Stronglifts 5x5
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Deadlifts with a heavy weight frighten the heck out of me , I ve been advised not to do them suffer from bad back, can potentially injure it more, I saw a young girl today do her back in deadlifting heavy, , she was in so much pain, once you've fuffed up yr back that's it end of strength training, maybe use a belt or something, I'm in my late 40's too,0
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ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Also, don't start with just the bar if you can do more, use around 80% of your 5rm, despite what mehdi says. You should only donit to get your form downz or otherwise you'll be ages doing easy stuff that doesn't cause adaptions when you could have been making gains.
The program is a touch dodgy. But is good for the fundamentals. Just make sure you use the antagist movement too to prevent imbalances.
Well noted @ThomasWright1997 many thanks again.
As you are female and if you have never weighlifted before, the bar may be too heavy so you may need to start with dumbells, or lighter fixed weight barbells. Too light is better than too heavy at the beginning to get your form sorted.
Male or female, SL5x5 is barbell work, getting familiar with the barbell is an essential task. Even if it takes you weeks with the 45lb bar, it works to just do it by the program, substituting and doing your own thing when you're trying to learn how to do it without having a beginning knowledge base is like trying to be a chemist without knowing the table of elements.
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+1ThomasWright1997 wrote: »It's alright. For a total beginner.
There's a few flaws in the program though.
Firstly, Underhand Grip bent over rows are superior to overhand Grip ones, and are a better antagonist to the bench press.
For Deadlift, 5 reps I feel is too much, but there should be more than one set as there's not enough volume, I recommend changing the Deadlift from 1x5 to 5x3.
Another thing is that there is no antagonist to the overhead press, and thus a chin up (Underhand) should be added (same grip width as overhead press).
Also, squats 3x per week with deads only once or twice at such low volume will likely result in lagging hamstrings and glutes which could lead to an injury.
Also, squats and deadlifts in the same session is risky, you will have fatigued erectors leading to a weaker Deadlift and you could cause an injury in your spine.
Benches and Presses work the anterior portion of your deltoid too much, while hardly touching the middle and rear portions, which can lead to all kinds of cracks and pops from your shoulders, along with forward rounding. Isolation exercises should fix that.
There is no isolation for the pecs or back, and thus you could add flies and pullovers
So, it should look like this:
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
(Flies optional 3x8-12)
Row 5x5
(Reverse flies optional 3x8-12)
Deadlift 5x3
Press 5x5
(Lateral raises optional 3x8-12)
Chin Up 5x5
(Pullover optional 3x8-12)
It's a simple program, but can lead to weaknesses and thus injuries from muscle imbalances.
Follow the above program (my version I used to follow after having weak hand and glutes and tonic traps with slightly hunched forward shoulders.
You're welcome
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I'm a couple months in and really love it so far and have noticed a lot more strength and muscle definition developing.0
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amyrebeccah wrote: »eatgoodeat wrote: »ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Also, don't start with just the bar if you can do more, use around 80% of your 5rm, despite what mehdi says. You should only donit to get your form downz or otherwise you'll be ages doing easy stuff that doesn't cause adaptions when you could have been making gains.
The program is a touch dodgy. But is good for the fundamentals. Just make sure you use the antagist movement too to prevent imbalances.
Well noted @ThomasWright1997 many thanks again.
As you are female and if you have never weighlifted before, the bar may be too heavy so you may need to start with dumbells, or lighter fixed weight barbells. Too light is better than too heavy at the beginning to get your form sorted.
Male or female, SL5x5 is barbell work, getting familiar with the barbell is an essential task. Even if it takes you weeks with the 45lb bar, it works to just do it by the program, substituting and doing your own thing when you're trying to learn how to do it without having a beginning knowledge base is like trying to be a chemist without knowing the table of elements.
. . .or you could just substitute with a lighter barbell. At any rate, telling someone to go heavier than the bar (especially a woman who is inexperienced with lifting) is irresponsible.
Yeah, there are much lighter bars available. The one I keep in the back yard is mebe 10-15lbs. 1" all the way across and pretty ideal for the very new newbs.
I don't see them in gyms though but straight curl bars can be repurposed also I suppose.0 -
ThomasWright1997 wrote: »It's alright. For a total beginner.
There's a few flaws in the program though.
Firstly, Underhand Grip bent over rows are superior to overhand Grip ones, and are a better antagonist to the bench press.
For Deadlift, 5 reps I feel is too much, but there should be more than one set as there's not enough volume, I recommend changing the Deadlift from 1x5 to 5x3.
Another thing is that there is no antagonist to the overhead press, and thus a chin up (Underhand) should be added (same grip width as overhead press).
Also, squats 3x per week with deads only once or twice at such low volume will likely result in lagging hamstrings and glutes which could lead to an injury.
Also, squats and deadlifts in the same session is risky, you will have fatigued erectors leading to a weaker Deadlift and you could cause an injury in your spine.
Benches and Presses work the anterior portion of your deltoid too much, while hardly touching the middle and rear portions, which can lead to all kinds of cracks and pops from your shoulders, along with forward rounding. Isolation exercises should fix that.
There is no isolation for the pecs or back, and thus you could add flies and pullovers
So, it should look like this:
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
(Flies optional 3x8-12)
Row 5x5
(Reverse flies optional 3x8-12)
Deadlift 5x3
Press 5x5
(Lateral raises optional 3x8-12)
Chin Up 5x5
(Pullover optional 3x8-12)
It's a simple program, but can lead to weaknesses and thus injuries from muscle imbalances.
Follow the above program (my version I used to follow after having weak hand and glutes and tonic traps with slightly hunched forward shoulders.
You're welcome
Wow! @ThomasWright1997 you are professional, this is so helpful, I will follow up all your advices
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you
Unfortunately, I am only an 18 year old wannabe Powerlifter who has a deep understanding in the sciences (currently doing some a levels) and self taught biomechanics.0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »eatgoodeat wrote: »ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Also, don't start with just the bar if you can do more, use around 80% of your 5rm, despite what mehdi says. You should only donit to get your form downz or otherwise you'll be ages doing easy stuff that doesn't cause adaptions when you could have been making gains.
The program is a touch dodgy. But is good for the fundamentals. Just make sure you use the antagist movement too to prevent imbalances.
Well noted @ThomasWright1997 many thanks again.
As you are female and if you have never weighlifted before, the bar may be too heavy so you may need to start with dumbells, or lighter fixed weight barbells. Too light is better than too heavy at the beginning to get your form sorted.
Male or female, SL5x5 is barbell work, getting familiar with the barbell is an essential task. Even if it takes you weeks with the 45lb bar, it works to just do it by the program, substituting and doing your own thing when you're trying to learn how to do it without having a beginning knowledge base is like trying to be a chemist without knowing the table of elements.
. . .or you could just substitute with a lighter barbell. At any rate, telling someone to go heavier than the bar (especially a woman who is inexperienced with lifting) is irresponsible.
Yeah, there are much lighter bars available. The one I keep in the back yard is mebe 10-15lbs. 1" all the way across and pretty ideal for the very new newbs.
I don't see them in gyms though but straight curl bars can be repurposed also I suppose.
I wouldn't use bars like that, they are likely to bend or snap if doing a program like 5x5 where you get to lift some appreciable weight.
I suggest investing into a good strong oly bar, preferably with a psi rating and not a "weight capacity" and also it should have sealed ends.
Think of it like a pair of shoes - you use them (almost) every day and so pay good money for a long lasting pair - a good bar will last indefinitely.0 -
ThomasWright1997 wrote: »ThomasWright1997 wrote: »It's alright. For a total beginner.
There's a few flaws in the program though.
Firstly, Underhand Grip bent over rows are superior to overhand Grip ones, and are a better antagonist to the bench press.
For Deadlift, 5 reps I feel is too much, but there should be more than one set as there's not enough volume, I recommend changing the Deadlift from 1x5 to 5x3.
Another thing is that there is no antagonist to the overhead press, and thus a chin up (Underhand) should be added (same grip width as overhead press).
Also, squats 3x per week with deads only once or twice at such low volume will likely result in lagging hamstrings and glutes which could lead to an injury.
Also, squats and deadlifts in the same session is risky, you will have fatigued erectors leading to a weaker Deadlift and you could cause an injury in your spine.
Benches and Presses work the anterior portion of your deltoid too much, while hardly touching the middle and rear portions, which can lead to all kinds of cracks and pops from your shoulders, along with forward rounding. Isolation exercises should fix that.
There is no isolation for the pecs or back, and thus you could add flies and pullovers
So, it should look like this:
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
(Flies optional 3x8-12)
Row 5x5
(Reverse flies optional 3x8-12)
Deadlift 5x3
Press 5x5
(Lateral raises optional 3x8-12)
Chin Up 5x5
(Pullover optional 3x8-12)
It's a simple program, but can lead to weaknesses and thus injuries from muscle imbalances.
Follow the above program (my version I used to follow after having weak hand and glutes and tonic traps with slightly hunched forward shoulders.
You're welcome
Wow! @ThomasWright1997 you are professional, this is so helpful, I will follow up all your advices
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you
Unfortunately, I am only an 18 year old wannabe Powerlifter who has a deep understanding in the sciences (currently doing some a levels) and self taught biomechanics.
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Deadlifts with a heavy weight frighten the heck out of me , I ve been advised not to do them suffer from bad back, can potentially injure it more, I saw a young girl today do her back in deadlifting heavy, , she was in so much pain, once you've fuffed up yr back that's it end of strength training, maybe use a belt or something, I'm in my late 40's too,
Here's the problem. Dead lifting HEAVY is fine. But 5 reps is not heavy, that will fatigue you and so is dangerous. Above, I have posted a short guide to how you should do 5x5. If you are going to do squats and DL s the same day make sure you squat first and please do them 3+ hours apart.
This is partly where SL is stupid. Arguable the Deadlift is the most easy to break form on and most likely therefore to cause injury. Thus, you should be able to practice it more.
You squat 3x per week to get form down, why not DL for one session so they get equal practice?
Replace one days squats with HEAVY (not 5 reps, more like 1,2 or 3 reps) deads for a few sets (5x3 works well)
And add China to counter balance OHPs0 -
ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Also, don't start with just the bar if you can do more, use around 80% of your 5rm, despite what mehdi says. You should only donit to get your form downz or otherwise you'll be ages doing easy stuff that doesn't cause adaptions when you could have been making gains.
The program is a touch dodgy. But is good for the fundamentals. Just make sure you use the antagist movement too to prevent imbalances.
Well noted @ThomasWright1997 many thanks again.
As you are female and if you have never weighlifted before, the bar may be too heavy so you may need to start with dumbells, or lighter fixed weight barbells. Too light is better than too heavy at the beginning to get your form sorted.
Partly agree, though, I would just mess around with the weights 3x per week until you can say lift 25ks for 5, before dropping to using the bar.
Do this.
Workout B:
Squat (bb or dbs)
Bench (bb or dbs)
Row (bb or dbs)
Workout A:
Dead (bb or dbs)
Press (bb or dbs)
Chin (palms facing) (use Lat pulldown machine if not strong enough for 5+ reps)
Bear in mind, if u use dbs, your rep Max with a bar will be slightly higher.
To find it
If x is the combined dumbbell weight
10(x/9)
(x divide by 9, then that times by 10)
You're welcome0 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »eatgoodeat wrote: »ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Also, don't start with just the bar if you can do more, use around 80% of your 5rm, despite what mehdi says. You should only donit to get your form downz or otherwise you'll be ages doing easy stuff that doesn't cause adaptions when you could have been making gains.
The program is a touch dodgy. But is good for the fundamentals. Just make sure you use the antagist movement too to prevent imbalances.
Well noted @ThomasWright1997 many thanks again.
As you are female and if you have never weighlifted before, the bar may be too heavy so you may need to start with dumbells, or lighter fixed weight barbells. Too light is better than too heavy at the beginning to get your form sorted.
Male or female, SL5x5 is barbell work, getting familiar with the barbell is an essential task. Even if it takes you weeks with the 45lb bar, it works to just do it by the program, substituting and doing your own thing when you're trying to learn how to do it without having a beginning knowledge base is like trying to be a chemist without knowing the table of elements.
. . .or you could just substitute with a lighter barbell. At any rate, telling someone to go heavier than the bar (especially a woman who is inexperienced with lifting) is irresponsible.
Agreed, but then reason he says that it because everybody should be able to do stuff with 20kg.
If you are overweight (no offence intended) if is hardly surprising if you struggle with the bar, you are moving more weight than it is.
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Just saying, SL5x5 is rubbish if you want to lose weight, as your gains will stop as soon as you become efficient at moving the weight, thus you will have no strength gains (or very little) due to being at maintaince cals or a deficit.
Just my tuppence.0 -
ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Deadlifts with a heavy weight frighten the heck out of me , I ve been advised not to do them suffer from bad back, can potentially injure it more, I saw a young girl today do her back in deadlifting heavy, , she was in so much pain, once you've fuffed up yr back that's it end of strength training, maybe use a belt or something, I'm in my late 40's too,
Here's the problem. Dead lifting HEAVY is fine. But 5 reps is not heavy, that will fatigue you and so is dangerous. Above, I have posted a short guide to how you should do 5x5. If you are going to do squats and DL s the same day make sure you squat first and please do them 3+ hours apart.
This is partly where SL is stupid. Arguable the Deadlift is the most easy to break form on and most likely therefore to cause injury. Thus, you should be able to practice it more.
You squat 3x per week to get form down, why not DL for one session so they get equal practice?
Replace one days squats with HEAVY (not 5 reps, more like 1,2 or 3 reps) deads for a few sets (5x3 works well)
And add China to counter balance OHPs
blanket statements ftw0 -
ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Just saying, SL5x5 is rubbish if you want to lose weight, as your gains will stop as soon as you become efficient at moving the weight, thus you will have no strength gains (or very little) due to being at maintaince cals or a deficit.
Just my tuppence.
Do you even lift?0 -
ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Just saying, SL5x5 is rubbish if you want to lose weight, as your gains will stop as soon as you become efficient at moving the weight, thus you will have no strength gains (or very little) due to being at maintaince cals or a deficit.
Just my tuppence.
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eatgoodeat wrote: »ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Also, don't start with just the bar if you can do more, use around 80% of your 5rm, despite what mehdi says. You should only donit to get your form downz or otherwise you'll be ages doing easy stuff that doesn't cause adaptions when you could have been making gains.
The program is a touch dodgy. But is good for the fundamentals. Just make sure you use the antagist movement too to prevent imbalances.
Well noted @ThomasWright1997 many thanks again.
As you are female and if you have never weighlifted before, the bar may be too heavy so you may need to start with dumbells, or lighter fixed weight barbells. Too light is better than too heavy at the beginning to get your form sorted.
Male or female, SL5x5 is barbell work, getting familiar with the barbell is an essential task. Even if it takes you weeks with the 45lb bar, it works to just do it by the program, substituting and doing your own thing when you're trying to learn how to do it without having a beginning knowledge base is like trying to be a chemist without knowing the table of elements.
I get what you are saying about not doing your own thing, lighter barbells would definitely be preferable to anything else. If I had had to start OHP with a 45lb bar, I would probably have given up due to an inability to push it at all. Using dumbells to make a similar movement would allow you to progress up to the bar.0 -
Not necessarily.ThomasWright1997 wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »eatgoodeat wrote: »ThomasWright1997 wrote: »Also, don't start with just the bar if you can do more, use around 80% of your 5rm, despite what mehdi says. You should only donit to get your form downz or otherwise you'll be ages doing easy stuff that doesn't cause adaptions when you could have been making gains.
The program is a touch dodgy. But is good for the fundamentals. Just make sure you use the antagist movement too to prevent imbalances.
Well noted @ThomasWright1997 many thanks again.
As you are female and if you have never weighlifted before, the bar may be too heavy so you may need to start with dumbells, or lighter fixed weight barbells. Too light is better than too heavy at the beginning to get your form sorted.
Male or female, SL5x5 is barbell work, getting familiar with the barbell is an essential task. Even if it takes you weeks with the 45lb bar, it works to just do it by the program, substituting and doing your own thing when you're trying to learn how to do it without having a beginning knowledge base is like trying to be a chemist without knowing the table of elements.
. . .or you could just substitute with a lighter barbell. At any rate, telling someone to go heavier than the bar (especially a woman who is inexperienced with lifting) is irresponsible.
Agreed, but then reason he says that it because everybody should be able to do stuff with 20kg.
If you are overweight (no offence intended) if is hardly surprising if you struggle with the bar, you are moving more weight than it is.
I'm a small 128lb female and i couldn't lift 20kg at first, to save my life! Lol
The 45lb bar was far too heavy for me.
But i'm sure my Sister (who is about 100lbs heavier than me), could
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I would ignore the amendments on this thread and just do the stronglifts programme as set ...it is widely respected as a good, solid beginners programme...listening to an 18 year old wannabe power lifter over an established programme is rather daft IMO
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With all your discussion now I'm a bit confused, I got a set of adjustable dumbbells (not the plastic ones) I was planning to start with that, is it ok or just waist of time??? Any ideas...0
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