Obesity a disease?
Replies
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For anyone interested, this is a full access article from American Journal of Clinical Nutrition that is worth a read. It discusses the link between poverty and obesity.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/1/6.full0 -
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.
OH MY !!! I am taking this one. There is a correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food not because of price but because of attitude and choices. Yes, ATTITUDE and CHOICES. There is also a correlation between the percentage of smokers in the lower income bracket versus middle income or them evil rich fat cats. What is the deal there? Again, attitude and choices.
Also, to your second point about getting more food at a fast food place for $20, you need to bounce your head on a table for a little while and re-think what you wrote. How about instead of buying a prepared salad, rotisserie chick and a little tub of dressing you buy a head of lettuce, then chop it up, buy a whole chicken or frozen chicken breasts and cook them ahead of time on the grill, then also buy a bottle of dressing. I can guarantee you that is a lot less than $20 and will feed a family of 4 for at least 2 meals if they are eating proper portions. It is all about preparedness and CHOICES!!!!0 -
I certainly don't see a problem with heavy taxes on certain foods. I feel the same way about booze and cigs. User pays...
spoken like a true orthorexic^^^^
oh, were you gong to eat that? let me "clean " it for you
if u think i should have to pay more for ice cream, because some person is obese, thats just crazy...While were at it, how about we add additional taxes to gasoline since I dont drive and your exhaust is unhealthy. Yeah, pretty senseless isnt it? I loathe self centered individuals.
Exactly. That is ridiculous!! I should pay more because I can eat in moderation? Or if I want to have a drink after a long day? You have got to be kidding!0 -
But if taxes worked, wouldn't it be preferable to prevent the disease than to treat it, and pay higher health insurance premiums as a result? Did you read the World Health Organisation Bulletin I linked earlier? It suggests that taxes may have a positive effect on obesity incidence.
No. That wouldn't convince me. Taxes can't be the answer for everything. I like the freedom concept of America. I'm OK with premiums going up a little (possibly with a healthy BMI deduction)...which would be a hidden extra payment if your entire family isn't normal weight. that's different than taxing people at point of sale. What if someone is perfectly skinny and healthy?
I'm sure we could tax our way to curb most behaviors but that doesn't make it right. Should we tax women who want to date the bikers to reduce heart breaks?
Should we tax women who have a child out of wedlock because statistics show there is an increased likelihood she will cost the community money in assistance?
Taxes just aren't the answer to everything. I don't think smoking is a good example. Smoking is always bad for you. Food is NOT always bad for you. Even fattening foods are OK with moderation. How would they know you aren't planning a killer work out later in the day to burn off the calories?0 -
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.
OH MY !!! I am taking this one. There is a correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food not because of price but because of attitude and choices. Yes, ATTITUDE and CHOICES. There is also a correlation between the percentage of smokers in the lower income bracket versus middle income or them evil rich fat cats. What is the deal there? Again, attitude and choices.
Also, to your second point about getting more food at a fast food place for $20, you need to bounce your head on a table for a little while and re-think what you wrote. How about instead of buying a prepared salad, rotisserie chick and a little tub of dressing you buy a head of lettuce, then chop it up, buy a whole chicken or frozen chicken breasts and cook them ahead of time on the grill, then also buy a bottle of dressing. I can guarantee you that is a lot less than $20 and will feed a family of 4 for at least 2 meals if they are eating proper portions. It is all about preparedness and CHOICES!!!!
Time is money and effort to prepare is money though. It's the same with microwavable foods. When i buy healthy it is definitely cheaper but then I need to put in the time and effort to make the food (and the patience to wait) compared to fast food and microwavable food.
The way your argument would be valid is if you could just go shopping and put all the healthy foods you bought in a box and it came out prepared and tasty. Other than that, it is a matter of how much you value your time.
I guess what I'm saying is you both have good arguments but everything must be considered. It would be like you arguing it is cheaper to make your won chair than to buy one. Yes...the wood might be cheaper but the time and effort might not be worth your while. ...unless you enjoy woodshop...same with food. If you enjoy cooking then you might not even count it as a negative. I'm enjoying eating healthy but occasionally I do like to pop something in the microwave and come back at the next commercial break and eat.0 -
So now that obesity is a disease.....I wonder how long will it take for people to call in "fat"? I mean really. Why not we as a nation are so lazy to start with and don't worry about what we eat. I know for myself the last 20 weeks I've been working over 100 hours a week and I didn't pay attention to what I was eating until I was done with that crazy and realized how much crap I was eating. Glad to be back on MFP0
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That's doesn't negate anything I said. There is a correlation, but I think it's more about culture, education (as in how to cook, what to buy, etc), perhaps in some cases people lack a kitchen (ie, homeless), but we're primarily hitting convenience and taste, imo.
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.
Convenience is a whole nother ballgame. You always pay for it. That doesn't mean you can't shop and buy healthy foods for a reasonable amount. Rice and beans with a little meat and vegetables is quite cheap and will feed you many meals healthier than fast food. I think we do a disservice to people when we tell them that it's not possible to buy healthy food cheaply.0 -
Time is money and effort to prepare is money though. It's the same with microwavable foods. When i buy healthy it is definitely cheaper but then I need to put in the time and effort to make the food (and the patience to wait) compared to fast food and microwavable food.
The way your argument would be valid is if you could just go shopping and put all the healthy foods you bought in a box and it came out prepared and tasty. Other than that, it is a matter of how much you value your time.
You have a very valid point, but it only works if you are actually taking time away from making money to prepare that food.
Nope, it still comes back to choices. If you want to eat affordable but still healthy you will make the choice to prepare ahead of time. I did this yesterday. We had baseball last night after work so we wouldn't have time to prepare a healthy meal, but guess what, I prepared it early. I came home at lunch, fried up some lean hamburger and made taco meat then went back to work. I could have stopped at the taco joint and bought taco's for the kids and a taco salad for myself but it wouldn't have been a healthy version and for the same money I was able to make enough for supper last night and lunch today.
Thing is, people will always make excuses but it is about choices.0 -
Well, Congress declared pizza a vegetable, so I don't know how much I care for nomenclature anymore. I think we are best left to our own interpretations.0
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This.Leptin resistance. Look it up. Someone already mentioned it in this thread but everyone is too caught up fat shaming to pay any attention.
There is a physiological basis for obsesity. Our eating habits are not as simple as "eat/don't eat". That is simple ignorance.0 -
Everything is a disease nowadays because people just can't take personal responsibility for anything.0
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Um yes. This is the way life works. If you want something convenient and cheap (and healthy) buy a banana but for the most part, we pay for convenience. I cook one day a week usually. It might take me an hour or two. Most people have plenty of time for this.When i buy healthy it is definitely cheaper but then I need to put in the time and effort to make the food (and the patience to wait) compared to fast food and microwavable food.0 -
Be careful what power you give to govenment, remember someone has to choose which "vices" are taxed/regulated/outlawed, and YOUR favorite may be next. For me personal respnsibility is the way to go. As long as you're not hurting anyone else, do whatever you want.
... I certainly don't see a problem with heavy taxes on certain foods. I feel the same way about booze and cigs. User pays...
I feel like people are really missing something important here. You already pay more for your vice, if your vice is healthier food. Think about what foods the government subsidizes, and think about what it doesn't. Think about what our schoolchildren eat. It's the food that was the cheapest to produce, and that is heavily subsidized. This fear that you may have to pay more than you should for your "junk food" (relative term, I know), it's already been happening, it's just happening in reverse.0 -
Why are we connecting classifying it as a disease with giving people an excuse to do it? How is that relevant at all? If anything, I think the awareness that carelessly eating and being overweight is potentially life-threatening and hard to undo will help people (and their doctors) to emphasize prevention strategies. Making it a medical issue instead of a social one will make it easier for your doctor to say 'you are at risk for becoming obese, which could cause severe complications. Let's re-assess your diet and exercise habits and try to nip this in the bud.'
A lot of diseases are preventable, treatable, and even reversible if caught early enough with minimal pharmaceutical help - very few are completely unavoidable. To think that obesity being classified as a disease will get people to "give up" trying to manage their weight because "well, I'm already sick, might as well wait for the doctor to fix it for me" is like thinking that people will stop brushing their teeth at the first sign of a cavity because "well, I've already got it, might as well wait for the dentist to fix it for me." It's highly unlikely that increasing awareness of the risk factors will decrease the chance that people at risk will do something about it. It's actually a little silly to me.
Wasn't sure how I felt about this, but this makes the most sense and is very well said.
let's be honest. people who are fat and are not wiling to change their habits or do anything about it are the ones that will use this as an excuse. they are the type of people who are always looking for an excuse so that they don't have to take accountibility and change. if it's not this it would have been something else. those who want to make a change or who are serious about their health wouldnt use this as an excuse. like others have said, if anything, it is going to raise awareness of the effects obesity can have on your health.
people who want to change will change. people who dont, will continue doing what they are doing. I assure you, they probably have a plethora of excuses already.0 -
Did you actually read what I posted in later threads or any of the links I posted?I certainly don't see a problem with heavy taxes on certain foods. I feel the same way about booze and cigs. User pays...
spoken like a true orthorexic^^^^
oh, were you gong to eat that? let me "clean " it for you
if u think i should have to pay more for ice cream, because some person is obese, thats just crazy...While were at it, how about we add additional taxes to gasoline since I dont drive and your exhaust is unhealthy. Yeah, pretty senseless isnt it? I loathe self centered individuals.
Exactly. That is ridiculous!! I should pay more because I can eat in moderation? Or if I want to have a drink after a long day? You have got to be kidding!
Obviously not. Before you jump on the bandwagon, perhaps you could actually read what I'm suggesting. It's also been suggested by the World Health Organisation and other credible organisations.
Sigh......0 -
This.Leptin resistance. Look it up. Someone already mentioned it in this thread but everyone is too caught up fat shaming to pay any attention.
There is a physiological basis for obsesity. Our eating habits are not as simple as "eat/don't eat". That is simple ignorance.
Are you really trying to say that overeating, junk food and a sedentary lifestyle arent the main reasons why so many people are obese? Yes, there are valid medical conditions that can cause someone to gain weight or have issues losing weight but can we get REAL here???? 99% of the time personal responsibility has to be taken for the state we have let ourselves get to.0 -
Yes, there is some personal responsibility in every decision that we make, but to say that every disease can be linked to personal responsibility alone is ignorant. There are some people who have genetic predispositions to certain diseases and being armed with that information can not take away that fact. Yes, people have that right to make better decisions to decrease the chance of a diagnosis, but all the good choices in the world does not negate genetics. (I am not talking about obesity as a disease, just disease in general)0
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The salad and chicken comment was a comparison of speed and convenience with regards to buying fresh food from a supermarket (that didn't require preparation) and buying fast food from a fast food joint. Did you miss that point?
That may be your experience but there is a strong correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food.
I ALWAYS spend less when I cook from home, even when I buy steak then when I get fast food. It is cheaper, you just have to actually cook and shop sales.If fresh food was more affordable and available, and fast food was more expensive, perhaps it could made some difference in their choices.
Also, re the tax issues, lots of places already tax fast food more then grocery store. I think our grocery store food is taxed at 3% (except some stuff which isn’t, I’ve never figured out the rules on this) and fast food is taxed at 11 or 12 percent. It still makes no difference because it’s not about cost it’s about convenience.
Fresh food can also be convenient, but it's expensive. When I'm in a rush, I can go to the supermarket and buy a prepared salad with a little tub of dressing and a rotisserie chicken but I won't have much change from $20. The same amount of money will buy a lot more food at Most fast food places.
OH MY !!! I am taking this one. There is a correlation between lower income and higher consumption of fast food not because of price but because of attitude and choices. Yes, ATTITUDE and CHOICES. There is also a correlation between the percentage of smokers in the lower income bracket versus middle income or them evil rich fat cats. What is the deal there? Again, attitude and choices.
Also, to your second point about getting more food at a fast food place for $20, you need to bounce your head on a table for a little while and re-think what you wrote. How about instead of buying a prepared salad, rotisserie chick and a little tub of dressing you buy a head of lettuce, then chop it up, buy a whole chicken or frozen chicken breasts and cook them ahead of time on the grill, then also buy a bottle of dressing. I can guarantee you that is a lot less than $20 and will feed a family of 4 for at least 2 meals if they are eating proper portions. It is all about preparedness and CHOICES!!!!
How would you know that the correlation between income and fast food is attitude? Why are you yelling for that matter? Can you provide some evidence or is it just your opinion? So far I've seen nothing but opinion. I would like to see a little evidence. At least I provided that courtesy when I voiced my opinion.
I certainly feel like bouncing my head against a table but not for the reasons you are suggesting.0 -
The answer to this question surely must include attention to the medial/physical, behavioral, psychological, economic, and social aspects of obesity,
Many physicians are reluctant to prescribe medication for problems which are not officially classifiable as a "disorder" or a "disease." I'm not bashing them for this. If there's a bad outcome for a patient who has been given a medication for something which is not a disease or condition, (off-label prescribing) and there is a lawsuit, the result can be that the physician will write the number "1" on a check and the court will tell him/her how many zeros to fill in after it. For this reason, physicians have become very risk averse. So, it will be less risky for them if they can to treat the "disease" of obesity with one of the many medications currently being developed. This is one of the reasons why the AMA has such interest in this classification. Bariatric surgery presents a huge problem if obesity is not a "disease". It has some bad outcomes for some, but it also saves many lives. Why are we doing such a major procedure on people if obesity is not a disease state?
When offered a choice between a behavioral/lifestyle change and "a pill", many people (not all) want the "easier" choice of a pill unless they are generally opposed to medications. Makes sense--just look at the ads on TV for pharmaceuticals--wouldn't YOU want to be as happy as those people, and have that just by taking a pill? We are told by the ads, "Ask your doctor"...
Health care professionals are under extremely tight schedules. Too few of them and too many patients. Logistics alone make it impossible for a health care provider to sit with a patient and go through all the education that is needed to help them with behavioral management. It takes seconds to write a prescription--many visits to coach someone through behavioral change. Our medical center had behavioral management specialists associated with Primary Care teams for this purpose. Even their visits were limited to 30 minutes, with no more than 3 -4 visits allowed. Ask yourself, if you could make weight issues go away with a pill or by months and sometimes years of hard work and multiple expensive sessions with a health care professional, what would you do? If you chose "hard work and expense", well, you're a better person than I am.
People overeat and become obese for lots of reasons--life stresses are paramount among these. Many jobs are mostly sedentary. I believe that mostly, people do the best they can given their particular set of circumstances.
Diagnostic classifications come and go as science and research evolve and social thinking changes. In the mental health field, we are seeing a huge change in diagnostic decision making with the soon to be released DSM-V. Yet, the same symptom pictures have been around for a long time. For example, we used to diagnose and classify people with mental retardation as "idiots" and "imbiciles" in an effort to target treatments to them more specifically based on their level of developmental problems. Of course, these classifications no longer exist (thankfully), but the conditions that they represent do. What would you think of alcoholism? Is that a disease or just a person who can't control him/herself? Does classifying it as a disease matter? It does to the person suffering from it--having poor self control will not bring any treatment, will it? Is overeating different from a substance-related disorder?
So, it's not a simple problem. I honestly think that AMA tries to do the best it can in supporting physicians who are struggling to care for their patients who are suffering. The first adage of the medical profession is "Do no harm." What are the benefits/risks of calling obesity a disease?
There are many more questions about this than answers, I believe. Most of medicine is like that. There are very few things that are straightforward in medical practice. You can be sure that there will be lots of discussion about thing among medical professionals and that the treatment of obesity will continue to evolve, no matter what it is called. Some treatments will be helpful, others will carry more risk than benefit. As for me, I can't answer this question yet. There's so much that we simply don't know.0 -
Different diets affect people differently. I think we were fed a load of bad science in the 80's that convinced us to lower fat/meat consumption and raise carbohydrate consumption and that for a lot of people this led to obesity. Look at the stats. We did what the health 'authorities' suggested and got much fatter as a result. And then got blamed for being lazy.Are you really trying to say that overeating, junk food and a sedentary lifestyle arent the main reasons why so many people are obese?0 -
The answer to this question surely must include attention to the medial/physical, behavioral, psychological, economic, and social aspects of obesity,
Many physicians are reluctant to prescribe medication for problems which are not officially classifiable as a "disorder" or a "disease." I'm not bashing them for this. If there's a bad outcome for a patient who has been given a medication for something which is not a disease or condition, (off-label prescribing) and there is a lawsuit, the result can be that the physician will write the number "1" on a check and the court will tell him/her how many zeros to fill in after it. For this reason, physicians have become very risk averse. So, it will be less risky for them if they can to treat the "disease" of obesity with one of the many medications currently being developed. This is one of the reasons why the AMA has such interest in this classification. Bariatric surgery presents a huge problem if obesity is not a "disease". It has some bad outcomes for some, but it also saves many lives. Why are we doing such a major procedure on people if obesity is not a disease state?
When offered a choice between a behavioral/lifestyle change and "a pill", many people (not all) want the "easier" choice of a pill unless they are generally opposed to medications. Makes sense--just look at the ads on TV for pharmaceuticals--wouldn't YOU want to be as happy as those people, and have that just by taking a pill? We are told by the ads, "Ask your doctor"...
Health care professionals are under extremely tight schedules. Too few of them and too many patients. Logistics alone make it impossible for a health care provider to sit with a patient and go through all the education that is needed to help them with behavioral management. It takes seconds to write a prescription--many visits to coach someone through behavioral change. Our medical center had behavioral management specialists associated with Primary Care teams for this purpose. Even their visits were limited to 30 minutes, with no more than 3 -4 visits allowed. Ask yourself, if you could make weight issues go away with a pill or by months and sometimes years of hard work and multiple expensive sessions with a health care professional, what would you do? If you chose "hard work and expense", well, you're a better person than I am.
People overeat and become obese for lots of reasons--life stresses are paramount among these. Many jobs are mostly sedentary. I believe that mostly, people do the best they can given their particular set of circumstances.
Diagnostic classifications come and go as science and research evolve and social thinking changes. In the mental health field, we are seeing a huge change in diagnostic decision making with the soon to be released DSM-V. Yet, the same symptom pictures have been around for a long time. For example, we used to diagnose and classify people with mental retardation as "idiots" and "imbiciles" in an effort to target treatments to them more specifically based on their level of developmental problems. Of course, these classifications no longer exist (thankfully), but the conditions that they represent do. What would you think of alcoholism? Is that a disease or just a person who can't control him/herself? Does classifying it as a disease matter? It does to the person suffering from it--having poor self control will not bring any treatment, will it? Is overeating different from a substance-related disorder?
So, it's not a simple problem. I honestly think that AMA tries to do the best it can in supporting physicians who are struggling to care for their patients who are suffering. The first adage of the medical profession is "Do no harm." What are the benefits/risks of calling obesity a disease?
There are many more questions about this than answers, I believe. Most of medicine is like that. There are very few things that are straightforward in medical practice. You can be sure that there will be lots of discussion about thing among medical professionals and that the treatment of obesity will continue to evolve, no matter what it is called. Some treatments will be helpful, others will carry more risk than benefit. As for me, I can't answer this question yet. There's so much that we simply don't know.
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This.Leptin resistance. Look it up. Someone already mentioned it in this thread but everyone is too caught up fat shaming to pay any attention.
There is a physiological basis for obsesity. Our eating habits are not as simple as "eat/don't eat". That is simple ignorance.
Are you really trying to say that overeating, junk food and a sedentary lifestyle arent the main reasons why so many people are obese? Yes, there are valid medical conditions that can cause someone to gain weight or have issues losing weight but can we get REAL here???? 99% of the time personal responsibility has to be taken for the state we have let ourselves get to.
Have you ever met a person who seems to be able to eat whatever they want and still remains skinny. My roommate is that way. She eats lucky charms for breakfast every single day. I grew up on oatmeal and with a ban on all sugary cereals. I've never been obese and at max maybe 15 lbs overweight, but I am nowhere near as thin as she is.
There is definitely genetic predisposition. And obesity rates increase as our environment becomes increasingly obesogenic- sedentary lifestyles with big advertisement of cheap and easily accessible junk food. So yes, while those things create the environment that leads to obesity, it does not account for why some individuals are obese and some aren't. You cannot place all blame on individuals. It's silly and ignorant to say that we without any reference to culture, socio-economic status, and individual physiology decide whether or not we are fat.
For frak's sake we stigmatize the hell out of fat people and make their lives pretty miserable and yet call them lazy and blame it on them. It's pretty easily relatable to homophobia. If being gay was a choice don't you think that people would CHOOSE to not be shunned by their families and communities? If being fat was a simple matter of willpower don't you think everyone would be thin!!?
I know very strong people who are successful in every aspects of their lives but still struggle with weight. My mother worked her way out of poverty and through grad school with no one's help but her own. She is extremely successful in her work and has managed to raise 2 children. Is she lazy because she's obese? Yeah....I don't think so.0 -
The answer to this question surely must include attention to the medial/physical, behavioral, psychological, economic, and social aspects of obesity,
Many physicians are reluctant to prescribe medication for problems which are not officially classifiable as a "disorder" or a "disease." I'm not bashing them for this. If there's a bad outcome for a patient who has been given a medication for something which is not a disease or condition, (off-label prescribing) and there is a lawsuit, the result can be that the physician will write the number "1" on a check and the court will tell him/her how many zeros to fill in after it. For this reason, physicians have become very risk averse. So, it will be less risky for them if they can to treat the "disease" of obesity with one of the many medications currently being developed. This is one of the reasons why the AMA has such interest in this classification. Bariatric surgery presents a huge problem if obesity is not a "disease". It has some bad outcomes for some, but it also saves many lives. Why are we doing such a major procedure on people if obesity is not a disease state?
When offered a choice between a behavioral/lifestyle change and "a pill", many people (not all) want the "easier" choice of a pill unless they are generally opposed to medications. Makes sense--just look at the ads on TV for pharmaceuticals--wouldn't YOU want to be as happy as those people, and have that just by taking a pill? We are told by the ads, "Ask your doctor"...
Health care professionals are under extremely tight schedules. Too few of them and too many patients. Logistics alone make it impossible for a health care provider to sit with a patient and go through all the education that is needed to help them with behavioral management. It takes seconds to write a prescription--many visits to coach someone through behavioral change. Our medical center had behavioral management specialists associated with Primary Care teams for this purpose. Even their visits were limited to 30 minutes, with no more than 3 -4 visits allowed. Ask yourself, if you could make weight issues go away with a pill or by months and sometimes years of hard work and multiple expensive sessions with a health care professional, what would you do? If you chose "hard work and expense", well, you're a better person than I am.
People overeat and become obese for lots of reasons--life stresses are paramount among these. Many jobs are mostly sedentary. I believe that mostly, people do the best they can given their particular set of circumstances.
Diagnostic classifications come and go as science and research evolve and social thinking changes. In the mental health field, we are seeing a huge change in diagnostic decision making with the soon to be released DSM-V. Yet, the same symptom pictures have been around for a long time. For example, we used to diagnose and classify people with mental retardation as "idiots" and "imbiciles" in an effort to target treatments to them more specifically based on their level of developmental problems. Of course, these classifications no longer exist (thankfully), but the conditions that they represent do. What would you think of alcoholism? Is that a disease or just a person who can't control him/herself? Does classifying it as a disease matter? It does to the person suffering from it--having poor self control will not bring any treatment, will it? Is overeating different from a substance-related disorder?
So, it's not a simple problem. I honestly think that AMA tries to do the best it can in supporting physicians who are struggling to care for their patients who are suffering. The first adage of the medical profession is "Do no harm." What are the benefits/risks of calling obesity a disease?
There are many more questions about this than answers, I believe. Most of medicine is like that. There are very few things that are straightforward in medical practice. You can be sure that there will be lots of discussion about thing among medical professionals and that the treatment of obesity will continue to evolve, no matter what it is called. Some treatments will be helpful, others will carry more risk than benefit. As for me, I can't answer this question yet. There's so much that we simply don't know.
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Wow a lot of people are missing a HUGE issue that is probably most an American problem. What about the numbers of kids who are obese now? If we classify this as a disease, and doctors can point out to parents before the kids have diabetes and heart problems that their weight is a problem - AS A MEDICAL ISSUE, might it not help with reducing childhood obesity? Also, what about the thousands of kids who are growing up obese or even those who are not but who are in homes with bad eating habits? If they hit adulthood and they want to lose weight, the classification of obesity as a disease will increase the resources they have to learn about healthy habits. I was in one of those homes. I was actually an underweight teen, but I had some horribly ingrained eating patterns and as an adult, when my metabolism slowed and I didn't change my eating or exercise habits (but I also didn't have to go to school every day nor did I have a PE class anymore), I quickly became overweight. Add a couple of pregnancies, toxemia, and weight gain from birth control products, and I was obese. I had no clue how to eat right, and I did not know what a portion size was. I didn't have a support system, so I didn't have any accountability even if I did try to lose weight. My doctors certainly never said it was bad. As a matter of fact, I had one doctor tell me that as long as I was comfortable with my weight and I didn't have any of the related diseases, then I was just fine. It wasn't until my dad got diabetes that I realized that I needed to do something different. And it has definitely been a huge learning experience! I did not know A LOT! And my parents and other family members didn't either, so they could not have taught me. Classifying obesity as a disease, at the very least, opens up the discussion and helps more people realize what is going on and how society has trained us to overeat and how we can re-teach ourselves and our children about proper eating habits. And look at the discussion here even; we are talking about it. Yes people have their opinions and some refuse to see anyone else's point of view. That's always true so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone here. But the real point is that people have started TALKING about it! Which is the first step to making changes.
First of all-- congrats on your weight loss thus far-- incredible progress!
Beyond that-- I'm calling shenanigans.
Have obese kids? Stop buying and serving them crap, and more importantly, turn off the freaking TV set, confiscate little junior's iPhone, iPad, iEverything, and kick their fannies outdoors to play. it's called parental responsibility.
Are there other issues-- "leptin resistance" et cetera-- sure, now and then, of course-- there is Cushings syndrome, metabolic disorders, thyroid conditions-- there are definitely occasional things beyond a person's control.
However, if anyone here would presume to say that is the norm, then I'm Lola Falana.0 -
What's next? Smoking a disease? Drinking.....wait that's already classed as one.
What about this....... IT IS YOUR OWN fault you are fat......
Take some responsibility for YOUR own actions....regardless of what it is.
AGREED! and it is also your own fault if you smoke, have a drinking problem and drug problem. If you got yourself into the mess then you need to get yourself out whether it is on your own or by getting help. People need to stop blaming others when their health go's to **** because they don't look after themselves.0 -
The salad and chicken comment was a comparison of speed and convenience with regards to buying fresh food from a supermarket (that didn't require preparation) and buying fast food from a fast food joint. Did you miss that point?
How would you know that the correlation between income and fast food is attitude? Why are you yelling for that matter? Can you provide some evidence or is it just your opinion? So far I've seen nothing but opinion. I would like to see a little evidence. At least I provided that courtesy when I voiced my opinion.
I certainly feel like bouncing my head against a table but not for the reasons you are suggesting.
Nope, got your point, but you didn't get mine. It is about choice. If you make the choice to eat healthy and cost is an issue then you will not take the convenient route, you will make the choice to prepare ahead of time. If cost is not an issue then you have more options. If cost is not an issue then you have probably made some other choices in your life that led you to the point that cost is not an issue.
I am not providing links to evidence because I don't think I should need to. It is all common sense. I do not need evidence on this subject from some liberal newspaper or liberal world organization to know I am right. Those organizations are all about no individual responsibility and I take pretty much everything from them with a grain of salt when it comes to this subject. So it is not opinion, it is common sense. Something that each year this country and for that matter most of the world is getting less and less of.0 -
This.Leptin resistance. Look it up. Someone already mentioned it in this thread but everyone is too caught up fat shaming to pay any attention.
There is a physiological basis for obsesity. Our eating habits are not as simple as "eat/don't eat". That is simple ignorance.
Are you really trying to say that overeating, junk food and a sedentary lifestyle arent the main reasons why so many people are obese? Yes, there are valid medical conditions that can cause someone to gain weight or have issues losing weight but can we get REAL here???? 99% of the time personal responsibility has to be taken for the state we have let ourselves get to.
Have you ever met a person who seems to be able to eat whatever they want and still remains skinny. My roommate is that way. She eats lucky charms for breakfast every single day. I grew up on oatmeal and with a ban on all sugary cereals. I've never been obese and at max maybe 15 lbs overweight, but I am nowhere near as thin as she is.
There is definitely genetic predisposition. And obesity rates increase as our environment becomes increasingly obesogenic- sedentary lifestyles with big advertisement of cheap and easily accessible junk food. So yes, while those things create the environment that leads to obesity, it does not account for why some individuals are obese and some aren't. You cannot place all blame on individuals. It's silly and ignorant to say that we without any reference to culture, socio-economic status, and individual physiology decide whether or not we are fat.
For frak's sake we stigmatize the hell out of fat people and make their lives pretty miserable and yet call them lazy and blame it on them. It's pretty easily relatable to homophobia. If being gay was a choice don't you think that people would CHOOSE to not be shunned by their families and communities? If being fat was a simple matter of willpower don't you think everyone would be thin!!?
I know very strong people who are successful in every aspects of their lives but still struggle with weight. My mother worked her way out of poverty and through grad school with no one's help but her own. She is extremely successful in her work and has managed to raise 2 children. Is she lazy because she's obese? Yeah....I don't think so.
There are environmental hurdles that make it hard but like I said before I think there needs to be accountability on the individual. I will never agree that a person isn't more then SOMEWHAT responsible for their bodies. I think THAT is ignorant. They need to be aware of the harm that they are in and they need to try and figure out what they can do to take care of themselves. Even if all they can do are small steps at first at least it's a START.
I live in a community where many people are under the poverty line. I have lived there all my life. I know these people. I know the culture. They are my friends and family. And I can tell you that yes there are issues out of their control, but the reason why there are SO many obese people in my community is because they overeat and they are sendentary. HUGE plates of food. No water. Would rather take the bus a block then walk it. and they get bigger. and they see they are getting bigger and they KNOW why but they continue to lead the same lifestyle. and none of them take responsiblity.
Of course strong successful people struggle with weight. I am a living breathing example of it. So is your mother. That's not in dispute. The word lazy was not thrown around by me either. Is there a genetic pre-disposition to being able to gain fat more easily? Of course. They're called endomorphs. Is there a socia-economic impact on individuals that cause they to be bigger? Sure. It is more acceptable is certain cultures to overeat. Those who are poor tend to weigh more.
But the number of calories a person has every single day IS about willpower. Plain and simple. At the end of the day, in my opinion, it is about calories in and calories out. People keep saying its cheaper to eat junk food and too expensive to buy and eat fresh foods? Guess what? You do NOT HAVE TO EAT CLEAN to lose weight. You just have to eat less. All you have are poptarts bc they were the cheapest thing to get? Eat one. Not two. You had to buy a burger from the dollar menu? Eat ONE burger not three. In many cases that is the solution to the obesity problem. Not in all cases, but in many cases. Many times, when someone is 300, 400, 500 pounds, the sheer AMOUNT of food they have to eat every single day to stay that way and get bigger is astounding. I know this from EXPERIENCE. Guess what is going to happen for most of these people if they start eating less? They'll lose weight.
It's a miracle.
I know all about poverty and cultures who tell you it is acceptable to be bigger. I know about the hurdles. I lived through some of them. At the end of the day I took responsiblity for eating too much and being obese and I found out what I needed to do to help myself. It wasn't easy but I educated myself and did it. There are hurdles but there are ways to get over those hurdles. The question becomes how important is it to them and how bad do they want it?0 -
Exactly. Convenient versus price is a trade off. It's awfull convenient to have someone else prepare all your food for you, but most of us can't afford it. If you can't afford it, either get a better job or start cooking. Those are pretty much your options if you want to eat healthy.Nope, got your point, but you didn't get mine. It is about choice. If you make the choice to eat healthy and cost is an issue then you will not take the convenient route, you will make the choice to prepare ahead of time.0 -
Wow a lot of people are missing a HUGE issue that is probably most an American problem. What about the numbers of kids who are obese now? If we classify this as a disease, and doctors can point out to parents before the kids have diabetes and heart problems that their weight is a problem - AS A MEDICAL ISSUE, might it not help with reducing childhood obesity? Also, what about the thousands of kids who are growing up obese or even those who are not but who are in homes with bad eating habits? If they hit adulthood and they want to lose weight, the classification of obesity as a disease will increase the resources they have to learn about healthy habits. I was in one of those homes. I was actually an underweight teen, but I had some horribly ingrained eating patterns and as an adult, when my metabolism slowed and I didn't change my eating or exercise habits (but I also didn't have to go to school every day nor did I have a PE class anymore), I quickly became overweight. Add a couple of pregnancies, toxemia, and weight gain from birth control products, and I was obese. I had no clue how to eat right, and I did not know what a portion size was. I didn't have a support system, so I didn't have any accountability even if I did try to lose weight. My doctors certainly never said it was bad. As a matter of fact, I had one doctor tell me that as long as I was comfortable with my weight and I didn't have any of the related diseases, then I was just fine. It wasn't until my dad got diabetes that I realized that I needed to do something different. And it has definitely been a huge learning experience! I did not know A LOT! And my parents and other family members didn't either, so they could not have taught me. Classifying obesity as a disease, at the very least, opens up the discussion and helps more people realize what is going on and how society has trained us to overeat and how we can re-teach ourselves and our children about proper eating habits. And look at the discussion here even; we are talking about it. Yes people have their opinions and some refuse to see anyone else's point of view. That's always true so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone here. But the real point is that people have started TALKING about it! Which is the first step to making changes.
First of all-- congrats on your weight loss thus far-- incredible progress!
Beyond that-- I'm calling shenanigans.
Have obese kids? Stop buying and serving them crap, and more importantly, turn off the freaking TV set, confiscate little junior's iPhone, iPad, iEverything, and kick their fannies outdoors to play. it's called parental responsibility.
Are there other issues-- "leptin resistance" et cetera-- sure, now and then, of course-- there is Cushings syndrome, metabolic disorders, thyroid conditions-- there are definitely occasional things beyond a person's control.
However, if anyone here would presume to say that is the norm, then I'm Lola Falana.
agree - my mom always bought mostly healthy stuff and did not let me gorge on cookies, junk food etc ...well maybe once in a while, but it was within reason...she also made me get my *kitten* out of the house and play, ride my bike, etc...
If younger kids these day were not glued to Xbox while shoveling Doritos down their throats then they would not be obese...I mean there was one story on the new about a mom that took her kid to McDonalds every day for lunch and dinner...come on!0 -
Different diets affect people differently. I think we were fed a load of bad science in the 80's that convinced us to lower fat/meat consumption and raise carbohydrate consumption and that for a lot of people this led to obesity. Look at the stats. We did what the health 'authorities' suggested and got much fatter as a result. And then got blamed for being lazy.Are you really trying to say that overeating, junk food and a sedentary lifestyle arent the main reasons why so many people are obese?
I do agree there is a lot of bad science out there that causes people to do the wrong thing. but at some point, when you see that what you are doing is not working you have to stop and reassess. you don't just give up and continue down the road of obesity. It's not about being lazy. It's about being determined enough to help yourself.0
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