Can you gain muscle eating at a deficit?

jtate0212

I have seen many posters stating that it is impossible to gain muscle eating at a deficit. Scientifically, this makes sense to me. But then I have also seen some posts stating it is possible to have small muscle gains if you have a high body fat percentage and are new to working out. I'm new to this whole fitness/ weightloss journey, so am just looking for some correct information. Plus, I swear my muscles feel a tiny bit bigger and harder underneath my fat layer, lol. I know I've seen seen a lot of scientific types and experienced peeps on here. What say you?

gainesma

jtate0212 wrote: »

I have seen many posters stating that it is impossible to gain muscle eating at a deficit. Scientifically, this makes sense to me. But then I have also seen some posts stating it is possible to have small muscle gains if you have a high body fat percentage and are new to working out. I'm new to this whole fitness/ weightloss journey, so am just looking for some correct information. Plus, I swear my muscles feel a tiny bit bigger and harder underneath my fat layer, lol. I know I've seen seen a lot of scientific types and experienced peeps on here. What say you?

■■■yes. Calories don't build muscle. PROTEIN BUILDS MUSCLE & EXERCISE WITH ADEQUATE PROTEIN & Fats. So if you're eating enough protein to build muscle, you will burn through body fat first always. Muscle is not easily burned until you have exhausted your fat stores.

jemhh

It is possible in certain situations--overfat beginners and returning lifters.

Your muscles can feel firmer due to water retention, which helps with muscle repair. I believe that @ninerbuff has mentioned muscles getting firmer too but I don't really know the science on that.

SLLRunner

gainesma wrote: »

jtate0212 wrote: »

I have seen many posters stating that it is impossible to gain muscle eating at a deficit. Scientifically, this makes sense to me. But then I have also seen some posts stating it is possible to have small muscle gains if you have a high body fat percentage and are new to working out. I'm new to this whole fitness/ weightloss journey, so am just looking for some correct information. Plus, I swear my muscles feel a tiny bit bigger and harder underneath my fat layer, lol. I know I've seen seen a lot of scientific types and experienced peeps on here. What say you?

■■■yes. Calories don't build muscle. PROTEIN BUILDS MUSCLE & EXERCISE WITH ADEQUATE PROTEIN & Fats. So if you're eating enough protein to build muscle, you will burn through body fat first always. Muscle is not easily burned until you have exhausted your fat stores.

You have left out weight lifting/strength training, which is the tool to build muscles. Heavy weight lifting and strength training. You don't just gain muscle from eating a lot of protein and fat.

SueInAz

SLLRunner wrote: »

gainesma wrote: »

jtate0212 wrote: »

I have seen many posters stating that it is impossible to gain muscle eating at a deficit. Scientifically, this makes sense to me. But then I have also seen some posts stating it is possible to have small muscle gains if you have a high body fat percentage and are new to working out. I'm new to this whole fitness/ weightloss journey, so am just looking for some correct information. Plus, I swear my muscles feel a tiny bit bigger and harder underneath my fat layer, lol. I know I've seen seen a lot of scientific types and experienced peeps on here. What say you?

■■■yes. Calories don't build muscle. PROTEIN BUILDS MUSCLE & EXERCISE WITH ADEQUATE PROTEIN & Fats. So if you're eating enough protein to build muscle, you will burn through body fat first always. Muscle is not easily burned until you have exhausted your fat stores.

You have left out weight lifting/strength training, which is the tool to build muscles. Heavy weight lifting and strength training. You don't just gain muscle from eating a lot of protein and fat.

Also, even if most of your calories come from protein, if you are eating at a very large deficit over a period of time your body WILL use some of your lean muscle mass for fuel, especially if you are sedentary.

OP, there are newbie gains and those who are significantly overweight may be able to build muscle while eating at a deficit because they have so much extra energy to offer. But building muscle on a calorie deficit over a long period of time? No.

Merkavar

My understanding is that yes you can its just slower.

But yeah everyone seems to say you can't.

But like others said getting enough protein etc is needed.

jemhh

There's also recomping, which is done while eating close to maintenance and lifting progressively but some people eat very slightly below. (You often see a setup where a person eats 10-20% higher than maintenance on 3 lifting days and then 10-20% on 4 non-lifting days, which puts them slightly under on an average week.) With a recomp you are burning fat and building muscle but the rate of each is slower than if you focused purely on one or the other.

jtate0212

Thanks for your replies! Dang, I have so much to learn. I had no clue fitness and health had so much science to it.I'm really finding it interesting. There is so much mixed information out there, it's hard for a noob to figure out what will work. My little muscle gains (if really there lol) are most def because I am new to working out. When I started researching this stuff out of frustration that diet number 3736261801.1 wasn't working, I found this site. I've just been soaking it all in. I think my muscle mass was sooooo small (from never working out) that I royally screwed up my metabolism.... just my theory, I have no idea if it's accurate or not. So I've been strength training for just over a month, and about three weeks ago started counting calories as well. I want to build muscle, or tone AND lose fat. Everybody saying you can't build muscle at a deficit was freaking me out, lol. I really think I need more muscle to help my metabolism. I am currently hitting 140 gr or protein a day. I hope this is enough to tone/ build muscle....

stevencloser

gainesma wrote: »

jtate0212 wrote: »

I have seen many posters stating that it is impossible to gain muscle eating at a deficit. Scientifically, this makes sense to me. But then I have also seen some posts stating it is possible to have small muscle gains if you have a high body fat percentage and are new to working out. I'm new to this whole fitness/ weightloss journey, so am just looking for some correct information. Plus, I swear my muscles feel a tiny bit bigger and harder underneath my fat layer, lol. I know I've seen seen a lot of scientific types and experienced peeps on here. What say you?

■■■yes. Calories don't build muscle. PROTEIN BUILDS MUSCLE & EXERCISE WITH ADEQUATE PROTEIN & Fats. So if you're eating enough protein to build muscle, you will burn through body fat first always. Muscle is not easily burned until you have exhausted your fat stores.

Unless you're giving your body a reason to not use them for energy, muscle that isn't used by you will get used to make up for the deficit. Muscle atrophy caused by disuse isn't only the extreme cases when someone is bedridden and ends up unable to walk until they do months of rehab, it's also pretty simply getting lower muscle mass over time as you don't use them as much. That is accelerated by a bigger deficit. And calories do build muscle, every action performed by your body needs energy, that includes the storage of energy.
And building muscle at a deficit isn't exactly your body's #1 priority, it increases your deficit and increases your future maintenance calories further, not exactly things your body would want to do when you're already eating less than necessary to keep your bodyweight.

Merkavar

jtate0212 wrote: »

Thanks for your replies! Dang, I have so much to learn. I had no clue fitness and health had so much science to it.I'm really finding it interesting. There is so much mixed information out there, it's hard for a noob to figure out what will work. My little muscle gains (if really there lol) are most def because I am new to working out. When I started researching this stuff out of frustration that diet number 3736261801.1 wasn't working, I found this site. I've just been soaking it all in. I think my muscle mass was sooooo small (from never working out) that I royally screwed up my metabolism.... just my theory, I have no idea if it's accurate or not. So I've been strength training for just over a month, and about three weeks ago started counting calories as well. I want to build muscle, or tone AND lose fat. Everybody saying you can't build muscle at a deficit was freaking me out, lol. I really think I need more muscle to help my metabolism. I am currently hitting 140 gr or protein a day. I hope this is enough to tone/ build muscle....

1g per pound of lbm seems a common goal.

Kimegatron

I'm not actually sure if I have been building my leg muscles with my walks now... At first I thought that I was, because I feel stronger, my legs feel GOOD, like they never have before. But now I'm wondering if it's just my muscles staying the same, but the fat melting off. I have always had very strong legs, so that could be possibru.

SueInAz

jtate0212 wrote: »

Thanks for your replies! Dang, I have so much to learn. I had no clue fitness and health had so much science to it.I'm really finding it interesting. There is so much mixed information out there, it's hard for a noob to figure out what will work. My little muscle gains (if really there lol) are most def because I am new to working out. When I started researching this stuff out of frustration that diet number 3736261801.1 wasn't working, I found this site. I've just been soaking it all in. I think my muscle mass was sooooo small (from never working out) that I royally screwed up my metabolism.... just my theory, I have no idea if it's accurate or not. So I've been strength training for just over a month, and about three weeks ago started counting calories as well. I want to build muscle, or tone AND lose fat. Everybody saying you can't build muscle at a deficit was freaking me out, lol. I really think I need more muscle to help my metabolism. I am currently hitting 140 gr or protein a day. I hope this is enough to tone/ build muscle....

If you've spent a lot of time during your life gaining weight, then crash dieting to drop weight, then gaining it back and crash dieting again... you could very well have lost a fair amount of muscle in the process. Less muscle means a lower metabolism which makes it that much harder to maintain a lower weight or lose weight. The good news is, you've figured out that building muscle is what you need to do. It took me awhile to figure that out for myself; longer than you.

For right now, with 45 pounds or so to lose, focus on eating at a slight calorie deficit and strength training. It's much easier to maintain the muscle you have than to build new muscle and doing those two things together will help you lose fat while retaining your current muscle (and adding a little more in your newbie gains period). When you reach your goal weight, you can spend some time eating extra calories while lifting to build new muscle, then eating at a deficit to drop some fat, and repeat. You might throw some cardio in there for fitness and to give you some extra calories to eat, too.

SLLRunner

SueInAz wrote: »

SLLRunner wrote: »

gainesma wrote: »

jtate0212 wrote: »

I have seen many posters stating that it is impossible to gain muscle eating at a deficit. Scientifically, this makes sense to me. But then I have also seen some posts stating it is possible to have small muscle gains if you have a high body fat percentage and are new to working out. I'm new to this whole fitness/ weightloss journey, so am just looking for some correct information. Plus, I swear my muscles feel a tiny bit bigger and harder underneath my fat layer, lol. I know I've seen seen a lot of scientific types and experienced peeps on here. What say you?

■■■yes. Calories don't build muscle. PROTEIN BUILDS MUSCLE & EXERCISE WITH ADEQUATE PROTEIN & Fats. So if you're eating enough protein to build muscle, you will burn through body fat first always. Muscle is not easily burned until you have exhausted your fat stores.

You have left out weight lifting/strength training, which is the tool to build muscles. Heavy weight lifting and strength training. You don't just gain muscle from eating a lot of protein and fat.

Also, even if most of your calories come from protein, if you are eating at a very large deficit over a period of time your body WILL use some of your lean muscle mass for fuel, especially if you are sedentary.

OP, there are newbie gains and those who are significantly overweight may be able to build muscle while eating at a deficit because they have so much extra energy to offer. But building muscle on a calorie deficit over a long period of time? No.

Yep.

Machka9

Merkavar wrote: »

My understanding is that yes you can its just slower.

But yeah everyone seems to say you can't.

But like others said getting enough protein etc is needed.

+1

I am eating at a deficit, and losing weight ... yet I appear to be putting on muscle. And it's more than just muscle appearing from under the fat layer because I wasn't that heavy to begin with.

Can't explain the science behind it ... just going with observation.

jtate0212

SueInAz wrote: »

jtate0212 wrote: »

Thanks for your replies! Dang, I have so much to learn. I had no clue fitness and health had so much science to it.I'm really finding it interesting. There is so much mixed information out there, it's hard for a noob to figure out what will work. My little muscle gains (if really there lol) are most def because I am new to working out. When I started researching this stuff out of frustration that diet number 3736261801.1 wasn't working, I found this site. I've just been soaking it all in. I think my muscle mass was sooooo small (from never working out) that I royally screwed up my metabolism.... just my theory, I have no idea if it's accurate or not. So I've been strength training for just over a month, and about three weeks ago started counting calories as well. I want to build muscle, or tone AND lose fat. Everybody saying you can't build muscle at a deficit was freaking me out, lol. I really think I need more muscle to help my metabolism. I am currently hitting 140 gr or protein a day. I hope this is enough to tone/ build muscle....

If you've spent a lot of time during your life gaining weight, then crash dieting to drop weight, then gaining it back and crash dieting again... you could very well have lost a fair amount of muscle in the process. Less muscle means a lower metabolism which makes it that much harder to maintain a lower weight or lose weight. The good news is, you've figured out that building muscle is what you need to do. It took me awhile to figure that out for myself; longer than you.

For right now, with 45 pounds or so to lose, focus on eating at a slight calorie deficit and strength training. It's much easier to maintain the muscle you have than to build new muscle and doing those two things together will help you lose fat while retaining your current muscle (and adding a little more in your newbie gains period). When you reach your goal weight, you can spend some time eating extra calories while lifting to build new muscle, then eating at a deficit to drop some fat, and repeat. You might throw some cardio in there for fitness and to give you some extra calories to eat, too.

Crash dieting was what I always did, from my late teens until now. One fad diet after another. Now at 32, two kids later, dieting simply stopped working. No matter what crazy low calorie/ low carb/whatever diet I tried , what pill I tried, my weight stayed the same. I knew I had to change for good this time, get healthy. Now after researching, I realize how much damage this yo-yo dieting crap has done to my metabolism. Now I am trying to focus on getting healthy, getting fit and eating right. The weight is starting to come off, but is coming off soooooo slowly. But hey, it's finally coming off. I'm hoping once I build a little base muscle maybe my body will start to burn fat more efficiently.

Thank you for the tips, your comment makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate it!