Lifting/eating question

christinecoffeebean

Hi everyone! Excuse my ignorance, but I'm in need of some help. I've managed to lose 15kgs eating at a calorie deficit and doing cardio. Wanting to lose another 5-10 kgs, I've now switched up my routine to also include strength training as I am "skinny fat".My goal is to change my body composition by losing the last kgs of fat and increasing my muscle mass to achieve definition. But in regards to eating, isn't this a bit of a contradiction? To gain muscle, I need to eat more to sustain me but to shred the fat I need to be at deficit.... What exactly do I need to be doing here?

Currently consuming 1200-1300 calories per day. Thanks in advance

arditarose

What you want to do is SAVE muscle mass as you lose the last bit of fat. So really you're not building muscle in this deficit. Some obese beginners can do this but for the most part, we shouldn't expect it. If you are close to goal you might want to up your calories so you are only losing .5 lbs per week, hit your protein goal, lift heavy. The goal at this point is to save lbm.

eileensofianmushinfine

i don't know how to explain it, but my trainer has me on 1500 calories. I'm losing an average of 1/2 pound per week -- and toning muscles. I can't tell if I've gained more muscle or toned what was already there, but with the heavy lifting I'm doing I'm starting to see some serious muscle definition.

malibu927

Except for newbie gains, you won't gain muscle in a calorie deficit, but you will help maintain it.

arditarose

eileensofianmushinfine wrote: »

i don't know how to explain it, but my trainer has me on 1500 calories. I'm losing an average of 1/2 pound per week -- and toning muscles. I can't tell if I've gained more muscle or toned what was already there, but with the heavy lifting I'm doing I'm starting to see some serious muscle definition.

You're losing fat, maintaining as much muscle as possible, and now it is revealing itself. You don't "tone" muscle or change the tone of a muscle.

beatua1

The easiest way to lose fat and gain muscle is to go through what's called bulking and cutting phases. Essentially you lift heavy all of the time, while bulking you eat at a small caloric surplus (often 200-300 calories but will vary based on person and goals) and while cutting you eat at a small caloric deficit (often 250 or so calories per day, but will again vary by person and amount of fat loss needed).

You cycle through this as many times as needed to get to your goals (weight and body fat percentage goals).

Example:
I start out at 200 lbs, 15% body fat (I have 30 lbs fat, 170 lbs LBM)
I cut for 10 weeks at 250 calorie deficit per day and lose 80% fat, 20% LBM
At the end of the cut I now weigh 195 with 26lbs fat and 169 lbs LBM

I then bulk for 10 weeks at 250 calorie surplus per day and gain 20% fat, 80% LBM
At the end of the bulk I now weigh 200 with 27 lbs fat and 173 lbs LBM

At the end of this cycle I am still 200lbs, but my body fat % is now 13.5% rather than 15% and I have gained 3lbs of muscle while shedding three pounds of fat.

Now if I repeat this process several times I can get my body fat percentage down to the goal I am looking for while staying at a similar weight (or losing some or gaining some again depending on a person's goals) and gain muscle.

For more details on bulking check this out http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1

Also, the three most important things to keep in check during these bulk/cut phases, IMO, is:
1. Calories in vs. calories out (CICO)
2. Eat enough protein (~.8g / lb of body weight)
3. Get in a good heavy full body progressive resistance lifting program

arditarose

beatua1 wrote: »

The easiest way to lose fat and gain muscle is to go through what's called bulking and cutting phases. Essentially you lift heavy all of the time, while bulking you eat at a small caloric surplus (often 200-300 calories but will vary based on person and goals) and while cutting you eat at a small caloric deficit (often 250 or so calories per day, but will again vary by person and amount of fat loss needed).

You cycle through this as many times as needed to get to your goals (weight and body fat percentage goals).

Example:
I start out at 200 lbs, 15% body fat (I have 30 lbs fat, 170 lbs LBM)
I cut for 10 weeks at 250 calorie deficit per day and lose 80% fat, 20% LBM
At the end of the cut I now weigh 195 with 26lbs fat and 169 lbs LBM

I then bulk for 10 weeks at 250 calorie surplus per day and gain 20% fat, 80% LBM
At the end of the bulk I now weigh 200 with 27 lbs fat and 173 lbs LBM

At the end of this cycle I am still 200lbs, but my body fat % is now 13.5% rather than 15% and I have gained 3lbs of muscle while shedding three pounds of fat.

Now if I repeat this process several times I can get my body fat percentage down to the goal I am looking for while staying at a similar weight (or losing some or gaining some again depending on a person's goals) and gain muscle.

For more details on bulking check this out http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1

Also, the three most important things to keep in check during these bulk/cut phases, IMO, is:
1. Calories in vs. calories out (CICO)
2. Eat enough protein (~.8g / lb of body weight)
3. Get in a good heavy full body progressive resistance lifting program

This assumes the OP is ready for a bulk. I don't believe that's the case as she still has fat she'd like to lose.

beatua1

arditarose wrote: »

beatua1 wrote: »

The easiest way to lose fat and gain muscle is to go through what's called bulking and cutting phases. Essentially you lift heavy all of the time, while bulking you eat at a small caloric surplus (often 200-300 calories but will vary based on person and goals) and while cutting you eat at a small caloric deficit (often 250 or so calories per day, but will again vary by person and amount of fat loss needed).

You cycle through this as many times as needed to get to your goals (weight and body fat percentage goals).

Example:
I start out at 200 lbs, 15% body fat (I have 30 lbs fat, 170 lbs LBM)
I cut for 10 weeks at 250 calorie deficit per day and lose 80% fat, 20% LBM
At the end of the cut I now weigh 195 with 26lbs fat and 169 lbs LBM

I then bulk for 10 weeks at 250 calorie surplus per day and gain 20% fat, 80% LBM
At the end of the bulk I now weigh 200 with 27 lbs fat and 173 lbs LBM

At the end of this cycle I am still 200lbs, but my body fat % is now 13.5% rather than 15% and I have gained 3lbs of muscle while shedding three pounds of fat.

Now if I repeat this process several times I can get my body fat percentage down to the goal I am looking for while staying at a similar weight (or losing some or gaining some again depending on a person's goals) and gain muscle.

For more details on bulking check this out http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1

Also, the three most important things to keep in check during these bulk/cut phases, IMO, is:
1. Calories in vs. calories out (CICO)
2. Eat enough protein (~.8g / lb of body weight)
3. Get in a good heavy full body progressive resistance lifting program

This assumes the OP is ready for a bulk. I don't believe that's the case as she still has fat she'd like to lose.

No it doesn't, I started the example with a cut because she said she wanted to lose more weight. But at the end of the day if one wants to lose fat and gain muscle this is the best way to do it. If one wants to lose a lot more fat than muscle than cuts should be longer than bulks, but it is still cuts and bulks at the end of the day.

arditarose

beatua1 wrote: »

arditarose wrote: »

beatua1 wrote: »

The easiest way to lose fat and gain muscle is to go through what's called bulking and cutting phases. Essentially you lift heavy all of the time, while bulking you eat at a small caloric surplus (often 200-300 calories but will vary based on person and goals) and while cutting you eat at a small caloric deficit (often 250 or so calories per day, but will again vary by person and amount of fat loss needed).

You cycle through this as many times as needed to get to your goals (weight and body fat percentage goals).

Example:
I start out at 200 lbs, 15% body fat (I have 30 lbs fat, 170 lbs LBM)
I cut for 10 weeks at 250 calorie deficit per day and lose 80% fat, 20% LBM
At the end of the cut I now weigh 195 with 26lbs fat and 169 lbs LBM

I then bulk for 10 weeks at 250 calorie surplus per day and gain 20% fat, 80% LBM
At the end of the bulk I now weigh 200 with 27 lbs fat and 173 lbs LBM

At the end of this cycle I am still 200lbs, but my body fat % is now 13.5% rather than 15% and I have gained 3lbs of muscle while shedding three pounds of fat.

Now if I repeat this process several times I can get my body fat percentage down to the goal I am looking for while staying at a similar weight (or losing some or gaining some again depending on a person's goals) and gain muscle.

For more details on bulking check this out http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1

Also, the three most important things to keep in check during these bulk/cut phases, IMO, is:
1. Calories in vs. calories out (CICO)
2. Eat enough protein (~.8g / lb of body weight)
3. Get in a good heavy full body progressive resistance lifting program

This assumes the OP is ready for a bulk. I don't believe that's the case as she still has fat she'd like to lose.

No it doesn't, I started the example with a cut because she said she wanted to lose more weight. But at the end of the day if one wants to lose fat and gain muscle this is the best way to do it. If one wants to lose a lot more fat than muscle than cuts should be longer than bulks, but it is still cuts and bulks at the end of the day.

Right, which is step number two for her. Right now she needs to lift in a deficit to lose fat and maintain LBM.

beatua1

arditarose wrote: »

beatua1 wrote: »

arditarose wrote: »

beatua1 wrote: »

The easiest way to lose fat and gain muscle is to go through what's called bulking and cutting phases. Essentially you lift heavy all of the time, while bulking you eat at a small caloric surplus (often 200-300 calories but will vary based on person and goals) and while cutting you eat at a small caloric deficit (often 250 or so calories per day, but will again vary by person and amount of fat loss needed).

You cycle through this as many times as needed to get to your goals (weight and body fat percentage goals).

Example:
I start out at 200 lbs, 15% body fat (I have 30 lbs fat, 170 lbs LBM)
I cut for 10 weeks at 250 calorie deficit per day and lose 80% fat, 20% LBM
At the end of the cut I now weigh 195 with 26lbs fat and 169 lbs LBM

I then bulk for 10 weeks at 250 calorie surplus per day and gain 20% fat, 80% LBM
At the end of the bulk I now weigh 200 with 27 lbs fat and 173 lbs LBM

At the end of this cycle I am still 200lbs, but my body fat % is now 13.5% rather than 15% and I have gained 3lbs of muscle while shedding three pounds of fat.

Now if I repeat this process several times I can get my body fat percentage down to the goal I am looking for while staying at a similar weight (or losing some or gaining some again depending on a person's goals) and gain muscle.

For more details on bulking check this out http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10049766/bulking-a-complete-guide-for-beginners/p1

Also, the three most important things to keep in check during these bulk/cut phases, IMO, is:
1. Calories in vs. calories out (CICO)
2. Eat enough protein (~.8g / lb of body weight)
3. Get in a good heavy full body progressive resistance lifting program

This assumes the OP is ready for a bulk. I don't believe that's the case as she still has fat she'd like to lose.

No it doesn't, I started the example with a cut because she said she wanted to lose more weight. But at the end of the day if one wants to lose fat and gain muscle this is the best way to do it. If one wants to lose a lot more fat than muscle than cuts should be longer than bulks, but it is still cuts and bulks at the end of the day.

Right, which is step number two for her. Right now she needs to lift in a deficit to lose fat and maintain LBM.

Agreed!

christinecoffeebean

Wow lots of mixed opinions! I think I will lift in deficit and see what happens. Surely if I am using my muscles and not just doing cardio, I will maintain whatever muscle I currently have? Considering increasing my calories a bit though

arditarose

christinecoffeebean wrote: »

Wow lots of mixed opinions! I think I will lift in deficit and see what happens. Surely if I am using my muscles and not just doing cardio, I will maintain whatever muscle I currently have? Considering increasing my calories a bit though

Yep. All of my progress pics are from lifting in a deficit. I have not bulked yet. As you get close to goal, within 10-15 lbs, it is nice to shoot for .5 lbs of loss per week. That will also help with saving LBM as well.

adamcourt

happy to help hun keep low steady cardio up and yes once u add in weights u will have to increase food and yes u will lose bodyfat and increase musclemass

adamcourt

check out Kris Gethin's 12-Week Muscle-Building Trainer: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kris-gethins-12-week-muscle-building-trainer.html that's will have everything u need to know if u follow it step by step u hit u goal be amazed how u look in 12 weeks time

christinecoffeebean

arditarose wrote: »

christinecoffeebean wrote: »

Wow lots of mixed opinions! I think I will lift in deficit and see what happens. Surely if I am using my muscles and not just doing cardio, I will maintain whatever muscle I currently have? Considering increasing my calories a bit though

Yep. All of my progress pics are from lifting in a deficit. I have not bulked yet. As you get close to goal, within 10-15 lbs, it is nice to shoot for .5 lbs of loss per week. That will also help with saving LBM as well.

I've added you! Would love to see your pics

beatua1

christinecoffeebean wrote: »

Wow lots of mixed opinions! I think I will lift in deficit and see what happens. Surely if I am using my muscles and not just doing cardio, I will maintain whatever muscle I currently have? Considering increasing my calories a bit though

Just a note, arditarose and I agree on our advice. I was specifically answering the question you wrote "My goal is to change my body composition by losing the last kgs of fat and increasing my muscle mass to achieve definition."

To lose fat and gain muscle you need a cut/bulk cycle. You should cut first if you're primary goal is to lose weight, but if you want to gain muscle at some point you will need to bulk.

By the way, if you just want to gain strength you can do that by lifting heavy while in a deficit, you will gain strength, but not muscle. Then when you are at goal weight if you are happy about your muscle definition / level you can stop there.

christinecoffeebean

beatua1 wrote: »

christinecoffeebean wrote: »

Wow lots of mixed opinions! I think I will lift in deficit and see what happens. Surely if I am using my muscles and not just doing cardio, I will maintain whatever muscle I currently have? Considering increasing my calories a bit though

Just a note, arditarose and I agree on our advice. I was specifically answering the question you wrote "My goal is to change my body composition by losing the last kgs of fat and increasing my muscle mass to achieve definition."

To lose fat and gain muscle you need a cut/bulk cycle. You should cut first if you're primary goal is to lose weight, but if you want to gain muscle at some point you will need to bulk.

By the way, if you just want to gain strength you can do that by lifting heavy while in a deficit, you will gain strength, but not muscle. Then when you are at goal weight if you are happy about your muscle definition / level you can stop there.

Thank you, what you say is actually very logical so I will try cutting first. Taking new pictures and new measurements tonight to mark my new starting point