Overhead Press, What is a full rep?!

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  • GetSoda
    GetSoda Posts: 1,267 Member
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    So much fail...

    From shoulders to above your head is a full over head press. Anything else is a partial. BUT if you are injured you may not be able to do a full rep.

    Start light and build up. Don't go crazy if it's a new exercise.

    This is like saying squatting to 1/3 of the range of the squat is a full rep because the guy can't go lower. Well no. That is not a full rep. It may be your full rep because you can't go lower as you don't stretch at all.

    I will stress again you must WARM UP AND STRETCH BEFORE DOING WEIGHTS. You can't just go in cold and lift. You need to prepare your body. There is no real reason to be injured by this exercise if you have prepared yourself properly.

    Koing

    to clarify: You should not do any static stretching before lifting. That just invites injury.
    Some active mobility work is good though. Like shoulder circles.
  • JNick77
    JNick77 Posts: 3,783 Member
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    If there's nothing preventing you from doing a full range of motion then you should do it. I know you're doing 5/3/1 and I'm pretty sure Wendler talks form in his book. I actually have issues with my right shoulder from baseball and an old injury and OHP'ing with a full range of motion does nothing to cause any problems, I actually feel better to be honest.

    ^This.

    My right shoulder is messed up, but I do OHP with full range and it's been a great shoulder rehab for me. Agree also with a previous poster about packing the shoulder and activating the lats - this has worked for me all the way......

    Yes, engaging the lats is a good thing to do. Wendler actually talks about using your lats as a shelf for stabilizing the weight.
  • davideickelmann
    davideickelmann Posts: 87 Member
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    For dumbbell and barbell OHP I bring the DB/Bar down to my chin. The magic point on an OHP is how low can you go before the muscle under tension ceases to be the delts. I use a slightly wider than shoulder width grip, so your experience may vary.
  • h9dlb
    h9dlb Posts: 243 Member
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    OP I have also heard several times not to bring the weight too low as you can seriously injure your shoulders (rotator cuff). Like all exercises involving heavy lifting, form is the key. I agree the "proper" way only feels like half a rep but its better than not being able to do any reps at all due to injury.

    That said, bringing the elbow down to parallel with the shoulder is probably a better exercise anyway as it keeps the upper chest under strain throughout the whole range of movement.
  • Wooly_I_am
    Wooly_I_am Posts: 109
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    On a normal press whether it be barbell or dumbbell I'll come to parallel. The only press you could do beyond parallel would be the Arnold press, but then you are rotating your wrists also. Give that one a try with some light weight. Youtube Arnold press and check it out OP.
  • BarackMeLikeAHurricane
    BarackMeLikeAHurricane Posts: 3,400 Member
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    Put your shoulder blades in your back pocket like when you dead lift, chest out, hands just wider than shoulder grip, extend arms up until elbow are locked out, lower down until bar touches the top of your chest.
  • holothuroidea
    holothuroidea Posts: 772 Member
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    OP I have also heard several times not to bring the weight too low as you can seriously injure your shoulders (rotator cuff). Like all exercises involving heavy lifting, form is the key. I agree the "proper" way only feels like half a rep but its better than not being able to do any reps at all due to injury.

    That said, bringing the elbow down to parallel with the shoulder is probably a better exercise anyway as it keeps the upper chest under strain throughout the whole range of movement.

    Sorry, I don't get this. Since when is the only point of an overhead press to just work the chest muscles? It's a compound movement that involves a lot of muscles all at once, why would focusing on just one of those muscles make the movement more effective?

    The first couple inches of the movement engages different muscles than the other parts, and yeah those muscles are smaller and not able to lift as much weight as the ones that support the rest of the movement. That's why you don't lift as much on a strict press.

    If you want to put more of a load on those other muscles, then put more weight on and do a push press.
  • GiGiBeans
    GiGiBeans Posts: 1,062 Member
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    In shoulder rehab that's how I had to do an OHP except with dumbbells because my right side is weaker. I alternate them with Arnold Presses since they aggravate my shoulder less. No matter what range of motion you go with, make sure you work all sides of your shoulder so as not cause an imbalance.
  • infamousdrew76
    infamousdrew76 Posts: 176 Member
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    If there is nothing wrong with your shoulders, what are you protecting? I go lower than that, because my shoulders allow me to, and I think I'm better off for it!

    If someone has some good evidence why to stop so (IMO) premature, please share!
  • edwardgaweda
    edwardgaweda Posts: 40
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    OP I have also heard several times not to bring the weight too low as you can seriously injure your shoulders (rotator cuff). Like all exercises involving heavy lifting, form is the key. I agree the "proper" way only feels like half a rep but its better than not being able to do any reps at all due to injury.

    That said, bringing the elbow down to parallel with the shoulder is probably a better exercise anyway as it keeps the upper chest under strain throughout the whole range of movement.

    If I stopped the eccentric portion of the lift when my elbow was parallel with my shoulder, the barbell would still be above my head. Seriously people... cut the ****. It doesn't matter what your sisters brothers friends ripped uncle does for his lifting... a partial rep is a partial rep. Avoiding locking out is one thing. Moving a bar 2-6" and claiming its a rep is a whole different species of stupid.
  • holothuroidea
    holothuroidea Posts: 772 Member
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    OP I have also heard several times not to bring the weight too low as you can seriously injure your shoulders (rotator cuff). Like all exercises involving heavy lifting, form is the key. I agree the "proper" way only feels like half a rep but its better than not being able to do any reps at all due to injury.

    That said, bringing the elbow down to parallel with the shoulder is probably a better exercise anyway as it keeps the upper chest under strain throughout the whole range of movement.

    If I stopped the eccentric portion of the lift when my elbow was parallel with my shoulder, the barbell would still be above my head. Seriously people... cut the ****. It doesn't matter what your sisters brothers friends ripped uncle does for his lifting... a partial rep is a partial rep. Avoiding locking out is one thing. Moving a bar 2-6" and claiming its a rep is a whole different species of stupid.

    IKR!?

    If you're lifting so much weight in a press that you feel like you need to protect your shoulders from injury from merely preforming the lift properly, then you need to go down in weight or preform a different lift.

    If you're healthy and doing a lift at an appropriate weight for you, good form should be enough to protect you from injury.
  • davideickelmann
    davideickelmann Posts: 87 Member
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    good form should be enough to protect you from injury.

    OP's question, however, is "what is good form". I've yet to see anyone mention a benefit to going down to your chest. It sounds like a good way to A) add strain and B) take tension off the shoulder, defeating the point of the exercise. At 6'2, bringing the bar to my chin and extending to just shy of a lock (again, time under tension) gets me a 2 foot (60 cm) ROM.
  • darrensurrey
    darrensurrey Posts: 3,942 Member
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    Not OHP but relevant: http://youtu.be/rKoP6-4rXao
    NSFW! (Probably uses the F word and similar.)
  • holothuroidea
    holothuroidea Posts: 772 Member
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    good form should be enough to protect you from injury.

    OP's question, however, is "what is good form". I've yet to see anyone mention a benefit to going down to your chest. It sounds like a good way to A) add strain and B) take tension off the shoulder, defeating the point of the exercise. At 6'2, bringing the bar to my chin and extending to just shy of a lock (again, time under tension) gets me a 2 foot (60 cm) ROM.

    I've mentioned the benefit multiple times now. Good form on a strict press means going all the way down to your clavicle because otherwise you skip out on working entire muscles (anterior deltoids, rotator cuff muscles).

    It really doesn't matter how long your arms are. Your anterior deltoids only work for about 90 degrees of abduction. If your upper arms are only going parallel to the floor, you are not engaging them at all. That's fine if you're only interested in working your trapezius/serratus and triceps, but there are other movements for those muscles that are safer for your shoulders at higher weights.
  • 0OneTwo3
    0OneTwo3 Posts: 149 Member
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    not being able to complete a rep is a clear sign of shoulder mobility issues. i understand that not everybody can do behind the neck presses and such, but doing a regular shoulder press is something everyone should be able to do without limitations.

    if you have problems with mobility then you should work on it until you can perform the exercise correctly instead of ignoring the issue and doing half reps. that will only make things worse. you can however stop just right before lockout so you don't have your elbows at a negative angle.

    your friend is not avoiding shoulder issues but causing them.
  • ppirkle
    ppirkle Posts: 2
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    Thank you. Some common sense in this discussion. Correct form is always the key. Keeping tension on the muscle group is more effective and also a lot more difficult. That is why many people use lighter weights for this excercise. Dropping my elbows below parallel and then locking out removes the tension from the muscle group and makes it easier on the individual. Try lowering the weight, lower arms to parallel, lift back to just before lock out, and complete. I guarantee you those weights will start feeling heavier than when you started.

    I also noticed quicker results once I started doing the reps this way.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
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    not being able to complete a rep is a clear sign of shoulder mobility issues. i understand that not everybody can do behind the neck presses and such, but doing a regular shoulder press is something everyone should be able to do without limitations.

    if you have problems with mobility then you should work on it until you can perform the exercise correctly instead of ignoring the issue and doing half reps. that will only make things worse. you can however stop just right before lockout so you don't have your elbows at a negative angle.

    your friend is not avoiding shoulder issues but causing them.

    ^This

    You can work on great ROM and getting better technique.

    I wonder if these people who can't do a full rep aren't using too great a load? Perhaps they should dial it back a bit on the kg's and explore the full ROM with good form and they'll discover better shoulder health as a benefit? Then they can get into something a bit heavier......
  • holothuroidea
    holothuroidea Posts: 772 Member
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    Thank you. Some common sense in this discussion. Correct form is always the key. Keeping tension on the muscle group is more effective and also a lot more difficult. That is why many people use lighter weights for this excercise. Dropping my elbows below parallel and then locking out removes the tension from the muscle group and makes it easier on the individual. Try lowering the weight, lower arms to parallel, lift back to just before lock out, and complete. I guarantee you those weights will start feeling heavier than when you started.

    I also noticed quicker results once I started doing the reps this way.

    Fine, but at this point you've invented a completely different exercise.

    A strict overhead press is meant to be a compound movement to strengthen supporting muscles (particularly the anterior deltoids and rotator cuff) for more complex and heavier moves (like jerks). You go to lockout, not because it's going to make your triceps bigger, but because it's proper technique for engaging the stabilizing muscles and realigning yourself for proper form in the eccentric phase.

    All of you time under tension tricep isolation people might as well just go on with tricep extensions with heavier weights to save your shoulders. Really, at that point I don't understand why you're doing an overhead press at all.
  • FrnkLft
    FrnkLft Posts: 1,821 Member
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    Yeah Wendler suggests FOM to shoulders in his book, though saw a clip of him lifting yesterday and hes going to chin... Maybe just a heavy lift... I don't fkin know.
  • 0OneTwo3
    0OneTwo3 Posts: 149 Member
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    reading the other replies i hope you people don't believe that it is consistant tension that will improve performance. yes, it is a good way to develop large and round deltoids to walk around the beach with and brag about. it's also not about how much weight you can re-rack.
    for functional strength you want to have good body mechanics, good neuromuscular connections, good joint integrity and then you can utilize your prime movers to the full extend. all of this requires full ROM.

    OP is doing 5/3/1 which leads me to believe he is more worried about his athletic performance than his looks and even if he isn't there is no need do sacrifice function.

    edit:
    Yeah Wendler suggests FOM to shoulders in his book, though saw a clip of him lifting yesterday and hes going to chin... Maybe just a heavy lift... I don't fkin know.

    bad angle, but notice how he lowers the weight down to his collar bone at the start of each rep even though he rests it at just below his chin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxXWLI5AjLY

    i'm not 100% sure this is wendler btw.

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