Whey vs. Casein

sjohnson__1

I'm interested to hear what experience you all have with casein vs. whey products on the market. I understand that whey is a byproduct and casein is not, however, is it really worth it? All I've read is that whey is anabolic and casein is anti-catabolic and thus, great just before bed. But why? Is it worth it? I eat plenty of dairy products as it is but I'm about to re-up my protein supply and wondering if I should go with a generic casein, casein hydrolysates, or just 100% Whey. Thanks!

galgenstrick

I only buy whey because of its high leucine content. Whey has been shown to spike amino acid levels in the blood shortly after consuming. egg and casein are slower, but steadily supply amino acids, so lots of people say it's good to take before bed. Lots of dairy is high in casein. So if you just eat some cottage cheese or eggs / egg whites before bed you'll be getting that slower digesting protein. Honestly, I think it's a second order effect, I think there was a study or two on it though, I'll try to find them.

slideaway1

I've never tried Casein mate, but like you said people usually take it of a night before bed. I've heard some people swear by it and others say that just normal Whey is more than adequate. I think Casein slowly absorbs over six hours keeping your protein levels maintained to prevent going catabolic. Whey is much faster absorbing so mre useful around exercise periods (although timing does not really matter). Other people will have a better idea than me though, but I'll just stick to the Whey.

galgenstrick

Here you go, here's the study I was thinking of, ingestion of casein before bed has been shown to increase amino acids in the blood steadily over night and help with muscle recovery:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22330017/

yarwell

Whey and casein are both milk proteins, separated out usually using membrane technology. Whey provokes a higher insulin response and casein is slower leaving the stomach (which may be two ways of saying the same thing).

sjohnson__1

An article I read this morning stated that a study that compared the lean mass gains of patients showed that the casein group gained lean muscle twice as fast as the whey group. Apparently there are studies out there that suggest casein is, in fact, a better product for muscle building. Ultimately this article is what sparked my questions...

JoRocka

yarwell wrote: »

Whey and casein are both milk proteins, separated out usually using membrane technology. Whey provokes a higher insulin response and casein is slower leaving the stomach (which may be two ways of saying the same thing).

they are just two sides of the milk separation process. Casein is from the curd and whey is from the liquid.

Whey is faster acting- casein is slower- which is why people frequently recommend it before bed.

I have both- this is my first batch of casein- and honestly I don't like it. It doesn't blend as well- it tends to blend "lumpier" and across the board is way sweeter than the equal flavor/brand of whey.

They do the job- I haven't noticed any significant difference between the two quiet honestly.

I didn't poke to hard at references quiet frankly because I got what I needed from several sources and this confirmed it. But I found it helpful.
http://www.nsca.com/education/articles/whey-protein-vs-casein-protein-and-optimal-recovery/

I7IES3L

Casein is slow digesting best taken before bed. Whey fast digesting thus meant to be taken after a workout. You cannot really compare the two as they are for completely different circumstances. It's like comparing what vehicle to buy, the corvette to race (i.e whey protein)or the civic for great mileage going to work. ( i.e casein) two great but vastly different protein sources.

sixxpoint

I7IES3L wrote: »

Casein is slow digesting best taken before bed. Whey fast digesting thus meant to be taken after a workout. You cannot really compare the two as they are for completely different circumstances. It's like comparing what vehicle to buy, the corvette to race (i.e whey protein)or the civic for great mileage going to work. ( i.e casein) two great but vastly different protein sources.

^ This is the 1980 definition of the difference between the two.

The modern definition is that casein is thicker, creamier, better utilized in baking, and slow-absorbing, but not to the extent that you need to take it before bedtime. Your muscles will not go catabolic overnight. Timing it doesn't matter.

Whey is thinner, grainier, can be bought in isolate form for lactose intolerants, and is fast digesting. You don't need to take it immediately post-workout. You are actually digesting all of the protein regardless of the time of day you take it (unless it is spiked with amino acids to artificially boost protein content). Aminos are easy to recognize because they will end in -ine on the ingredient label).

My recommendation would be to correct your diet to get all of your protein from whole foods. If you want to use a protein powder out of convenience, then get a blend. Blends are superior to plain casein and plain whey in a variety of ways.

And no to your analogy. Completely no to that, lol.

JoRocka

I7IES3L wrote: »

Casein is slow digesting best taken before bed. Whey fast digesting thus meant to be taken after a workout. You cannot really compare the two as they are for completely different circumstances. It's like comparing what vehicle to buy, the corvette to race (i.e whey protein)or the civic for great mileage going to work. ( i.e casein) two great but vastly different protein sources.

that's a ridiculous notion- corvettes are horrible at cornering- they make terrible race cars.

yellowantphil

sixxpoint wrote: »

The modern definition is that casein is thicker, creamier, better utilized in baking, and slow-absorbing, but not to the extent that you need to take it before bedtime to prevent muscle atrophy. Your muscles will not go catabolic overnight.

Whey is thinner, grainier, can be bought in isolate form for lactose intolerants, and fast digesting, but you are actually digesting all of the protein regardless of the time of day you take it (unless it is spiked with amino acids to artificially boost protein content). Aminos are easy to recognize because they will end in -ine on the ingredient label).

(Bolded a couple words.) I've always thought that whey protein seems creamier. Casein seems a little chalky. Maybe it's just the brand I bought. Judging only by texture, I like whey protein better. I realize that casein has its uses though—I just don't like it as much.

JoRocka

yellowantphil wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

The modern definition is that casein is thicker, creamier, better utilized in baking, and slow-absorbing, but not to the extent that you need to take it before bedtime to prevent muscle atrophy. Your muscles will not go catabolic overnight.

Whey is thinner, grainier, can be bought in isolate form for lactose intolerants, and fast digesting, but you are actually digesting all of the protein regardless of the time of day you take it (unless it is spiked with amino acids to artificially boost protein content). Aminos are easy to recognize because they will end in -ine on the ingredient label).

(Bolded a couple words.) I've always thought that whey protein seems creamier. Casein seems a little chalky. Maybe it's just the brand I bought. Judging only by texture, I like whey protein better. I realize that casein has its uses though—I just don't like it as much.

that's been my experience as well- I pretty much exclusively use gold standard- and i've been using whey for years- I can't get my casein to blend out well in my yogurt- it's like... eating sawdust. Makes me super sad.

sixxpoint

yellowantphil wrote: »

sixxpoint wrote: »

The modern definition is that casein is thicker, creamier, better utilized in baking, and slow-absorbing, but not to the extent that you need to take it before bedtime to prevent muscle atrophy. Your muscles will not go catabolic overnight.

Whey is thinner, grainier, can be bought in isolate form for lactose intolerants, and fast digesting, but you are actually digesting all of the protein regardless of the time of day you take it (unless it is spiked with amino acids to artificially boost protein content). Aminos are easy to recognize because they will end in -ine on the ingredient label).

(Bolded a couple words.) I've always thought that whey protein seems creamier. Casein seems a little chalky. Maybe it's just the brand I bought. Judging only by texture, I like whey protein better. I realize that casein has its uses though—I just don't like it as much.

I'm not talking about the texture of the product right out of the tub, in it's dry form.

When blended, whey, like Cellucor or ON makes a thinner shake. You can sense the gritty granules on your tongue. The texture of whey shakes is quite unpleasant for me, that's why I buy blends that include both whey and casein. Blends are the best of both worlds. Pure casein by itself is very thick and creamy. Gastrointestinal distress is usually greater, but the taste is phenomenal.

yopeeps025

https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/whey-vs-casein-the-real-story

sjohnson__1

yopeeps025 wrote: »

https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/whey-vs-casein-the-real-story

T Nation is an awful source, just FYI. They follow an agenda to sell certain products. It's obvious. The article did catch my eye, but I was skeptical and thus this forum... I also asked Layne Norton via twitter. His response: "Whey>Casein"

https://twitter.com/BioLayne/status/628606583052877824

For me, that's all I needed. He went on to state that scientific research supports his statement. I respect him enough to take his word - Not sweating it, really. Just wanted to know if it was worth the investment.