides, yet in those people it is not always recognized as a bad thing since LDL comes down and HDL goes up (usually). Those triglycerides are a result of reduced body fat and not more fat being created, unless that ketogenic person is eating way too much.
I don't think a LCHF diet is necessarily high in protein though. It varies a bit just like most other diets. My protein is usually somewhere around 70g. High protein can reduce triglycerides but so can a diet that is low in carbs and high in fat, it is now being recognized that excess calories, sugar and alcohol are the main causes of high triglycerides. Those with T2D often have problems with it.
I agree that if it is not understood that insulin is needed, then people could worry about it causing fat storage. The problem is, is that it does cause fat storage if there is an excess of insulin (like in a T2D or in the case of a very large amount of dietary added sugars) and an excess of calories. It won't increase your weight by large amounts, but it will slowly make you heavier.The overall picture that's being lost is that people read "insulin causes fat storage", and they think it means it causes your body to take up dietary fat, and without, your body wouldn't use dietary fat. That isn't want it means. Your body already has the fat in it by the time insulin signals any storage.
This is probably how I gained my extra 30 lbs. I had a soda or candy every day. I ate too much. I developed minor insulin resistance and prediabetes so my blood insulin levels were higher. I had a hard time not eating more (carbs) and then the cycle started again with another soda.
I think all we should do is remind people that our bodies always have insulin working to get glucose to our cells. Without insulin we will die. It's only when insulin levels get very high (from T2D or waaay too many added sugars) and caloric intake is too high, that increased fat storage is facilitated.0 -
nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.0 -
martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
^^^This is true
This thread is full of utter disinformation
Your mitochondria burns your fat. Eat a deficit and exercise.
As your muscles seek fuel your mitochondria sources glycogen and lipid mix. Exercise in a fasted state and your mitochondria physically adapts over time to source more fat
I have lost 145 lbs of fat and reversed my diabetes doing this with dr and nutritionist supervison and 6 month blood tests along the way
Calorie deficit sets the stage. What you do with it is a personal decision. I'm enjoying endurance training in that state.
It works for me.
But please anyone in this thread look up some of this stuff in Google
There is so much wrong in this thread it is scary.
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Following..
I always found this article interesting if you are interested in how insulin works.
Also, keep in mind there are a lot of variables such as metabolic rate, thermal effect of food, calories burnt from exercise (thermal effect of activity) and etc...0 -
I was just talking about this with a friend of mine on Thursday night. She just got a Fitbit and is a scientist in organic chemistry. She says that there is no way to know exactly how many calories you get out of your food or how many you burn. All of the tools we use are useful and do help us to at least get a good best guess. The important thing is, are you getting the results you want, and if not then make some adjustments until you do.0
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martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
I disagree.0 -
Following..
I always found this article interesting if you are interested in how insulin works.
Also, keep in mind there are a lot of variables such as metabolic rate, thermal effect of food, calories burnt from exercise (thermal effect of activity) and etc...
A good article for healthy people. Insulin can be villainized for them.
But it definitely applied to healthy people. Some of the points in there don't seem to be true for those with IR. I could be wrong, I don't have time to read the whole thing right now.0 -
nvsmomketo wrote: »Following..
I always found this article interesting if you are interested in how insulin works.
Also, keep in mind there are a lot of variables such as metabolic rate, thermal effect of food, calories burnt from exercise (thermal effect of activity) and etc...
A good article for healthy people. Insulin can be villainized for them.
But it definitely applied to healthy people. Some of the points in there don't seem to be true for those with IR. I could be wrong, I don't have time to read the whole thing right now.
Oh yes, I agree that it applies to healthy people, but that makes up the majority. If one has a medical issues than the response changes. A bigger issue is when the minority apply their circumstance to those outside of the standard deviation.0 -
ScreeField wrote: »Sciencey Answer:
“Calories” are a measurement of energy — it’s just a unit of energy, like Watts or Joules. Or even like: gallons or cups or teaspoons. It's just a unit of measurement. In this case, energy.
Generally, determining how many calories are in food is done by burning the food and calculating the released heat in something called a Bomb Calorimeter. Think of using a hamburger instead of charcoal in your barbecue and calculating how many hamburgers it takes to heat up a cup of water.
1 Calorie = energy it takes to heat up 1 liter (kg) of water by 1 degree Celsius
The math:
Q = mcp^T
= (1kg)(4.18 J/g*C)(1C)
= 4.18 kilojoules
= 1 calorie
So, calories are just energy. However, what your body does with that energy is a whole different story. We started with physics and now we have to shift into chemistry.
When you eat a molecule of sucrose (sugar) what your body does first to it is to break all of the sucrose molecule’s bonds to release energy, but breaking molecular bonds takes energy.
Sucrose has lots of bonds:
C-C bonds: 10
O-H bonds: 8
C-H bonds: 14
C-O bonds: 14
Each of these bonds has different energies:
C-C = 346 kJ/mol
C-H = 411 kJ/mol
O-H = 459 kJ/mol
C-O = 358 kJ/mol
So, you simply add up the bonds and sum the energy per bond.
C-C = 346 kJ/mol x 10 bonds = 3,460 kJ/mol
C-H = 411 kJ/mol x 14 bonds = 5,754 kJ/mol
O-H = 459 kJ/mol x 8 bonds = 3,672 kJ/mol
C-O = 358 kJ/mol x 14 bonds = 5,012 kJ/mol
Total energy it takes to break apart a sucrose molecule is the sum of the above: 17,898 kJ/mol
The next step is to reform those broken bonds into carbon dioxide and water. This also takes energy. And, you have to apply the Principle of Stoichiometric Balance which means, when you are transforming one thing to another with a chemical reaction, you can't destroy its fundamental atoms. You have to end up with the same number of each atom.
The sucrose molecule looks like this:
C12 H22 C11
After digestion, there must be 12 carbons in the final product(s). They can’t go anywhere else. So, to convert the above to carbon dioxide and oxygen, you have to add 12 oxygen molecules to balance both sides of the equation:
C12 H22 O11 + 12O2 = 12CO2 + 11H2O
Then, there’s also the released energy to account for. There are a number of charts online that map metabolic pathways. There are maps for glucose alone that could be printed in 10 pt font and take up entire walls. One of the more well known maps was created by Dr. Donald Nicholson and I believe his map is online. None of the metabolic pathways charts are complete. They are all still works in progress.
If you have access to a glucose metabolic pathway chart, you can see the many many different processes just to use up a glucose molecule — and you can see why there are differences in metabolism of different foods into calories. A calorie is always a calorie (that’s like saying a gallon is always a gallon). However, its the: 1) energy availability of different foods and 2) metabolic processes cause a large variation in results.
Dannngg someone knows their stuff!! <impressed>0 -
It isn't an pick A or B only. Yes, insulin signals glucose uptake. It also tells fat cells to take up fats. That is what is meant when everyone takes up the soundbite of "insulin causes your body to store fat".martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
diabetesresearchclinicalpractice.com/article/S0168-8227(11)70014-6/abstract
Conversion of glucose to fat can happen, but in humans it is not terribly efficient - the preference is to use glucose for fuel, particularly as the brain will happily go through 100 grams or more of it a day.The major effects of insulin on muscle and adipose tissue are: (1) Carbohydrate metabolism: (a) it increases the rate of glucose transport across the cell membrane, (b) it increases the rate of glycolysis by increasing hexokinase and 6-phosphofructokinase activity, (c) it stimulates the rate of glycogen synthesis and decreases the rate of glycogen breakdown. (2) Lipid metabolism: (a) it decreases the rate of lipolysis in adipose tissue and hence lowers the plasma fatty acid level, (b) it stimulates fatty acid and triacylglycerol synthesis in tissues, (c) it increases the uptake of triglycerides from the blood into adipose tissue and muscle, (d) it decreases the rate of fatty acid oxidation in muscle and liver. (3) Protein metabolism: (a) it increases the rate of transport of some amino acids into tissues, (b) it increases the rate of protein synthesis in muscle, adipose tissue, liver, and other tissues, (c) it decreases the rate of protein degradation in muscle (and perhaps other tissues).0 -
I've already clarified why martinecoates was over simplifying.professionalHobbyist wrote: »martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
^^^This is true
This thread is full of utter disinformation
Your mitochondria burns your fat. Eat a deficit and exercise.
As your muscles seek fuel your mitochondria sources glycogen and lipid mix. Exercise in a fasted state and your mitochondria physically adapts over time to source more fat
I have lost 145 lbs of fat and reversed my diabetes doing this with dr and nutritionist supervison and 6 month blood tests along the way
Calorie deficit sets the stage. What you do with it is a personal decision. I'm enjoying endurance training in that state.
It works for me.
But please anyone in this thread look up some of this stuff in Google
There is so much wrong in this thread it is scary.
Go take a look at what I posted. Using Google isn't simply typing in what you want to hear.
There is nothing special about fasted exercise. Absolutely nothing. For all the increased fat burning you're doing while fasted, your body will just source more energy from carbohydrates later if you eat foods that are a mix. The human body isn't that naive. It's had to become highly adapt at using any and all fuel it comes across, or we wouldn't be here today.0 -
nvsmomketo wrote: »martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
I disagree.
Well if you mean this:
The actions of insulin (indirect and direct) on cells include:
Increased glycogen synthesis – insulin forces storage of glucose in liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin, which is directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.[35][clarification needed (see talk)]
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased gluconeogenesis – decreases production of glucose from nonsugar substrates, primarily in the liver (the vast majority of endogenous insulin arriving at the liver never leaves the liver); lack of insulin causes glucose production from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.
Decreased autophagy - decreased level of degradation of damaged organelles. Postprandial levels inhibit autophagy completely.[36]
Increased amino acid uptake – forces cells to absorb circulating amino acids; lack of insulin inhibits absorption.
Increased potassium uptake – forces cells to absorb serum potassium; lack of insulin inhibits absorption. Insulin's increase in cellular potassium uptake lowers potassium levels in blood. This possibly occurs via insulin-induced translocation of the Na+/K+-ATPase to the surface of skeletal muscle cells.[37][38]
Arterial muscle tone – forces arterial wall muscle to relax, increasing blood flow, especially in microarteries; lack of insulin reduces flow by allowing these muscles to contract.
Increase in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by parietal cells in the stomach
Decreased renal sodium excretion.[39]
Insulin also influences other body functions, such as vascular compliance and cognition. Once insulin enters the human brain, it enhances learning and memory and benefits verbal memory in particular.[40] Enhancing brain insulin signaling by means of intranasal insulin administration also enhances the acute thermoregulatory and glucoregulatory response to food intake, suggesting that central nervous insulin contributes to the control of whole-body energy homeostasis in humans.[41] Insulin also has stimulatory effects on gonadotropin-releasing hormone from the hypothalamus, thus favoring fertility.
Then you are correct and I agree with you but to say that insulin just aids storing fat then that is utterly wrong furthermore grossly oversimplified. As obvious from the above (simply from Wikipedia BTW) it is also involved in the uptake of glucose and proteins by the cells and way way more
0 -
shadowfax_c11 wrote: »I was just talking about this with a friend of mine on Thursday night. She just got a Fitbit and is a scientist in organic chemistry. She says that there is no way to know exactly how many calories you get out of your food or how many you burn. All of the tools we use are useful and do help us to at least get a good best guess. The important thing is, are you getting the results you want, and if not then make some adjustments until you do.
That's what my doctor was told, too. It's all guesswork.0 -
You copy and pasted wikipedia without even linking it. Look at the bolded. You're saying you agree that you are wrong.martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
I disagree.
Well if you mean this:
The actions of insulin (indirect and direct) on cells include:
Increased glycogen synthesis – insulin forces storage of glucose in liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin, which is directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.[35][clarification needed (see talk)]
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased gluconeogenesis – decreases production of glucose from nonsugar substrates, primarily in the liver (the vast majority of endogenous insulin arriving at the liver never leaves the liver); lack of insulin causes glucose production from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.
Decreased autophagy - decreased level of degradation of damaged organelles. Postprandial levels inhibit autophagy completely.[36]
Increased amino acid uptake – forces cells to absorb circulating amino acids; lack of insulin inhibits absorption.
Increased potassium uptake – forces cells to absorb serum potassium; lack of insulin inhibits absorption. Insulin's increase in cellular potassium uptake lowers potassium levels in blood. This possibly occurs via insulin-induced translocation of the Na+/K+-ATPase to the surface of skeletal muscle cells.[37][38]
Arterial muscle tone – forces arterial wall muscle to relax, increasing blood flow, especially in microarteries; lack of insulin reduces flow by allowing these muscles to contract.
Increase in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by parietal cells in the stomach
Decreased renal sodium excretion.[39]
Insulin also influences other body functions, such as vascular compliance and cognition. Once insulin enters the human brain, it enhances learning and memory and benefits verbal memory in particular.[40] Enhancing brain insulin signaling by means of intranasal insulin administration also enhances the acute thermoregulatory and glucoregulatory response to food intake, suggesting that central nervous insulin contributes to the control of whole-body energy homeostasis in humans.[41] Insulin also has stimulatory effects on gonadotropin-releasing hormone from the hypothalamus, thus favoring fertility.
Then you are correct and I agree with you but to say that insulin just aids storing fat then that is utterly wrong furthermore grossly oversimplified. As obvious from the above (simply from Wikipedia BTW) it is also involved in the uptake of glucose and proteins by the cells and way way more
0 -
You copy and pasted wikipedia without even linking it. Look at the bolded. You're saying you agree that you are wrong.martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
I disagree.
Well if you mean this:
The actions of insulin (indirect and direct) on cells include:
Increased glycogen synthesis – insulin forces storage of glucose in liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin, which is directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.[35][clarification needed (see talk)]
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased gluconeogenesis – decreases production of glucose from nonsugar substrates, primarily in the liver (the vast majority of endogenous insulin arriving at the liver never leaves the liver); lack of insulin causes glucose production from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.
Decreased autophagy - decreased level of degradation of damaged organelles. Postprandial levels inhibit autophagy completely.[36]
Increased amino acid uptake – forces cells to absorb circulating amino acids; lack of insulin inhibits absorption.
Increased potassium uptake – forces cells to absorb serum potassium; lack of insulin inhibits absorption. Insulin's increase in cellular potassium uptake lowers potassium levels in blood. This possibly occurs via insulin-induced translocation of the Na+/K+-ATPase to the surface of skeletal muscle cells.[37][38]
Arterial muscle tone – forces arterial wall muscle to relax, increasing blood flow, especially in microarteries; lack of insulin reduces flow by allowing these muscles to contract.
Increase in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by parietal cells in the stomach
Decreased renal sodium excretion.[39]
Insulin also influences other body functions, such as vascular compliance and cognition. Once insulin enters the human brain, it enhances learning and memory and benefits verbal memory in particular.[40] Enhancing brain insulin signaling by means of intranasal insulin administration also enhances the acute thermoregulatory and glucoregulatory response to food intake, suggesting that central nervous insulin contributes to the control of whole-body energy homeostasis in humans.[41] Insulin also has stimulatory effects on gonadotropin-releasing hormone from the hypothalamus, thus favoring fertility.
Then you are correct and I agree with you but to say that insulin just aids storing fat then that is utterly wrong furthermore grossly oversimplified. As obvious from the above (simply from Wikipedia BTW) it is also involved in the uptake of glucose and proteins by the cells and way way more
I was under the impression you would be intelligent enough to use Wikipedia yourself I quoted my source I believe that is sufficient. Thank you though for highlighting again that you purely focus on a tiny fraction of a part of the function of insulin. If you had read my reply correctly then you would know that I'm not denying it isn't part of its function but it is most certainly not it sole purpose or its main purpose and you conveniently skipped the other important functions in your reply as well as its not relevant really to the OPs question.
If you feel the need to be right all the time and highjack to OPs post to argue this point then I welcome you to it, but its pretty petty.
0 -
Can you show me where I ever said the sole function or primary function is storing fat? You pounced on me for saying insulin signals fat storage to fat cells and said it is used in taking up glucose, as if I had some how said it was only for storing fat.martinecoates wrote: »
You copy and pasted wikipedia without even linking it. Look at the bolded. You're saying you agree that you are wrong.martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »martinecoates wrote: »nvsmomketo wrote: »Yeah, it is roughly 7000 exra kcal to gain 2 lobs. Roughly. And that is extra, so not including what your body burns in a day.
I think it would also depend on what your body can physically do. I amguessing that there is a point where your body gives up on absorbing and just passes the food through. Just guessing.
Plus some foods are more easiliy absorbed than others. That would make a difference.
Serum insulin levels will also affect how fast you put on fat. Insulin helps store fat, so if your insulin levels are higher, you may store fat more efficinetly. Carbohydrates will raise insulin, as will protein to a much lesser degree. Those with insulin resistance (T2D or prediabetes) will have higher levels of insulin in their blood stream too.
Insulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
It's a common misconception that people get about insulin. Honestly, that your body stores it is actually a good thing - the alternative is that your blood stream has fat floating around which we tent to call cholesterol and triglycerides and associate with negative health outcomes.
In people who already are generally considered healthy and have a low body fat, you'll find their insulin is more active and stores fat faster. Insulin resistance is the body doing this slower and less.
None of that really has to do with fats being taken up from food.
actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong! The glucose can be then used for energy or stored and eventually can be converted to fat. keeping it simple gotta go to work.
I disagree.
Well if you mean this:
The actions of insulin (indirect and direct) on cells include:
Increased glycogen synthesis – insulin forces storage of glucose in liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin, which is directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.[35][clarification needed (see talk)]
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased gluconeogenesis – decreases production of glucose from nonsugar substrates, primarily in the liver (the vast majority of endogenous insulin arriving at the liver never leaves the liver); lack of insulin causes glucose production from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.
Decreased autophagy - decreased level of degradation of damaged organelles. Postprandial levels inhibit autophagy completely.[36]
Increased amino acid uptake – forces cells to absorb circulating amino acids; lack of insulin inhibits absorption.
Increased potassium uptake – forces cells to absorb serum potassium; lack of insulin inhibits absorption. Insulin's increase in cellular potassium uptake lowers potassium levels in blood. This possibly occurs via insulin-induced translocation of the Na+/K+-ATPase to the surface of skeletal muscle cells.[37][38]
Arterial muscle tone – forces arterial wall muscle to relax, increasing blood flow, especially in microarteries; lack of insulin reduces flow by allowing these muscles to contract.
Increase in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by parietal cells in the stomach
Decreased renal sodium excretion.[39]
Insulin also influences other body functions, such as vascular compliance and cognition. Once insulin enters the human brain, it enhances learning and memory and benefits verbal memory in particular.[40] Enhancing brain insulin signaling by means of intranasal insulin administration also enhances the acute thermoregulatory and glucoregulatory response to food intake, suggesting that central nervous insulin contributes to the control of whole-body energy homeostasis in humans.[41] Insulin also has stimulatory effects on gonadotropin-releasing hormone from the hypothalamus, thus favoring fertility.
Then you are correct and I agree with you but to say that insulin just aids storing fat then that is utterly wrong furthermore grossly oversimplified. As obvious from the above (simply from Wikipedia BTW) it is also involved in the uptake of glucose and proteins by the cells and way way more
I was under the impression you would be intelligent enough to use Wikipedia yourself I quoted my source I believe that is sufficient. Thank you though for highlighting again that you purely focus on a tiny fraction of a part of the function of insulin. If you had read my reply correctly then you would know that I'm not denying it isn't part of its function but it is most certainly not it sole purpose or its main purpose and you conveniently skipped the other important functions in your reply as well as its not relevant really to the OPs question.
If you feel the need to be right all the time and highjack to OPs post to argue this point then I welcome you to it, but its pretty petty.
What I said was
to which you repliedInsulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
You then pasted from Wikipedia, and it looks like you didn't actually read what you pasted because as I pointed out, right there are words that show what I said is, in fact, correct.actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong!
You seem to now be trying to cover by making this about me being right or wrong, perhaps because you're worried it will be about you being right or wrong?0 -
Well if you mean this:
The actions of insulin (indirect and direct) on cells include:
Increased glycogen synthesis – insulin forces storage of glucose in liver (and muscle) cells in the form of glycogen; lowered levels of insulin cause liver cells to convert glycogen to glucose and excrete it into the blood. This is the clinical action of insulin, which is directly useful in reducing high blood glucose levels as in diabetes.
Increased lipid synthesis – insulin forces fat cells to take in blood lipids, which are converted to triglycerides; lack of insulin causes the reverse.[35][clarification needed (see talk)]
Increased esterification of fatty acids – forces adipose tissue to make fats (i.e., triglycerides) from fatty acid esters; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased proteolysis – decreasing the breakdown of protein
Decreased lipolysis – forces reduction in conversion of fat cell lipid stores into blood fatty acids; lack of insulin causes the reverse.
Decreased gluconeogenesis – decreases production of glucose from nonsugar substrates, primarily in the liver (the vast majority of endogenous insulin arriving at the liver never leaves the liver); lack of insulin causes glucose production from assorted substrates in the liver and elsewhere.
Decreased autophagy - decreased level of degradation of damaged organelles. Postprandial levels inhibit autophagy completely.[36]
Increased amino acid uptake – forces cells to absorb circulating amino acids; lack of insulin inhibits absorption.
Increased potassium uptake – forces cells to absorb serum potassium; lack of insulin inhibits absorption. Insulin's increase in cellular potassium uptake lowers potassium levels in blood. This possibly occurs via insulin-induced translocation of the Na+/K+-ATPase to the surface of skeletal muscle cells.[37][38]
Arterial muscle tone – forces arterial wall muscle to relax, increasing blood flow, especially in microarteries; lack of insulin reduces flow by allowing these muscles to contract.
Increase in the secretion of hydrochloric acid by parietal cells in the stomach
Decreased renal sodium excretion.[39]
Insulin also influences other body functions, such as vascular compliance and cognition. Once insulin enters the human brain, it enhances learning and memory and benefits verbal memory in particular.[40] Enhancing brain insulin signaling by means of intranasal insulin administration also enhances the acute thermoregulatory and glucoregulatory response to food intake, suggesting that central nervous insulin contributes to the control of whole-body energy homeostasis in humans.[41] Insulin also has stimulatory effects on gonadotropin-releasing hormone from the hypothalamus, thus favoring fertility.
Then you are correct and I agree with you but to say that insulin just aids storing fat then that is utterly wrong furthermore grossly oversimplified. As obvious from the above (simply from Wikipedia BTW) it is also involved in the uptake of glucose and proteins by the cells and way way more
[/quote]
You copy and pasted wikipedia without even linking it. Look at the bolded. You're saying you agree that you are wrong.
[/quote]
I was under the impression you would be intelligent enough to use Wikipedia yourself I quoted my source I believe that is sufficient. Thank you though for highlighting again that you purely focus on a tiny fraction of a part of the function of insulin. If you had read my reply correctly then you would know that I'm not denying it isn't part of its function but it is most certainly not it sole purpose or its main purpose and you conveniently skipped the other important functions in your reply as well as its not relevant really to the OPs question.
If you feel the need to be right all the time and highjack to OPs post to argue this point then I welcome you to it, but its pretty petty.
[/quote]
Can you show me where I ever said the sole function or primary function is storing fat? You pounced on me for saying insulin signals fat storage to fat cells and said it is used in taking up glucose, as if I had some how said it was only for storing fat.
What I said was
to which you repliedInsulin tells cells to store fat. That means the fat already has to be there, available to the cells. That means, the fat already has to be in your body.
You then pasted from Wikipedia, and it looks like you didn't actually read what you pasted because as I pointed out, right there are words that show what I said is, in fact, correct.actually insulin signals cells to take up glucose not fat, what you posted is completely and utterly wrong!
You seem to now be trying to cover by making this about me being right or wrong, perhaps because you're worried it will be about you being right or wrong?[/quote]
I believe I already highlighted that I was wrong in part (see bolded italic previous comment) some of us have busy lives and I did in fact go back after I came home from work and actually went into more detail as to why I disagree with you and quoted from a (majority) factual source. like I said you want to argue then lets leave it at agree to disagree, I really don't want the highjack the OPs post any longer0 -
0
This discussion has been closed.
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