So what the heck is clean eating, anyway?

lemurcat12

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rockmama72 wrote: »

Kalikel wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Kalikel wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Kalikel wrote: »

"I eat cheeseburgers every week!"

This is kind of an aside, but since I've noticed you using the burger example quite often: I never eat cheeseburgers, because I do not like cheese on burgers. However, for a while I was eating a burger (or a ground beef patty, no bun, since I only eat one starch course with dinner and prefer potatoes, sweet potatoes, and corn, among other things, to bread). It was ground beef I got from the farm I get most of my meat from. Whether I had the bun or potatoes I had vegetables with it (usually lots of veggies, and a couple of different kinds at least), and I like pickles, onions, and mustard on it. (I dislike mayo and ketchup, although I don't think either is bad for those who like them.)

When people proclaim "burgers" as an example of something that cannot fit in a healthy diet I am puzzled--my burger meals have no more calories than other meals and are reasonably similar in micronutrient profile. So if someone said "burgers" are something you can't eat when dieting, I might have said "why not? I eat them a lot?" (I don't think I actually did, but it's not impossible.)

I know I've said I eat out 1-2 times a week, because I do. It's part of my lifestyle and something I enjoy. (For reasons related to the fact I tend to cook at home a lot and don't like packaged snacks and don't go to dinner at chain restaurants with the calories posted--I'm into food.) I also think the foods I eat out are generally healthy; they just have more calories than cooking at home would, so I had to learn to deal with that.

You have indicated before that you think it's shocking that people consider pizza potentially healthy, but think about a homemade pizza (or one from an Italian restaurant that uses good quality ingredients). Mine have lean protein (when possible) and lots of vegetables and olive oil, a thin crust, a moderate amount of cheese. If I make them at home they have a whole wheat crust. And sure, on rare (very rare) occasions I might splurge on a slice or two of Chicago style from a favorite place, but that's not the only kind of pizza available (and I would never waste calories on Dominos, personally, but again that's just personal taste).

But in any case, I don't think I do crow about how much high cal food I eat (since I don't), and my perception is that most people who say they fit in fast food or ice cream or whatever also say "everyone should eat a balanced, mostly nutrient-dense diet." Yet over and over again this advice has been responded to "so it would be fine to eat only Twinkies" or "only McD's" -- which is an odd thing to think IMO, since who would ever, ever want to?

You are either misunderstanding some things I've said or outright lying. Either way, you're just wrong.

Also, I specifically stated that I was not talking about you.

I'm not lying. Nor did I think you were talking about me, although I pointed to some examples of what I may have said as context for when people might bring these things up. I'm also not saying that YOU are someone who has suggested that moderates in reality eat only Twinkies. (I don't think my post suggests that you did.)

Now, I'm sure I may be misunderstanding. Am I wrong in remembering that you have frequently used eating a burger as an example of an unhealthy meal or seemed to disagree (most recently in the "what's the healthiest food thread") when people suggested that pizza can be an example of a healthy food?

That thread was asking for THE single most healthy food. Not examples of what foods could be considered healthy.

I was curious if a specific posted actually believed that pizza was the single most healthy combination of food they could think of.

I don't care if most people think that pizza is the most food a person could possibly eat, I was just kind of shocked that THAT person would think pizza was THE healthiest food of all possible food combinations. I still think it may have been some kind of joke.

Furthermore, I was not about to argue that he shouldn't think it. I just wanted to know if he was serious or making some kind of joke.

I was the one who said "Pizza has all the macros" in that thread. Yes, I was being a bit jokey and lighthearted. I adore pizza, and it has a decent balance of macros if you order/make it right. I have spent YEARS perfecting a homemade pizza dough. I pile it with vegetables and a little fresh mozzarella--and a couple of slices for about 600 calories? That's a perfect food to me, and I would choose it as my desert island food if I could take a pizza oven with me. Since it was a fun thread, I shared. No need to be "shocked," @Kalikel.

Yep, that's pretty similar to what I was trying to say.

brendadale1

RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »

Clean eating to me means I didn't drop it on the floor!

hahhahahah love it

brendadale1

Michael190lbs wrote: »

To me its rinsing my fruits and veggies three times.

hahah I love good clean humor hahahah

earlnabby

I hate the term "processed foods" since it really doesn't say much since the majority of our food has been processed somehow. I prefer to say I eat very few "convenience foods". I categorize these as things I can usually make myself like packaged dinners, instant oatmeal, packaged cakes and cookies, etc. I eat store bought bread instead of making my own because I cannot get the same macros in my homemade as I can get in store bought. I also prefer the texture of store bought Greek yogurt over my homemade. I do make my own lunch meat by cooking up a turkey breast or beef roast and slicing it.

Ultimately, each person needs to decide what is the best balance of whole or pre-made foods for them. Most of us do not have the time or the land to grow and eat all our own foods, We need to rely on farmers, manufacturers, and merchants to provide us with what we eat. Where you choose to compromise is totally individual and each of us has to decide for ourselves. The whole "clean eating" idea is a bunch of nothing.

darkangel45422

While I agree that some of the specifics will vary from person to person, I think that most if not all clean eaters would agree that eating clean means eating real food - unprocessed, natural ingredients, nutrient dense, as whole or natural as possible, etc. This generally means meat, vegetables and fruits, nuts and seeds, dairy, grains, etc. Basically all things you can find in nature and could have made hundreds of years ago (aka don't require more than simple processing, like grinding grains into flour or cooking meat over heat). I don't have an issue with using the term processed for this situation because I feel like 99% of the population knows what is meant when someone talks about processed food - they know you're taking Twinkies, cereal made with additives, food colouring and other chemicals from a lab, and frozen dinners with similar lab chemicals for preservatives, etc. vs. non-processed food which is stuff like vegetables, bread made from little more than yeast, flour, water and salt, etc. I don't know anyone who considers stuff like canned tomatoes or canned salmon to be processed or unclean, unless it's got things in there other than tomatoes and salmon, or unless they worry about things like BPA in the canning, etc. I know I personally would consider canned tomatoes where the only ingredient is tomatoes to be a clean food (other ingredients like natural herbs and spices would be fine too). Similarly, I would consider cheese a clean food, especially if it's not made with a bunch of additives, etc. but is made with just the basics required for cheese. Obviously some foods can be either processed or unprocessed even when bought at a store - you could have bread that I'd consider unprocessed and therefore clean, but at the same time some bread would be processed and therefore I'd consider it not to be a clean food.

The areas where people differ are more about the specifics - is dairy/grain/meat/animal products good or bad for humans to consume, organic vs. raw vs. conventional vs. local, etc. I think people will differ on the question of the specifics, but not about the eating unprocessed real whole foods. They may differ in whether they think they need to eat that way 100% of the time in order to qualify as clean or if it's just kind of the ideal goal and each person will inevitably have some exceptions.

I don't see what's so unhelpful or not great about the term clean eating. To me it's basically the same as saying you eat real food, or whole food, etc. Healthy isn't quite the same, because what each person defines as healthy is VASTLY different - again, one person might say eating any meat at all isn't healthy and therefore meat isn't a healthy food while another will say meat is perfectly healthy, and another will say meat is only healthy if it's local, grass-fed and organic. Then again other people talk about healthy as meaning little more than are you eating your proper calories, and therefore you could eat nothing but Twinkies so long as you eat under your calorie goal. I think most of course are hyperbolizing when they use that particular example, but many people consider it perfectly healthy to eat nothing but what I would consider unhealthy food so long as it fits into their calorie goals (like eating fast food for all three meals of a day, and not the reasonably healthy salads, but French fries and milkshakes and Big Macs kind of fast food).

It's kind of like healthy is the big giant umbrella term for all the different ways people try to eat that they think will help them, and clean is a small umbrella under the healthy umbrella that refers to a particular type of healthy eating, which itself has lots of smaller subsets.

lemurcat12

So when you say "processed" you don't really mean "processed" but we are supposed to understand.

Ah.

I don't get why it's so hard to just be more precise. If you want to say "I mostly eat whole foods" or "I think the ideal is to cook myself from whole foods," that's a LOT more clear and doesn't get into this question about whether canned tomatoes are clean or not (I've seen it claimed they are not) or smoked salmon or plain yogurt, etc. In that it's not actually clearer, there has to be some other reason for the usage and it seems to be that people get off on insulting others who don't share their view of the proper way to eat (not clean) or want to create some kind of divisive us and them, even though (as has been noted) most people who care about eating healthy eat pretty similarly (except that some are LCHF and some are vegan etc., of course, but none of that has to do with clean vs. not).

The clean eater thing kind of reminds me of when someone asks me if I'm "saved." My friends mock me because I always want to say "well, what do you mean by 'saved'" and then discuss the various theological meanings of the passage and how some would fit and some are ones I do not accept, blah, blah.

If someone asked me if I were a "clean eater" I'd say "no," but really I do eat mostly whole foods and don't eat convenience foods and so on, not because I think this would make me unhealthy, but as a matter of personal preference. I just don't understand how anyone who eats something that is, in fact, processed (which everyone does) can with a straight face and without feeling like a huge liar or hypocrite claim to not eat processed foods.

And no, I've never seen anyone argue that eating healthy requires nothing more than calories not being too high. There's no more diversity as to what "eating healthy" is than there is within the category of "clean eaters."

Ponkeen

Thanks for the responses, everybody! I wasn't expecting such an avalanche of feedback, but it's better than none, that's for sure.
I'm going to continue with what I was doing and not worry about it anymore; that seems to be the reasonable thing to do.

earlnabby

Ponkeen wrote: »

Thanks for the responses, everybody! I wasn't expecting such an avalanche of feedback, but it's better than none, that's for sure.
I'm going to continue with what I was doing and not worry about it anymore; that seems to be the reasonable thing to do.

What you are doing is what most of us are doing. It is just that many don't see the need to label it.

stevencloser

darkangel45422 wrote: »

While I agree that some of the specifics will vary from person to person, I think that most if not all clean eaters would agree that eating clean means eating real food - unprocessed, natural ingredients, nutrient dense, as whole or natural as possible, etc. This generally means meat, vegetables and fruits, nuts and seeds, dairy, grains, etc. Basically all things you can find in nature and could have made hundreds of years ago (aka don't require more than simple processing, like grinding grains into flour or cooking meat over heat). I don't have an issue with using the term processed for this situation because I feel like 99% of the population knows what is meant when someone talks about processed food - they know you're taking Twinkies, cereal made with additives, food colouring and other chemicals from a lab, and frozen dinners with similar lab chemicals for preservatives, etc. vs. non-processed food which is stuff like vegetables, bread made from little more than yeast, flour, water and salt, etc. I don't know anyone who considers stuff like canned tomatoes or canned salmon to be processed or unclean, unless it's got things in there other than tomatoes and salmon, or unless they worry about things like BPA in the canning, etc. I know I personally would consider canned tomatoes where the only ingredient is tomatoes to be a clean food (other ingredients like natural herbs and spices would be fine too). Similarly, I would consider cheese a clean food, especially if it's not made with a bunch of additives, etc. but is made with just the basics required for cheese. Obviously some foods can be either processed or unprocessed even when bought at a store - you could have bread that I'd consider unprocessed and therefore clean, but at the same time some bread would be processed and therefore I'd consider it not to be a clean food.

The areas where people differ are more about the specifics - is dairy/grain/meat/animal products good or bad for humans to consume, organic vs. raw vs. conventional vs. local, etc. I think people will differ on the question of the specifics, but not about the eating unprocessed real whole foods. They may differ in whether they think they need to eat that way 100% of the time in order to qualify as clean or if it's just kind of the ideal goal and each person will inevitably have some exceptions.

I don't see what's so unhelpful or not great about the term clean eating. To me it's basically the same as saying you eat real food, or whole food, etc. Healthy isn't quite the same, because what each person defines as healthy is VASTLY different - again, one person might say eating any meat at all isn't healthy and therefore meat isn't a healthy food while another will say meat is perfectly healthy, and another will say meat is only healthy if it's local, grass-fed and organic. Then again other people talk about healthy as meaning little more than are you eating your proper calories, and therefore you could eat nothing but Twinkies so long as you eat under your calorie goal. I think most of course are hyperbolizing when they use that particular example, but many people consider it perfectly healthy to eat nothing but what I would consider unhealthy food so long as it fits into their calorie goals (like eating fast food for all three meals of a day, and not the reasonably healthy salads, but French fries and milkshakes and Big Macs kind of fast food).

It's kind of like healthy is the big giant umbrella term for all the different ways people try to eat that they think will help them, and clean is a small umbrella under the healthy umbrella that refers to a particular type of healthy eating, which itself has lots of smaller subsets.

Twinkies are nothing but a sponge cake filled with cream. Sponge cake has been around since the 1600's wikipedia tells me.

patrikc333

to me, it's enjoying food, maintain my weight, and having a balanced diet hitting my macros

to not consider pizza, ice creams, cakes, burger etc cheat meals, or base my entire diet on salads and vegetables, or demonizing fats/carbs/sugar

to not need a cheating day, because it's a non sense to me

different people will have different needs, eg a body builder will know what is best between brown or white rice for him (just a random example) - for my needs, i'm happy all the above points are met

snickerscharlie

To me it's washing my hands before I eat.