why should I stick with OHP?
jacksonpt
Posts: 10,413 Member
I started out a few years ago with 5x5, then transitioned to 5/3/1, so I've been doing OHP as part of my routine for as long as I've been lifting seriously.
As I move into my off season and back into lifting more heavily/regularly, I'm thinking about dropping OHP, at least as a primary lift. If I'm being honest, then yes... part of it is because it's a hard lift that I don't especially like. But part of it is also that it's not important to me. Not from an ego standpoint nor in terms of functional goals.
I guess my question is this - how incomplete is a routine if it doesn't have OHP as a focal point?
While this isn't carved in stone, I'm planning to run something like this through the winter -
Monday - bench (5/3/1, BBB) + shoulders (possibly including DB press)
Tuesday - deads (5/3/1, BBB) + leg accessories
Thursday - squat (5/3/1, BBB) + leg accessories
Friday - paused bench + back
Thoughts?
As I move into my off season and back into lifting more heavily/regularly, I'm thinking about dropping OHP, at least as a primary lift. If I'm being honest, then yes... part of it is because it's a hard lift that I don't especially like. But part of it is also that it's not important to me. Not from an ego standpoint nor in terms of functional goals.
I guess my question is this - how incomplete is a routine if it doesn't have OHP as a focal point?
While this isn't carved in stone, I'm planning to run something like this through the winter -
Monday - bench (5/3/1, BBB) + shoulders (possibly including DB press)
Tuesday - deads (5/3/1, BBB) + leg accessories
Thursday - squat (5/3/1, BBB) + leg accessories
Friday - paused bench + back
Thoughts?
0
Replies
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I think you're fine not having it in there as a "primary" lift as long as you're doing something else which it looks like you're drying to do with DB press. I'd actually throw in pull-ups even though it's more back than shoulders.0
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It's perfectly fine. I rarely do it now and I never did it regularly (same with DL). It's your body, your goals and your routine. Suit it to your personal taste0
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Echoing the others.
As long as you add in some type of shoulder routine you'll be fine.0 -
Swapping overhead barbell press for dumbbell press is a wash, they are the same thing. If you are going to quit doing a lift because it is hard, you should really quit.
Anyways, if you are going to keep bench as a primary lift, just make sure you do enough shoulder and back work to keep pace. You don't have to do overhead press, but you still have to build the muscles.0 -
nordlead2005 wrote: »Swapping overhead barbell press for dumbbell press is a wash, they are the same thing. If you are going to quit doing a lift because it is hard, you should really quit.
Anyways, if you are going to keep bench as a primary lift, just make sure you do enough shoulder and back work to keep pace. You don't have to do overhead press, but you still have to build the muscles.
"Have to "?0 -
More than one way to skin a cat ...
OHP isn't the only option for shoulder work. If you still want some, pick another exercise and carry on.
If the rest of your routine is well rounded ( like your suggested ), the other areas the OHP works should continue to progress sufficiently, if perhaps a bit slower.
You can always try a switch for a month or two, and then go back if you don't like the results.0 -
You don't 'have to' do anything. No one is holding a gun to your head. No one can force you to like OHP. I know I'm not a fan of it either. However, I recognise it has a place in a well rounded routine so I do it.
I have also given some thought as to why I don't like it. It boils down to it being one of the least rewarding lifts for me, really freaking hard with agonisingly slow progress. A year of Stronglifts and I am only now lifting the bar, plus the two smallest weights making it 22.5 kgs.
I am now moving on to PHUL (thanks to arditarose for telling me about this programme). While I'd love to drop OHP I can't really think of an alternative push movement that is close to OHP except dumbells OHP which, as has been pointed out above, is a wash with barbell OHP.
So, bottom line, no one is forcing me to do this horrid lift, but I have come to terms with why I don't like it, but still need to incorporate it into my routine in order to get the body shape I want.0 -
Mistraal1981 wrote: »You don't 'have to' do anything. No one is holding a gun to your head. No one can force you to like OHP. I know I'm not a fan of it either. However, I recognise it has a place in a well rounded routine so I do it.
I have also given some thought as to why I don't like it. It boils down to it being one of the least rewarding lifts for me, really freaking hard with agonisingly slow progress. A year of Stronglifts and I am only now lifting the bar, plus the two smallest weights making it 22.5 kgs.
I am now moving on to PHUL (thanks to arditarose for telling me about this programme). While I'd love to drop OHP I can't really think of an alternative push movement that is close to OHP except dumbells OHP which, as has been pointed out above, is a wash with barbell OHP.
So, bottom line, no one is forcing me to do this horrid lift, but I have come to terms with why I don't like it, but still need to incorporate it into my routine in order to get the body shape I want.
If you are looking for an alternative, this one might be an option. I've used it a bit in the past, just for something different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR38_ZKKUCs 0 -
Nice one thanks jemhh.
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I loathe OHP, but I do it because it's one of the best lifts to help me build a big bench press. I curse the lift the whole time I'm doing it, but I do it. It's a weak area of mine and I know if I'm going to hit my goal of a 200 lb bench press this year I have to strengthen that weakness. If you have evaluated your goals, strengths and weaknesses and you have decided that OHP is not necessary, there is no reason you can't substitute something else.0
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Thanks for posting that video @jemhh. I'm running into a shoulder issue and was going to write a similar post asking for more shoulder exercises other than OHP. I actually love OHP because I started hardly being able to press anything (I think I had trouble with the 20-lb fixed barbell when I started) and worked my way up to 70 pounds. So I got pretty proud of my OHPing! But now I have a pain in my left shoulder and can barely press the bar. I've been looking for some shoulder exercises that don't force me to press directly upwards. Other ideas welcome...0
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I'd seen that exercise before, but only with the end of the barbell in a swivel mount. It didn't occur to me it'd be easy to set up without one.
I'll have to give it a try when I get back into lifting in a couple of weeks. My shoulders popped and cracked all the time doing OHP. Hurt - like the joint was popping a little out and back into the socket.0 -
My shoulder hurts when I use dumbbells for ohp . When I use a barbell I do a better job of pointing my elbows forward so I usually do it that way. That video is what made it click in my head that the barbell is a better fit for me for ohp.0
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mamasmaltz3 wrote: »I loathe OHP, but I do it because it's one of the best lifts to help me build a big bench press. I curse the lift the whole time I'm doing it, but I do it. It's a weak area of mine and I know if I'm going to hit my goal of a 200 lb bench press this year I have to strengthen that weakness. If you have evaluated your goals, strengths and weaknesses and you have decided that OHP is not necessary, there is no reason you can't substitute something else.
This is what I've heard as well. I continue to train it to strengthen my bench.
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nordlead2005 wrote: »Swapping overhead barbell press for dumbbell press is a wash, they are the same thing. If you are going to quit doing a lift because it is hard, you should really quit.
Anyways, if you are going to keep bench as a primary lift, just make sure you do enough shoulder and back work to keep pace. You don't have to do overhead press, but you still have to build the muscles.
"Have to "?
Ok, so you don't have to. You can go exercise your chest only and completely ignore your shoulders and back. No one is going to force you. However, muscle imbalance leading to pain is a real thing.0 -
Just a curious question in relation to your thread, but what about OHP makes it hard/disliked? It's basically the simplest and easiest of the compound lifts in my opinion. I look forward to OHP day in my 5/3/1 rotation because of it (a break from the brutal exercises). Simply curious.0
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Just a curious question in relation to your thread, but what about OHP makes it hard/disliked? It's basically the simplest and easiest of the compound lifts in my opinion. I look forward to OHP day in my 5/3/1 rotation because of it (a break from the brutal exercises). Simply curious.
I hate it because I'm no longer making gains frequently on it so progress seems like it's never happening. Which gains are happening, they are just so slow it feels like never. Makes me feel weak, and that makes me feel angry, lol.0 -
Just a curious question in relation to your thread, but what about OHP makes it hard/disliked? It's basically the simplest and easiest of the compound lifts in my opinion. I look forward to OHP day in my 5/3/1 rotation because of it (a break from the brutal exercises). Simply curious.
Well, for me deadlift is the easiest of the compound lifts, so that's what I look forward to. The only limiting factor so far for me with deadlifts is my grip. I actually prefer deficit deadlifts because it feels something other than my hands are getting some work.
OHP on the other hand is a pain in the neck. It hurts some when I do the lift, and like a fair number of women I can't ever increase the weight by 5lbs at a time. I don't have fractional weights and members aren't allowed to bring their own weight equipment to my gym anyway, so I end up increasing reps for what seems like forever until I can manage the original reps with a 5 lb increase. Oh, and I should mention that the slightest distraction causes me to get the bar out of balance somehow (strength imbalance maybe?) and fail in a dramatic way. But, it has been functionally useful so I kept up with it.0 -
Strict ohp is not a favorite exercise, however I enjoy push press. When I went two training cycles without any overhead work, I specifically asked for it back. So I just remind myself on the days I don't want to do it that I asked for it.0
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Once I switched to 531 my like for ohp increased a lot. 531 sets (plus pyramiding back down) are much more fun than straight sets IMO.0
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mamasmaltz3 wrote: »Just a curious question in relation to your thread, but what about OHP makes it hard/disliked? It's basically the simplest and easiest of the compound lifts in my opinion. I look forward to OHP day in my 5/3/1 rotation because of it (a break from the brutal exercises). Simply curious.
I hate it because I'm no longer making gains frequently on it so progress seems like it's never happening. Which gains are happening, they are just so slow it feels like never. Makes me feel weak, and that makes me feel angry, lol.
Well of course, but that's to be expected. At this point I am only adding 10-15lbs to my OHP per year. It's rough but the lift itself is simple and straightforward. And you recover fast so it only takes me half the time to do my sets versus something like DL or squat.0 -
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mamasmaltz3 wrote: »Just a curious question in relation to your thread, but what about OHP makes it hard/disliked? It's basically the simplest and easiest of the compound lifts in my opinion. I look forward to OHP day in my 5/3/1 rotation because of it (a break from the brutal exercises). Simply curious.
I hate it because I'm no longer making gains frequently on it so progress seems like it's never happening. Which gains are happening, they are just so slow it feels like never. Makes me feel weak, and that makes me feel angry, lol.
Well of course, but that's to be expected. At this point I am only adding 10-15lbs to my OHP per year. It's rough but the lift itself is simple and straightforward. And you recover fast so it only takes me half the time to do my sets versus something like DL or squat.
Yeah, my gains are similar, probably a little less. But, like I said up thread, they are weakness of mine which is exactly why I include them. My shoulders burn out super quick and take longer to recover between sets. They are very straight forward lift. It's either going up or it's not.
I was stoked the other day to get 100x6 for a strict press. At the beginning of the year that was my 1RM. So, it's working and I will keep doing them because, bench, but I'll cuss every set I have to do them, lol.
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My shoulder hurts when I use dumbbells for ohp . When I use a barbell I do a better job of pointing my elbows forward so I usually do it that way. That video is what made it click in my head that the barbell is a better fit for me for ohp.
That's unusual. Generally speaking, a db variation of a lift is easier on my shoulders that it's barbell version. I can only guess that you're trying too hard to mimic the path of the barbell instead of using the more linear path that dbs would allow you to use. That's a complete guess tho, as this is an unusual occurrence for me0 -
My shoulder hurts when I use dumbbells for ohp . When I use a barbell I do a better job of pointing my elbows forward so I usually do it that way. That video is what made it click in my head that the barbell is a better fit for me for ohp.
That's unusual. Generally speaking, a db variation of a lift is easier on my shoulders that it's barbell version. I can only guess that you're trying too hard to mimic the path of the barbell instead of using the more linear path that dbs would allow you to use. That's a complete guess tho, as this is an unusual occurrence for me
I agree, that is unusual. DB presses of any sort are easier on my shoulder too and it's typically what most PT's I've known have suggested if there an issue with pressing with a barbell.
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mamasmaltz3 wrote: »mamasmaltz3 wrote: »Just a curious question in relation to your thread, but what about OHP makes it hard/disliked? It's basically the simplest and easiest of the compound lifts in my opinion. I look forward to OHP day in my 5/3/1 rotation because of it (a break from the brutal exercises). Simply curious.
I hate it because I'm no longer making gains frequently on it so progress seems like it's never happening. Which gains are happening, they are just so slow it feels like never. Makes me feel weak, and that makes me feel angry, lol.
Well of course, but that's to be expected. At this point I am only adding 10-15lbs to my OHP per year. It's rough but the lift itself is simple and straightforward. And you recover fast so it only takes me half the time to do my sets versus something like DL or squat.
Yeah, my gains are similar, probably a little less. But, like I said up thread, they are weakness of mine which is exactly why I include them. My shoulders burn out super quick and take longer to recover between sets. They are very straight forward lift. It's either going up or it's not.
I was stoked the other day to get 100x6 for a strict press. At the beginning of the year that was my 1RM. So, it's working and I will keep doing them because, bench, but I'll cuss every set I have to do them, lol.
100x6, that is very impressive for an XX. Nice work.0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »My shoulder hurts when I use dumbbells for ohp . When I use a barbell I do a better job of pointing my elbows forward so I usually do it that way. That video is what made it click in my head that the barbell is a better fit for me for ohp.
That's unusual. Generally speaking, a db variation of a lift is easier on my shoulders that it's barbell version. I can only guess that you're trying too hard to mimic the path of the barbell instead of using the more linear path that dbs would allow you to use. That's a complete guess tho, as this is an unusual occurrence for me
I agree, that is unusual. DB presses of any sort are easier on my shoulder too and it's typically what most PT's I've known have suggested if there an issue with pressing with a barbell.
Hmm. I started having the problem at home after having used dumbbells at the gym without any issues. My dumbbells at home are handles and plates. The handles stick out pretty far past the plates. I wonder if that is affecting how I hold or move them. I sometimes think I am going to brain myself with them when they are near my face (hello skullcrushers) so it is possible I'm moving weirdly with them.0 -
Just a curious question in relation to your thread, but what about OHP makes it hard/disliked? It's basically the simplest and easiest of the compound lifts in my opinion. I look forward to OHP day in my 5/3/1 rotation because of it (a break from the brutal exercises). Simply curious.
I struggle with the technique. Part of it is me just not having a good feel for the movement, and part of it is old, nagging shoulder and back problems.0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »My shoulder hurts when I use dumbbells for ohp . When I use a barbell I do a better job of pointing my elbows forward so I usually do it that way. That video is what made it click in my head that the barbell is a better fit for me for ohp.
That's unusual. Generally speaking, a db variation of a lift is easier on my shoulders that it's barbell version. I can only guess that you're trying too hard to mimic the path of the barbell instead of using the more linear path that dbs would allow you to use. That's a complete guess tho, as this is an unusual occurrence for me
I agree, that is unusual. DB presses of any sort are easier on my shoulder too and it's typically what most PT's I've known have suggested if there an issue with pressing with a barbell.
Hmm. I started having the problem at home after having used dumbbells at the gym without any issues. My dumbbells at home are handles and plates. The handles stick out pretty far past the plates. I wonder if that is affecting how I hold or move them. I sometimes think I am going to brain myself with them when they are near my face (hello skullcrushers) so it is possible I'm moving weirdly with them.
If it was okay in the gym with standard DB I wonder if you are subconsciously adjusting them not to whack yourself and you're getting a funny angle or something.
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