Everyone is right, everyone is wrong
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senecarr
Posts: 5,377 Member
So, having looked through an old thread or two recently linked, I had a bit of an epiphany.
I think some disagreements that happen have to do with looking at things at fundamentally different levels of analysis.
For example
Person A: Advertising is causing the obesity epidemic. Here, I even have solid research that the more hours of TV someone, particularly children watches, the more chance they'll have of being overweight. They use it to advertise sweetened drinks, and their consumption has been shown absolutely to correlate with obesity.
Person B: NO, NO! It is all, purely personal choice. No commercial came into anyone's house and put food in their mouth. Calories in and calories out are all that matter, regardless of what commercial you watch.
Oddly, they're both right. Person A is looking at the problem in terms of a macro-, societal level. This is the kind of thinking a lot of policy research gets done at it because it is the level we as a society can collectively change.
Person B is also correct, looking at the problem at the micro-, individual level, and arguably has the stance that is most important to someone being on MFP looking to lose weight. Anyone here is looking to lose weight for themselves, not set national policy.
I think some disagreements that happen have to do with looking at things at fundamentally different levels of analysis.
For example
Person A: Advertising is causing the obesity epidemic. Here, I even have solid research that the more hours of TV someone, particularly children watches, the more chance they'll have of being overweight. They use it to advertise sweetened drinks, and their consumption has been shown absolutely to correlate with obesity.
Person B: NO, NO! It is all, purely personal choice. No commercial came into anyone's house and put food in their mouth. Calories in and calories out are all that matter, regardless of what commercial you watch.
Oddly, they're both right. Person A is looking at the problem in terms of a macro-, societal level. This is the kind of thinking a lot of policy research gets done at it because it is the level we as a society can collectively change.
Person B is also correct, looking at the problem at the micro-, individual level, and arguably has the stance that is most important to someone being on MFP looking to lose weight. Anyone here is looking to lose weight for themselves, not set national policy.
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Replies
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Oddly, they're both right. Person A is looking at the problem in terms of a macro-, societal level. This is the kind of thinking a lot of policy research gets done at it because it is the level we as a society can collectively change.
Person B is also correct, looking at the problem at the micro-, individual level, and arguably has the stance that is most important to someone being on MFP looking to lose weight. Anyone here is looking to lose weight for themselves, not set national policy.
Sure, but understanding your environment and what's influencing your behaviors is hugely important for long term success, in my opinion. Very few people have the discipline needed to do what's good for them day in and day out when life gets in the way or their focus shifts. Anything you can do that makes doing what's good for you the easier, default option is a huge step towards lifelong fitness. Those sorts of changes are almost always external.
Awareness is good.
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Great post.
Unfortunately when these discussions come up on MFP most people are so stuck on their interpretation being the right one, we lose sight of the actual issue being discussed. Hence frequent dumpster fires.0 -
If everyone would just agree that I'm always right, we could cut out all the drama.0
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »Oddly, they're both right. Person A is looking at the problem in terms of a macro-, societal level. This is the kind of thinking a lot of policy research gets done at it because it is the level we as a society can collectively change.
Person B is also correct, looking at the problem at the micro-, individual level, and arguably has the stance that is most important to someone being on MFP looking to lose weight. Anyone here is looking to lose weight for themselves, not set national policy.
Sure, but understanding your environment and what's influencing your behaviors is hugely important for long term success, in my opinion. Very few people have the discipline needed to do what's good for them day in and day out when life gets in the way or their focus shifts. Anything you can do that makes doing what's good for you the easier, default option is a huge step towards lifelong fitness. Those sorts of changes are almost always external.
Awareness is good.
I agree with this. Ignoring the role environment plays seems counterproductive to overcoming it.
Plus, there are people here who would like to see societal changes that would help stop the rising obesity statistics.0 -
If someone told me that McDonald's ads make them feel compelled to eat McDonald's, I'd ask them to look deeper into the issue, possibly get psychological help. Saying advertising is shown to affect consumers doesn't really change any of the personal issues with food they'll need to overcome, but sure, being aware and thinking to yourself, "this is an ad, it is trying to get me to do something, so why am I letting it decide for me?" can help as a rationalization.AlabasterVerve wrote: »Oddly, they're both right. Person A is looking at the problem in terms of a macro-, societal level. This is the kind of thinking a lot of policy research gets done at it because it is the level we as a society can collectively change.
Person B is also correct, looking at the problem at the micro-, individual level, and arguably has the stance that is most important to someone being on MFP looking to lose weight. Anyone here is looking to lose weight for themselves, not set national policy.
Sure, but understanding your environment and what's influencing your behaviors is hugely important for long term success, in my opinion. Very few people have the discipline needed to do what's good for them day in and day out when life gets in the way or their focus shifts. Anything you can do that makes doing what's good for you the easier, default option is a huge step towards lifelong fitness. Those sorts of changes are almost always external.
Awareness is good.
Myself, I've mentioned a few times that (while I've not called it this) at the policy thinking level, amount of food choice is actually an issue. Studies have shown that the more food choices, the greater the tendency to overeat. If at the personal level you take away you need to consider if all that food is just making you regret that you can't have everything all at once instead of real hunger, that's good. If you're saying all those food choices mean you can't help yourself, that's bad.0 -
ceoverturf wrote: »If everyone would just agree that I'm always right, we could cut out all the drama.
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I've noticed that Lemurcat and I eat very similarly and like the same food-related authors but are usually on opposite sides of debates.0
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Oddly, they're both right. Person A is looking at the problem in terms of a macro-, societal level. This is the kind of thinking a lot of policy research gets done at it because it is the level we as a society can collectively change.
Person B is also correct, looking at the problem at the micro-, individual level, and arguably has the stance that is most important to someone being on MFP looking to lose weight. Anyone here is looking to lose weight for themselves, not set national policy.
Yeah, I've had a similar thought on occasion. Agree completely -- just two different conversations.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Oddly, they're both right. Person A is looking at the problem in terms of a macro-, societal level. This is the kind of thinking a lot of policy research gets done at it because it is the level we as a society can collectively change.
Person B is also correct, looking at the problem at the micro-, individual level, and arguably has the stance that is most important to someone being on MFP looking to lose weight. Anyone here is looking to lose weight for themselves, not set national policy.
Sure, but understanding your environment and what's influencing your behaviors is hugely important for long term success, in my opinion. Very few people have the discipline needed to do what's good for them day in and day out when life gets in the way or their focus shifts. Anything you can do that makes doing what's good for you the easier, default option is a huge step towards lifelong fitness. Those sorts of changes are almost always external.
Awareness is good.
Agree -- awareness is good, but so is feeling empowered.
Saying that you CAN'T change things because the food is too tasty or "addictive" or you are surrounded (at work, due to church functions or whatever, at the grocery store, etc.) with temptation doesn't help. It's an interesting a worthwhile conversation, why the population is so fat vs. the past (although I don't think difficult to answer), but ultimately certain aspects of the environment just are, so we have to live with them.
I'm NOT talking about what we choose to have at home or what habits we choose to develop -- that's part of making choices on the individual level, the empowerment aspect.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »I've noticed that Lemurcat and I eat very similarly and like the same food-related authors but are usually on opposite sides of debates.
I'm not sure which debates? I know we disagree on the meaning of "addiction," but I really don't want to go there today.
Public policy? I rarely discuss public policy here although I'm not opposed to doing so.
I do tend to focus more on the individual choice aspect when giving advise because that's what I think we can control the most. That doesn't mean that I reject the environmental contributors to the overall obesity rate. In particular, I think the barriers or disincentives to walking in the US play a role, and that losing weight/staying in shape may be easier for me because I live in a city (and in a particular area of that city).
Or do you mean that I prefer biking and running to yoga? ;-)0
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